ARMA 2 (OA) : DLC discussion thread

[jblackrupert 14]

Thank god that attitiude isn't catchy or we'd still be living in caves playing pong

I mean, pong works, it's fun..... why change

8-track tapes (Which I'm old enough to remember) play music, you can switch songs. No need for anything else.

I have friends and family and visit several cities in Canada. Should I just have a stack of phonebooks for each place I go when I need to look stuff up. Phonebooks work fine afterall.

Maybe BIS should switch back to codewheels and dongles for copy protection. I mean, they were very effective for companies that used them.

Edited July 30, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Zipper5 74]

I'd welcome improvements to the system with open arms, I never denied that. What I'm adressing is the notion that it is "difficult" in it's current state.

[jblackrupert 14]

I'd welcome improvements to the system with open arms, I never denied that. What I'm adressing is the notion that it is "difficult" in it's current state.

The numbers say it is.

The fact that I have to buy a ream of paper and have a pen at the ready says it is.

It was a system that worked well in 2001 but thats what we had. Time marches on, things get improved.

new ideas come about.

If you really are 17, then I dare you to grab a Commodore 64 and 1541 floppy drive and some old game and try to deal with the crap

we put up with back them.

I'm talking the copy protection schemes. Codewheels, dongles, swapping multiple disks

looking up words in the manual.

We managed to still play the games. but it was a unnessasary pain in the ass I can tell you.

If you have a car. install an 8-track and some tapes. take it for a spin. Works. you hear music.... Whats the problem?

Maybe the BIS forum should switch to a BBS?

Edited July 30, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Zipper5 74]

The numbers say it is.

Uhuh. Well, call me an elitist if you want, but that's simply laziness. It hasn't changed since OFP, but since Arma 2 people have started to call it difficult. That's more to do with how well Arma 2 seems to have sold compared to BIS' previous games, bringing in more of the new generation of gamer.

I can understand the current gaming generation finding that too difficult, but then again, they also allow a $15 map pack lacking any real fixes to a game riddled with issues to become the highest selling DLC of all time.

The fact that I have to buy a ream of paper and have a pen at the ready says it is.

Why do you have to do that but I can accomplish the same thing with a screenshot?

If you really are 17, then I dare you to grab a Commodore 64 and 1541 floppy drive and some old game and try to deal with the crap

we put up with back them.

I really am 17, but the oldest games I've played probably are some of the original Sonic games on an old SEGA console.

Again, I would love improvements, but the notion that it's difficult or a pain in the ass to do simply indicates laziness in my eyes.

[jblackrupert 14]

SEGA doesn't count. cartridges were a ENOURMOUS improvement on the old floppy game days.

Just because something functions doesn't mean it's good, especially if there are a million other ways that people have come up with the make it easier.

Even Russia with it's clunky old communist days hardware is switching to newer hardware and systems of doing it.

I can't believe I'm in my 40's arguing with a 17 year old that newer more modern systems are better for everyone.

I play 64 games all the time, but I don't use a Commodore 64 to do it. I use MAME.

As for screens WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO????

And if you look at it, you just told me my pen and paper system an unessesary outdated system.

just like the browser/addon system we have now from 2001

Edited July 30, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Zipper5 74]

I can't believe I'm in my 40's arguing with a 17 year old that newer more modern systems are better for everyone.

Guess I'm not your usual 17 year old. ;)

Again, I don't think that newer, modern systems for this would be detrimental, but what I do think is that the current system doesn't demand change for it to work.

[jblackrupert 14]

I wish we had a time machine. I'd haul your ass back to the late 70's and 80's

and see how well you like things.

Watch your face as we wait 30 minutes for a game to load and then have to

look up a word in the manual on page XX, paragraph XX, line XX.

or log into a BBS and wait 2 hours for a simple image to download.

I mean it works right, no need to change.

[Zipper5 74]

1. I'd love to see improvements.
   
2. Current system is not broken, does not require much effort at all to use.
   

My argument summed up.

I'm sure the old systems were really hard to use, but comparing the amount of work to get those working to how it currently is in Arma 2 and OA is pretty irrelevant due to the huge gap in between the different technologies.

We're kinda offtopic, ain't we? :butbut:

[katipo66 94]

I wish we had a time machine. I'd haul your ass back to the late 70's and 80's

and see how well you like things.

Watch your face as we wait 30 minutes for a game to load and then have to

look up a word in the manual on page XX, paragraph XX, line XX.

or log into a BBS and wait 2 hours for a simple image to download.

I mean it works right, no need to change.

Lolz, ohh shuddup you ole bugga and leave the young fulla alone...

But yeah, im from around back then, things have come along way since the spacie days.. love to see what gaming will be in another 10-20yrs

[Rolexman 10]

1. I'd love to see improvements.
   
2. Current system is not broken, does not require much effort at all to use.
   

My argument summed up.

I'm sure the old systems were really hard to use, but comparing the amount of work to get those working to how it currently is in Arma 2 and OA is pretty irrelevant due to the huge gap in between the different technologies.

We're kinda offtopic, ain't we? :butbut:

The topic is "Is DLC the right path for the future of this game?"

I disagree. DLC will not create new players. That is what this game needs. Numbers.

The programmers shouldn't be wasting time with DLC. You already read what they should be doing.

The current system is broken because it lacks interest with new players, who are used to an easier interface.

Sure we love it and understand how it works, but I have seen the numbers go up and down and they are on a more downward trend.

If we are to continue to play new releases, we need more new players.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Rolexman

[Dwarden 1125]

...

new content (e.g. DLC or free) attracts new players

and

new features (everyone via updates)

more fixes (everyone via updates)

additional improvements (everyone via updates)

FPDR

[ProfTournesol 956]

new content (e.g. DLC or free) attracts new players

and

new features (everyone via updates)

more fixes (everyone via updates)

additional improvements (everyone via updates)

FPDR

Agreed. But new contents cannot always be separated from new features or improvements.

[mrcash2009 0]

But new contents cannot always be separated from new features or improvements.

I think a developer of BIS who just clearly stated that features are separate to content that you have just quoted and has also been officially stated in the DLC thread in its first post, and here countless times means they might know that it might be ... well, separate.

Hence "Everyone via updates".

I see Rolexman is still posting here purely about this topic only (all 13 posts) and still stating that he knows A: Its going to end BIS B:It will end MP C: Its going to make no new players & D: the Freemasons are all out to ruin it for him. The last one I added :)

Edited July 30, 2010 by mrcash2009

[ProfTournesol 956]

I think a developer of BIS who just clearly stated that features are separate to content that you have just quoted and has also been officially stated in the DLC thread in its first post, and here countless times means they might know that it might be ... well, separate.

Hence "Everyone via updates".

Well i guess it depends on what kind of updates or improvements it is about : things such as FLIR in OA cannot be separated from units / vehicles as those improvements are included in models (correct me if i'm wrong). Other ones are configwise or enginewise and can more easily be separated.

[rübe 127]

new content (e.g. DLC or free) attracts new players

and

new features (everyone via updates)

more fixes (everyone via updates)

additional improvements (everyone via updates)

FPDR

You've omitted news value. BIS releasing DLC will generate real news value as a free side effect. What do you guys think reaches more people, costly advertisement (for a game that came out a "long" time ago) or new and independent news reports in game magazines, online journals... not to speak of the buzz it creates in forums - not only this one here, gentlemen.

DLC makes sure that Arma2 remains a hot topic and stays fresh.

But sure, let's cancel the DLC and better invest into advertisement. Oh my... :rolleyes:

• http://www.pcgames.de/ArmA-2-Operation-Arrowhead-PC-234804/News/ArmA-2-British-Armed-Forces-DLC-fuer-den-Militaer-Shooter-kommt-765219/
  
• http://www.gnd-tech.com/main/content/290-ArmA-2-Operation-Arrowhead-Britsh-DLC-Announced
  
• http://hx3.de/community-161/erster-kaufbarer-dlc-fuer-oa-angekuendigt-british-armed-forces-19354/
  
• http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/arma-2-operation-arrowhead/news/arma_2,45303,2316536.html
  
• http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/07/22/arma-ii-british-armed-forces-dlc-announced-for-august-26-release/
  
• http://worthplaying.com/article/2010/7/23/news/75756/
  
• http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1374430
  
• http://www.gbase.ch/PC/news/ArmA-2-Add-on%3A-DLC-in-K%C3%BCrze/9220/45787.html
  
• http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64838
  
• http://beefjack.com/news/the-british-are-coming-arma-ii-expansion-gets-new-dlc/
  
• http://www.brdevils.com/devils/showthread.php?tid=2347&pid=34772
  
• http://www.examiner.com/x-11320-SF-PC-Game-Examiner~y2010m7d25-The-British-are-coming-to-Operation-Arrowhead
  
• http://www.krawall.de/web/ArmA_2/news/id,55111/
  
• http://www.fpsadmin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20726
  
• http://www.4players.de/4players.php/spielinfonews/PC-CDROM/18448/2024368/ArmA_II_Operation_Arrowhead|Erste_Download_Erweiterung_vorgestellt.html
  
• http://www.powerongames.com/news/item/arma-2-operation-arrowhead-brit-dlc-announced
  
• http://www.univers-games.com/Jeu_Actualites_ArmA_2_Operation_ArrowHead_Premier_DLC_en_point_de_mire
  
• http://www.jeuxvideo.fr/british-armed-forces-dlc-addon-arma-actu-354434.html
  
• http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=402050
  
• http://www.pcgamersworld.com/2010/07/arma-ii-operation-arrowhead-pc-dlc-arrives-august-26th/
  
• and so forth...
  

Seriously, you "advertisement gurus" crack me up.

Edited July 30, 2010 by ruebe

[mrcash2009 0]

Well i guess it depends on what kind of updates or improvements it is about : things such as FLIR in OA cannot be separated from units / vehicles as those improvements are included in models (correct me if i'm wrong). Other ones are configwise or enginewise and can more easily be separated.

All units from here on in will be created to fit the FLIR as that's an engine feature from here on in, so having that in the models isn't exactly an update in a DLC its a layer in the model that FLIR recognises that exists outside of DLC which now a standard.

But yes separate as in patched features for the engine core etc, IE they wouldn't have new way of throwing a grenade only in a certain DLC ... that type of thing. Its also noted already that new features in the DLC will also be included as an update separate for all, so we are all singing from the same engine version hymn sheet.

Edited July 30, 2010 by mrcash2009

[ProfTournesol 956]

Its also noted already that new features in the DLC will also be included as an update separate for all, so we are all singing from the same engine version hymn sheet.

Yes and that's quite nice.

[mrcash2009 0]

Well to be fair I dont think BIS could do it any other way, otherwise you would fragment the engine core depending on what DLC you have, then we would have uproar!

[jblackrupert 14]

Walking into most stores and asking about Arma only to have them say "Never heard of it" doesn't crack me up.

Letting someone sit at my computer to play Arma 2

I have to be there to try and explain the mess they see in the browser

After about 30 minutes of clicking and hunting for addons we're both

in no real mood to even play.

Play on a vanilla server you say? Which one, they're all empty 90% of the time.

Like it or not, the browser/addon system needs a MASSIVE makeover

Stores and MOST people never hearing of Arma screams that this game

needs to be advertised more.

The Arma 2 demo needs to be patched and re-released

BIS has lost hundreds of sales to the bugs in that regardless

of the current state of the game. Message boards, forums

and replies under videos for the demo are filled with nothing but

comments about bugs and performance issues.

Look at the first Youtube videos that appeared just before release

- Standard definition

- Blurry

- Low framerate

- Settings on low

- Crappy editing and camera angles.

Look at the OA demo..... It's a freaking ghost town

I have yet to see more then a 100 people playing it at any hour of the day.

Pings are just as bad as OFP:DR because it's all Listen Servers.

TDM causes blackscreens for a lot of people if you aren't warping around the screen

or spawning dead or injured.

Then there are the publishers....... Finding a copy of Arma/OA is game in itself.

Edited July 30, 2010 by jblackrupert

[Flash Thunder 10]

They dont need to update the arma 2 demo since OA's demo is already out and it runs 200% better than a2.

@Dwarden well it would depend alot on the circumstances of the content, if it adds new functionality to an existing feature or something in the core engine.

You guys are smart enough to figure it out, cant wait to see what kind of improvements and future content will get British forces seems kick ass so far.

[Rolexman 10]

Well, I'm done posting. If they want this to go the way of the dodo, then so be it. Arrogance and stubbornness will be the culprit.

Hope to see someone on the servers in the later future.

Good luck getting through to these people jblackrupert.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Rolexman

[xeno 234]

@jblackrupert

I fully agree with you.

What this game is missing is the MP players.

Even after OA release about 1500 online players max at weekends is a joke (and that is OA and A2 players together, currently when writing this 700 players).

MP is what drives a game these days. With thousands of players there would be no whining because of mods/missions divide the online com or whatever bla.

Enough slots for PvP players, enough slots for coop players, enough slots for tactical players, enough slots for <add whatever you want>.

The problem is, you won't get it. As you can see this com is happy when it gets yet another set of units and vehicles which do not solve the problems and bugs nor do they enhance gameplay at all.

If you are against something like the BAF DLC (where BIS looses more money than with other business models that would make much more sense for them) you are treated like an idiot.

People tell you that the only way for BIS to create revenues is to buy DLC.

Even BIS employes try to blackmail you that further engine development depends on DLC.

Well done. I won't buy it. You have my money allready.

And yes. This game is missing advertisement.

There is no marketing at all. At least from what I see. Marketing is not about having some site x write an article which nobody reads.

BIS has made an error, right here, right now.

They still have plenty of time to correct it.

Do something, make it interesting... make us want to have it... more important... make it interesting for people who have never played an opf/arma product or have never heard about it.

But don't expect everbody to applaude on DLC.

BIF is just a very very small part of the ArmA com where most of the people who can't speak english don't even have an account or are able to read here.

Xeno

[11aTony 0]

There you have it guys, I just have to agree with you Xeno.

And on the marketing side, if you ask 10 rendom people about arma 9 will say "whats that" and one will say "oh yeah arma, I heared something about that".

[Defunkt 431]

ArmA is a niche game, people interested in this type of game will find out about it, investigation is part and parcel of having such interests. Those who don't know about it wouldn't buy it anyway or wouldn't be happy having done so. Word of mouth is the most cost-effective way to promote a product of narrow appeal, advertising is expensive and difficult to target at a limited interest group. Consider, of 1000 people exposed to an advertisment what proportion will be motivated to buy an arcade shooter like COD6 and what proportion will be motivated to purchase a military simulator like ArmA? The advertisments cost the same however the returns differ.

[xeno 234]

ArmA is a niche game, people interested in this type of game will find out about it, investigation is part and parcel of having such interests. Those who don't know about it wouldn't buy it anyway or wouldn't be happy having done so. Word of mouth is the most cost-effective way to promote a product of narrow appeal, advertising is expensive and difficult to target at a limited interest group. Consider, of 1000 people exposed to an advertisment what proportion will be motivated to buy an arcade shooter like COD6 and what proportion will be motivated to purchase a military simulator like ArmA? The advertisments cost the same however the returns differ.

So what you are saying, basically, is that we should just give up and accept the current situation. A2/OA is a niche game that maybe, eventually, luckily, some other players might find interesting.

If it is fine for you to stick your head into the sand, ok, but sorry, that's not my way (I'm old, not much years left for playing online :D).

I want to play. I want to play with as much players as possible. I don't care what those players play. The more the better.

And if the right advertisement just brings in one player, it has allready done very well.

From my experience... you have to keep people impressed. You have to show them something new.

If you just give up and don't progress, you are dead.

Xeno