War with Iran.

[Barely-injured 0]

Yes more of lets teach those uncivilized barbarians how to live.

Plus lets free the poor oppressed people.

Plus lets prevent them from getting WMDs.

sounds very familiar......

[jakerod 254]

I get the point.

You are suggesting that riots in Iran are somehow worse than riots anywhere else.

That riots in Israel are nice riots. That riots in L.A. and New Orleans are peaceful, gentle riots. That the Swiss police don't shoot political protesters in the back while they are running away.

People were killed in a riot? Well that invalidates their entire system of government then doesn't it. That completely erases the last 40 years of cultural, political, ecomonic, military and social advances for the population.

Wait a minute..no it doesn't.

How many other nations in the middle east do women even have the right to vote, let alone protest about the results of an election?

You see if you hate someone enough, you can take all the best things about their society and portray them as poo.

Iran is a country with a lively and progressive democracy. It's population is motivated and involved in it.

Can you imagine any party in my country getting 64% of the vote? They can't even get the 34% the losing party in Iran gets.

98% turnout!!! This is a country who's government means something to them. Who believe in the system.

Hey you asked a question and I answered. I'm sure that it is also quite common among democratic nations to take those protesters somewhere and shoot them in the head right?

For the record I am not totally against Iran, I just see a lot of flaws in their system.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

I don't see any trouble if Iran really develops its own nuclear weapons. It has the right to have an effective way of defence.

There is no right to development of Nuclear weapons.

Oh and the US and Russia last I heard signed yet another treaty to dismantle another few thousand nukes.

Big Mac has it right - there is a program to dismantle warheads and use them as the fuel in Fast Breeder Reactors.

The ignorant masses just don't know all of this - keep drinking the nationalistic koolaids and let engineers do their jobs.

With GOM covered in oil and a shit-ton of methane gas rendering any life in the ocean floor extinct due to depleting oxygen levels, we might see Civilian Nuclear energy generation get a second kick start, which in turn, as fishy as it may sound, decrease the risk of a nuclear war because we can use depleted uranium, we can use almost any type of fuel in these reactors. India is building Thorium reactors and is quite successful at it. Coal has Thorium - but you didn't know that, did you.

Related article on Gulf of Mexico: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65L6IA20100622

Edited June 25, 2010 by Iroquois Pliskin

[Jackson006 10]

@ Walker

Do you think that Israel is going to contact down town Riyadh and let them know that they will be sending a Sqn of IAF over there airspace, for the purpose of bombing the chit out of Iran’s nuclear power plants. Ever herd of the catch phrase loose lips sink ships.

This is how it will play out if Israel decides to carry it out; the world will go to bed that night wake up the next morning to news that Iran’s nuclear plants have been decimated end of news bulletin.

The only people that will know before it happens will be the Israel hierarchy and the IAF.

2/4RAR

[echo1 0]

Well, they did it to Osirak, and they can do it again...

[SEALVI 10]

Baff1, you keep saying "in my country." What country would that actually be?

[spooky lynx 73]

Well considering they have ties to terrorist groups who don't like the US very much or Russia either for that matter, I have a problem with them developing nukes, chemical agents, or God forbid biological agents. No one has a right to build WMDs and call it defense. There is nothing defensive about any other those 3 things. Oh and the US and Russia last I heard signed yet another treaty to dismantle another few thousand nukes. Honestly though there are way too many countries with nuclear weapons, nobody wants a country who's governed by religion instead laws in control of them.

Iran supports Hamas and Hisballah, both of them hadn't said any words about Russia or Caucasus region in the last 4-5 years. These are mainly so-called "anti-western" organisations with local goals. And speaking about terrorist groups, if you look at the times of first and second Chechen wars, OSCE, EU and US government supported chechen gangs:rolleyes: Also, US fully supported Kurdish separatist organisations in Iraq. Moreover, look at those, who helped Bin Laden, Taliban and albanian terrorist gangs to raise. So, if you compare this facts with the amount of military operations against other nations even from mid 80-s till nowdays, who has no right to have WMD?:rolleyes:

@Spooky, the way Iran feels about the U.S., it feels about Russia too.

And while I agree that nuclear/military parity among rivals brings peace between them, it does not bring peace between rival nations that have them and rival nations that do not.

Quite the opposite,it frees the WMD equiped countries to attack those without them. In the case of Iran, this means all it's neighbours would be in direct danger from it. Including allies that none of us wish to lose.

There are a lot of iranian students studying in the universities of my city. So, I shouldn't say that Iran feels about Russia the same that it feels about the country, that treats Iran as land of mad evil fanatics just because iranians expelled pro-western shakh and his government. So, i fully agree with you about the countries that equipped with WMD and attack those who hasn't it (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan etc.).

[*LK1* 10]

Well considering they have ties to terrorist groups who don't like the US very much or Russia either for that matter, I have a problem with them developing nukes, chemical agents, or God forbid biological agents. No one has a right to build WMDs and call it defense.

well considering how many times the US government has supported the terrorists around the world,before 11/9 and in some cases even after 11/9,this type of observation you made is a bit strange to me. you should give me your definition of the world terrorism i should give you mine...anyway your point of view is normal and acceptable.you are american and your problem is to stop the american's enemies trying to gain nukes.and the iranians has all the right to continues their program since we,as western governments,we started to piss off iran since 80 years ago.and from their point of view the only nation which has used the atomic bomb during a conflict is the same nation that now is talking to them "hey no guys...you are to much dangerous with that on your hands...".isn't fun?:bounce3:

You can live in your la-la-la land till a nuke goes off somewhere in the suburbs of Paris, or better yet a cargo/tanker with said device in a port with oil refining facilities. We'll be laughing about Michael Jacksons being alive-jokes, no doubt.

seriusly guys, i have just question,do you gave an unconditional trust at the american/western media?i can't be so sure that the iran is pursuing a military atomic program.could be a big bullshit to justify a war at your eyes.like the weapons of mass destruction in iraq.which they never existed.if you want to meet a real weapon of mass destruction you had to follow the marines on fallujah :rolleyes: oh sorry but that's another story.

Iran is a very progressive society, I doubt there are as many countries in the world that have been reforming as fast as theirs. It would be a mistake to dismiss their country's government because of it's religion. A lot of people connotate muslim with medieval. Iran isn't Saudi. It's a progressive state. Arguably the most progressive democratic and free in the middle east. (It's a toss up between them and Israel I expect, both having enormous great gaping flaws that we could of course all spend hours picking apart).

Given the events of last year, that either says a lot about Iran's neighbors, or means nothing at all.

iran,as you many don't know, is a strange,authoritarian,muscular democracy.

and ahmadinejad is not saddam,this lastone was a dictator.you guys should stop your brainraping media for a second.you can simply use some source around the net to study the political insitutions of iran.you'll agree is not a regime,surely is not the most "democratic democracy" but once again our media are just demonizing a foreign country to manipulate the public opinion....:j:

if you want to know even milosevic was not a dictator since he was elected by the people...

and we are supposed to leave in countries were the media are free and pluralistic?funny..

Edited June 26, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Big Mac 19]

Iran supports Hamas and Hisballah, both of them hadn't said any words about Russia or Caucasus region in the last 4-5 years. These are mainly so-called "anti-western" organizations with local goals. And speaking about terrorist groups, if you look at the times of first and second Chechen wars, OSCE, EU and US government supported chechen gangs Also, US fully supported Kurdish separatist organizations in Iraq. Moreover, look at those, who helped Bin Laden, Taliban and Albanian terrorist gangs to raise. So, if you compare this facts with the amount of military operations against other nations even from mid 80-s till nowadays, who has no right to have WMD?

And Hamas and Hizbullah have connections to AQ and Chechen separatists. As for the US,EU, and OSCE supporting Chechen separatists, I have no idea where you get that from, but it's untrue. I guess that's what you get when your media is so one sided and anti-american. The only thing The US, EU, and OSCE have done is come down hard on Russia for it's disregard of civilian lives during both Chechen wars, especially in regards to the actions of OMON troops and their treatment of Chechen civilians.

Who helped Bin Laden and the Taliban? It wasn't the US or NATO I can tell you that. Oh I know who it was, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Now when you speak of "Albanian terrorist gangs" do you mean the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) who fought the Serbs and who were then disarmed by KFOR troops, an operation in which Russian paratroopers were a part of?

Edited June 26, 2010 by Big Mac

[*LK1* 10]

Iran supports Hamas and Hisballah, both of them hadn't said any words about Russia or Caucasus region in the last 4-5 years. These are mainly so-called "anti-western" organisations with local goals. And speaking about terrorist groups, if you look at the times of first and second Chechen wars, OSCE, EU and US government supported chechen gangs:rolleyes: Also, US fully supported Kurdish separatist organisations in Iraq. Moreover, look at those, who helped Bin Laden, Taliban and albanian terrorist gangs to raise. So, if you compare this facts with the amount of military operations against other nations even from mid 80-s till nowdays, who has no right to have WMD?:rolleyes:

There are a lot of iranian students studying in the universities of my city. So, I shouldn't say that Iran feels about Russia the same that it feels about the country, that treats Iran as land of mad evil fanatics just because iranians expelled pro-western shakh and his government. So, i fully agree with you about the countries that equipped with WMD and attack those who hasn't it (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan etc.).

*

totally agree with you,problem is you are falling into the "we are western we are moraly superior" group.and once again the media has a crucial importance

for the growth of these "grups".

So, i fully agree with you about the countries that equipped with WMD and attack those who hasn't it (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan etc.).

and you have forgot to mention sud america which is the biggest and preferred theater for CIA "terrorist operations".like the contras groups in nicaragua.

ah i'm not anti-american.i have just some problems with the american government since i'm not a brainraped and i don't necessarily believe every BS coming out from fox news or the white house.eh is there any difference between white house and fox news?seems not sometimes.

Edited June 26, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Big Mac 19]

ah i'm not anti-american.i have just some problems with the american government since i'm not a brainraped and i don't necessarily believe every BS coming out from fox news or the white house.eh is there any difference between white house and fox news?seems not sometimes.

You obviously don't know as much as you think you do if you think all Americans take Fox News seriously. Most Americans such as myself watch Fox News for a laugh and the rest are too ignorant to watch anything else. I personally love watching Glenn Beck cry right after he delivers yet another "Obama is communist who's going to take away your freedoms" rant, I find the rant itself to be better than any stand up act and then he tops it off with bout of crying that disturbingly doesn't seem fake. Edited June 26, 2010 by Big Mac

[spooky lynx 73]

And Hamas and Hizbullah have connections to AQ and Chechen separatists. As for the US,EU, and OSCE supporting Chechen separatists, I have no idea where you get that from, but it's untrue. I guess that's what you get when your media is so one sided and anti-american. The only thing The US, EU, and OSCE have done is come down hard on Russia for it's disregard of civilian lives during both Chechen wars, especially in regards to the actions of OMON troops and their treatment of Chechen civilians.

Who helped Bin Laden and the Taliban? It wasn't the US or NATO I can tell you that. Oh I know who it was, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Now when you speak of "Albanian terrorist gangs" do you mean the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) who fought the Serbs and who were then disarmed by KFOR troops, an operation in which Russian paratroopers were a part of?

I seriously doubt that connections between Hamas, Hisballah and mythic Al-Quaeda are something more than fairytales which are the same as mass-media fairytales about global terrorism.

As for OSCE, EU and US support of chechens - I know it from some of my relatives and friends who took part in both wars. The pressure from OSCE and EU emissaries became extremely hard especially when chechens were facing total defeat. Also, many articles which showed involving OSCE in the help to the gangs (medical aid, food, using of OSCE transport for gang leaders moving etc), were in "SOF" magazine (1996-2000 years).

So, I don't see any reasons against Iran having WMD. It won't be able to defend itself by any conventional weapons when united US-NATO forces will invade it. Israel has the right to have WMD, France has, Great Britain has. And Iran, having non-west-friendly poiltical course, does not?:confused:

[*LK1* 10]

And Hamas and Hizbullah have connections to AQ and Chechen separatists. As for the US,EU, and OSCE supporting Chechen separatists, I have no idea where you get that from, but it's untrue.

i have no idea how you dont get it :)

is obvious for a lot of people,like is obvious that the yellow/orange revolution

in georgia and ukraine were sponsorised fro mthe US government.

I guess that's what you get when your media is so one sided and anti-american. The only thing The US, EU, and OSCE have done is come down hard on Russia for it's disregard of civilian lives during both Chechen wars, especially in regards to the actions of OMON troops and their treatment of Chechen civilians.The only thing The US, EU, and OSCE have done is come down hard on Russia for it's disregard of civilian lives during both Chechen wars, especially in regards to the actions of OMON troops and their treatment of Chechen civilians.

yeah but these organization has forget to talk about the many crimes of the us army/marines in iraq.so,since these organization like OSCE is just a pro-western US sponsorised organization,i wouldn't give to much attention on what has said.if this org. want to be credible he should pay attention even for the many crimes committed by the american in iraq,even if the americans are the biggest sponsor of this org. instead of focalizing all the energy just against the US opponents.and plz dont talk about media.fox news and cnn are famous as much as are ridicolous as media.i can give you 3/4 clear examples which proves how much ridicolous they are.you have just to ask.to be honest i prefer BBC...no these filo-governative media.

Who helped Bin Laden and the Taliban? It wasn't the US or NATO I can tell you that. Oh I know who it was, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

you are talking us for sure something which is a big BS.if you go to ask at the stones outside of your house "hey who funded the taliban before 1990?"

he willl tell you "us government man where you are you live,jees.."

Now when you speak of "Albanian terrorist gangs" do you mean the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) who fought the Serbs and who were then disarmed by KFOR troops, an operation in which Russian paratroopers were a part of?

we are speaking the same "KLA"(also known as terrorists") which were considerated terrorists by most of the coutries and even us government,but something has changed around the 1995 and this group was putted out of the terrorist list.

honestly and without sarcams or negative behaviour,if you don't know a ****

of what you are talking why you keep posting?when there is not the minimum amount of intellectual honesty is not funny to continues these types of geo-political conversations.

Edited June 26, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[eble 3]

And Hamas and Hizbullah have connections to AQ and Chechen separatists. As for the US,EU, and OSCE supporting Chechen separatists, I have no idea where you get that from, but it's untrue. I guess that's what you get when your media is so one sided and anti-american. The only thing The US, EU, and OSCE have done is come down hard on Russia for it's disregard of civilian lives during both Chechen wars, especially in regards to the actions of OMON troops and their treatment of Chechen civilians.

Who helped Bin Laden and the Taliban? It wasn't the US or NATO I can tell you that. Oh I know who it was, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Now when you speak of "Albanian terrorist gangs" do you mean the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) who fought the Serbs and who were then disarmed by KFOR troops, an operation in which Russian paratroopers were a part of?

No one will ever admit to personally helping Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan.

But we all know for a fact the CIA funded the fighters with money/weapons as they had done in previous wars in Africa and Central America.

So did the CIA actually school him in what to do etc?, we'll never know but yes he would have been help greatly by indirect US support in the past, that goes without saying.

The US wanted Russia to bleed in Afghanistan like the US did in Vietnam, it worked, the same result for the Russians as the US had had.

Unfortunately we are now back to try and clean up the mess we created.

THE KLA (nice name media spin name, add liberation and they go from terrorist to freedom fighter overnight)) were regarded as a fully terriorists group before being delisted and and then supported

Edited June 26, 2010 by Eble

[*LK1* 10]

So, I don't see any reasons against Iran having WMD. It won't be able to defend itself by any conventional weapons when united US-NATO forces will invade it. Israel has the right to have WMD, France has, Great Britain has. And Iran, having non-west-friendly poiltical course, does not?:confused:

why the only nation which has used an atomic bomb in conflict has the rights to have atomic bombs?because we dont have the power to tell him "you are to dangerous with a nuke in your hands".

---------- Post added at 01:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------

You obviously don't know as much as you think you do if you think all Americans take Fox News seriously. Most Americans such as myself watch Fox News for a laugh and the rest are too ignorant to watch anything else. I personally love watching Glenn Beck cry right after he delivers yet another "Obama is communist who's going to take away your freedoms" rant, I find the rant itself to be better than any stand up act and then he tops it off with bout of crying that disturbingly doesn't seem fake.

not all of the americans but most of the americans.for what i know fox news is the most watched network in the states togheter with cnn.correct me if i'm wrong.

---------- Post added at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:58 PM ----------

Baff1, you keep saying "in my country." What country would that actually be?

UK if i don't remember wrong.

[Baff1 0]

Hey you asked a question and I answered. I'm sure that it is also quite common among democratic nations to take those protesters somewhere and shoot them in the head right?

For the record I am not totally against Iran, I just see a lot of flaws in their system.

I see flaws too.

But I see flaws I all systems, so seeing flaws doesn't get me all moralistic if you see what I mean.

It's intresting that you describe protesters being taken away and shot in the head as quite common in Iran.

How common exactly do you think this is?

---------- Post added at 02:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:07 PM ----------

Baff1, you keep saying "in my country." What country would that actually be?

Britain.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:08 PM ----------

There are a lot of iranian students studying in the universities of my city. So, I shouldn't say that Iran feels about Russia the same that it feels about the country, that treats Iran as land of mad evil fanatics just because iranians expelled pro-western shakh and his government. So, i fully agree with you about the countries that equipped with WMD and attack those who hasn't it (Yugoslavia, Iraq, Panama, Grenada, Afghanistan etc.).

I have plenty of Iranian friends living here.

Perhaps you a right about their national disposition towards Russia, but bear in mind they threw the Russians out at the same time they threw the rest of us out and for the same reasons.

Their stated goal is to usurp the hegemeony of the old powers in their region.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

Well, the hanging of homosexuals for one...

You saw that?

I do of course accept that where I live the idea of hanging people, let alone hanging them because of their sexuality is abhorrant.

It is not necessarily undemocratic or immoral however even though it is clearly deemed to be in our society. And Iran is hardly the only society in the world to kill gays. Nor is their killing of gays a specifically malign Islamic princicple. Many Christian nations in Africa do the same. Rpobably some Hindu's and bhuddists do too I expect. Being gay may be cool where we live, but there are vast numbers of societies onthe planet that do not agree with this in any way.

---------- Post added at 02:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------

Oh Laws are voted on over there but it makes little difference when the Ayatollah can make all those votes meaningless with one word. It's a sham democracy.

As for Bush and Blair you completely missed the point I made and shows you either didn't bother to understand it or can't understand it..

I did miss your point, I'm sorry. Perhaps if you'd care to elaborate on it I might be intrested in addressing it.

In my country the laws can be overulled by the head of state also. Not that she ever does. Does the Ayatollah ever do this?

Iran has an oligarchic second chamber, this means laws made by the democratically elected chamber can be overrulled by a second unelected council.

My country also has such a chamber. While many people consider this kind of government an outrageous blight on democracy, I myself consider it to be a highly effective democratic safeguard against popularism.

I understand full well that there are thing Iran does that I do not approve of. However I'm not a big gay rights activist myself, nor is torture by the state an uncommon event in the world.

I believe America for example routinely tortures it's captives. My own country which has rather more stringent laws pertaining to the torture of it's prisoners has also participated in torture recently.

Does this invalidate the religious beliefs and system of government in my country? No, I don't feel that it does.

Am I persuaded that examples of Iranian torture are the norm for their prisoners? Not yet. I'm open to this, but a few articles in western media are more likely to be propaganda than they are representative of typical Iranian justice in my opinion.

What makes it propaganda is when we hear a load of stories of injustice and abuse, but never any balancing stories of justice tolerance or mercy. I can assure you that these too exist in all societies.

So we aren't being presented a balanced view of their society. We are not being given the opportunities to weigh up the good against the bad and form an educated opinion on their culture.

There are many other factors to consider on the subject of executions murder and gay rights in Iran. One might consider whether or not this is a trend that is on the rise or on the decline. Clearly if they are on the decline, then the government and society is becoming more liberal. We might also compare them to the the other socieities and governments in the region. Clearly if Iran tortures, kills, imprsions and execute less than it's neighbours or rivals this is a good thing.

Off the top of my head, I think Iran imprisons something like 1/5th the porportion of it's population of say the U.S. for example. There are lots more of them free than there are in your country and mine. We can easily find counterpoints to show how their society is better in some ways to ours. Another might be..what's the divorce rate in Iran? How many Single mothers or teenage pregnancies do they have.

Not everything about or society has turned out for the better.

We should be willing to learn from all cultures.

I'd like to give you an example of why I distrust western media's independance on this subject.

Here in Great Britian we have state controlled media. Censorship and more specifically the state run BBC.

The BBC, is funded by the British taxpayer for the purpose of providing entertainment and education for the British people.

However. It runs one specific channel. BBC Iran, not for the British but for the Iranians. It's sole purpose is to broadcast subversive televison programs into Iran. It's not available in the U.K. It isn't broadcast in the English language.

It's a psyops operation designed and maintained with the specific purpose of fomenting revolution and governmental overthrow in Iran.

So when I hear stories about the illegitamcy of elections or the abuse of poltical rivals and protesters, I do of course take it with a pinch of salt. We pay a lot of money to people to write such stories, so it's not a great shocker when they produce them.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Baff1

[Big Mac 19]

I seriously doubt that connections between Hamas, Hisballah and mythic Al-Quaeda are something more than fairytales which are the same as mass-media fairytales about global terrorism.

You just lost any creditability you had with that statement.

No one will ever admit to personally helping Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan.

But we all know for a fact the CIA funded the fighters with money/weapons as they had done in previous wars in Africa and Central America.

So did the CIA actually school him in what to do etc?, we'll never know but yes he would have been help greatly by indirect US support in the past, that goes without saying.

The US wanted Russia to bleed in Afghanistan like the US did in Vietnam, it worked, the same result for the Russians as the US had had.

Unfortunately we are now back to try and clean up the mess we created.

THE KLA (nice name media spin name, add liberation and they go from terrorist to freedom fighter overnight)) were regarded as a fully terriorists group before being delisted and and then supported

I never said I approved the KLA, I just said that yes we supported them, but we also disarmed them once the war was over, because we knew who they were and that was change of pace for the US Government and NATO as a whole.

not all of the americans but most of the americans.for what i know fox news is the most watched network in the states togheter with cnn.correct me if i'm wrong.

There's a difference in watching it and taking it seriously. Most American's watch it either for laughs or to get another point of view on politics. You stand corrected. Edited June 26, 2010 by Big Mac

[Baff1 0]

iran,as you many don't know, is a strange,authoritarian,muscular democracy.

and ahmadinejad is not saddam,this lastone was a dictator.you guys should stop your brainraping media for a second.you can simply use some source around the net to study the political insitutions of iran.you'll agree is not a regime,surely is not the most "democratic democracy" but once again our media are just demonizing a foreign country to manipulate the public opinion....:j:

if you want to know even milosevic was not a dictator since he was elected by the people...

and we are supposed to leave in countries were the media are free and pluralistic?funny..

There was a lovely story on Simpsons World during the run up to iranian elections.

Most of the coverage here, 99% was on the opposition party.

But Simpson followed Ahmadinejad around on his campaign.

And let me tell you, he had massive crowds. That election was no fix, he has the popular support.

So there he was in a giant crowded football stadium somwehere meeting all supporters. No body guards, just him and his adoring masses.

And here is the charming bit.

The little old ladies were all trying to reach out and touch him, they wanted to be cured of their diseases!!!

Hahahaha.

Fuck me, here I am arguing that it's not a medieval society and the old women think touching the prime minister will make them young again like he is Jesus.

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------

You just lost any creditability you had with that statement.

I think Bin Laden might have had involvement in the emabssy bombing in Lebanon.

He obviously isn't likely to have much involvement with Hesbollah however as that is a rival faction.

Neither has he had any involvement with Hamas that I have heard of.

While it may be politically expedient to link Hamas Hesbollah and even Saddam Hussein to Al Quaeda, (not to mention liberal newspapers and anti war protesters!) it has little credability with me. These are all entirely independant movements with different aims different populations and different infrastructures. I am reminded of the scenes in Team America and Police Squad where all the worlds bad guys are all sitting round the table together in one room planning their next move before Frank Dreben pulls off his wig and starts belting them all on the chin.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:01 PM ----------

No one will ever admit to personally helping Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan.

No one in the west will, because they didn't.

While we in the west did help many people and organisations against the Russians in Afghanistan, Osama Bin Laden would have nothing to do with us.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Baff1

[*LK1* 10]

You just lost any creditability you had with that statement.

to be honest he doesn't lost any creditability just for that.well there is no evidence about a link between iran and hamas.i saw in the last lebanon war a lot of new At-toys made in russia probably came from iran but ican't be sure

...we have the pro-governative network like cnn and fox news which they are so sure about this link,well they see link even where there are not.and we have the liberal newspaper ecc. which they are talking the contrare.now plz tell me who i should believe.noone they only chance i have is to use my brain.i can tell you for sure that before the iraqi war(the last 1)most of the media were talking about the link between saddam and al qaeda but that was turned out as a bulshit after a couple of years.like the weapons of mass destructions.

if baff has losed his creditability don't you have lost your too?since you didn't know the link between the talibans and the western countries at the time of the soviet invasion of afghanistan?Who do you think has given stingers at the talibans to shoot down the mi-24? i mean seriusly it's history.. is not just an hypothetical conspiracy theory :j:

I never said I approved the KLA, I just said that yes we supported them, but we also disarmed them once the war was over, because we knew who they were and that was change of pace for the US Government and NATO as a whole.

disarmed them?man even because i'm half serbian(well i'm half italian-austrian too)and i know that region of the world i highly doubt they were disarmed.

probably you don't imagine the numbers of weapons you could find inthe balkan region.

There's a difference in watching it and taking it seriously. Most American's watch it either for laughs or to get another point of view on politics. You stand corrected.

mmm i guess that most of the americans if they want to have some fun they look at the david letterman show not at fow news.officially is a television news and most of the people watching it for that...that's the problem :butbut:

Edited June 26, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Big Mac 19]

if baff has losed his creditability don't you have lost your too?since you didn't know the link between the talibans and the western countries at the time of the soviet invasion of afghanistan?Who do you think has given stingers at the talibans to shoot down the mi-24? i mean seriusly it's history.. is not just an hypothetical conspiracy theory

I wasn't talking to Baff I was talking to Spooky and as for those Stingers, most of them were in the hands of what later became known as the Northern Alliance. The taliban didn't form until the mid-90s. Please do some research if you wish to debate with me.

disarmed them?man even because i'm half serbian(well i'm half italian-austrian too)and i know that region of the world i highly doubt they were disarmed.

probably you don't imagine the numbers of weapons you could find inthe balkan region.

Well considering that KFOR has been there for 11 years and it's mandate was to rebuild and disarm I'm pretty sure they've done a good job of it.

mmm i guess that most of the americans if they want to have some fun they look at the david letterman show not at fow news.officially is a television news and most of the people watching it for that...that's the problem

Do you live in America? Do you associate with Americans constantly on a daily basis? No and No. I think I know my country just a little better than you. If you had any sense whatsoever you'd know it's funny to watch someone rant about conspiracy theories.

[echo1 0]

I do of course accept that where I live the idea of hanging people, let alone hanging them because of their sexuality is abhorrant.

It is not necessarily undemocratic or immoral however even though it is clearly deemed to be in our society. And Iran is hardly the only society in the world to kill gays. Nor is their killing of gays a specifically malign Islamic princicple. Many Christian nations in Africa do the same. Rpobably some Hindu's and bhuddists do too I expect. Being gay may be cool where we live, but there are vast numbers of societies onthe planet that do not agree with this in any way.

Please don't tell me that this is an argument for cultural relativism?

[Mike84 1]

It wouldn't be a Walker thread if certain people, in this case even Europeans (!), would scare me with their ideas.

@Baff1, I'm happy you're comparing Iran with certain morally bankrupt countries in Africa. Kinda destroys the point you were trying to make no?

[*LK1* 10]

I wasn't talking to Baff I was talking to Spooky and as for those Stingers, most of them were in the hands of what later became known as the Northern Alliance. The taliban didn't form until the mid-90s. Please do some research if you wish to debate with me.

lol..plz you clearly know that the descendants of the talibans were the northen alliance activists..well in fact northen alliance and talibans are 2 different words.but we are talking about the same stuff :rolleyes:.most of the northen alliance fighters came from pakistan and they had a radical vision

of the islamic religion..oh pretty much like the talibans.

Well considering that KFOR has been there for 11 years and it's mandate was to rebuild and disarm I'm pretty sure they've done a good job of it.

eh?so you think tha they have accomplished their task just because they were there to do that?surely you are not a pessimist.as i am in these cases.

Do you live in America? Do you associate with Americans constantly on a daily basis? No and No. I think I know my country just a little better than you. If you had any sense whatsoever you'd know it's funny to watch someone rant about conspiracy theories.

which type of argumentations are you using seriusly?are you iranian?we were talking about iran right now...sure you know your country more than me but,as i explained, i have the info that fow news is 1 of the most popular(probably 1 of the 3..)network in the U.S.A(and is a shame..for journalism)and considering how much is ridicolous and facious in a pro-governative way i can understand why when i debate with some american(especially with republicans) about iran-war ecc. they have pretty much the same ideas you can find in these networks.well not all of them think in this way pretty much most of them.

you wanna know my little opinion about the state of the American Information System right now(probably not but who cares:p)?

well is similar to the opinion of this guy

(is talking about BW but also about the media and the state..)

x0ELFQtEBec

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

Please don't tell me that this is an argument for cultural relativism?

plz can i know which problem you see with cultural relativism?

you might prefer some sort of undeniable truth?

It wouldn't be a Walker thread if certain people, in this case even Europeans (!), would scare me with their ideas.

jees. some times here it seems like a propagandistic-sub forum owned by some

hawk of the white house but im not turned on a walker thread anyway.

:rolleyes::p

Edited June 26, 2010 by ***LeGeNDK1LLER***

[Mike84 1]

are you iranian?we were talking about iran right now...sure you know your country more than me but,as i explained, i have the info that fow news is 1 of the most popular

You brought Americans and their love for Fox News up, so don't change the subject now. Btw, if you wanna make such claims, at least back it up with some proof, otherwise you're kinda acting like a moron

[jakerod 254]

plz can i know which problem you see with cultural relativism?

The fact that you can use it to justify any event on the planet. Rape, murder, genocide, mutilations, oppression, etc.