Lack of PvP in Oz (Zero PvP in Oz)

[Freeborne 10]

I think LJF's suggestion is a good place to start. Find like-minded players 76, that are interested in PvP and AAS, then go from there.

Otherwise, go ahead, start your own server. Australia can never have enough ArmA servers :rolleyes: OR instead of disagreeing and arguing with everyone, and then marching off with a "fine, I'll go build it myself and everyone will come, just you see, just you see" attitude, why not try to work with what you already have.

As mentioned, Games.On.Net is currently Australia's busiest server, playing Warfare pretty much around the clock. Try talking to BalloFire and getting a few AAS maps on the server (if not already) and running AAS night sometime in the week. If AAS is as fun and additicting as you believe, you'll have lots of people clammering for AAS in future (and if GoN don't provide, someone else will). Either way, it probably your best recruiting ground.

You (OGN) was given a server, and I think everyone (but you) agrees with SnR and AEF's decision to remove the 300+ missions you wanted uploaded and reduce it to 50 or 60 popular and non-buggy missions. The OGN admins have admin access, but not server access. I think this is sufficient for a temp server, however simple fact is you (and OGN) FAILED to make the server popular. For all the talk about OGN and how it's the biggest and the best, when the forums came up online, it took WEEKS for people to start posting, and the temp server was dead most nights and none of the regular players were playing (many don't even have ArmA installed or a working PC).

You know I love PvP as much as you do, but I'm also willing to give other clans and servers a chance. I play with AEF, VMA, GoN, OGN, AAF, NZArmA, etc and I enjoy playing with all of them (different styles to suit my mood of the day). I haven't seen you on an Oz server in over 6 months (except few times on OGN temp server).

Anyway, I agree there's a need for PvP in Australia (Warfare on GoN is a good example with how it skyrocketed up the GameTracker ladder). This is first news I've heard of you having a tiff with OGN (aside from the previous incident) but I think you need to stick with them. They need someone like you prodding them into action. In the meantime (I've suggested this countless times), try to make FRIENDS with Aussies and Nu Zelunduhs & quit playing on overseas servers. Remember when making friends it's important to find people who actually play ArmA (not people who just talk about it all day in forums).*cough*

[qwertz 10]

(...) Try talking to BalloFire and getting a few AAS maps on the server (if not already) and running AAS night sometime in the week. If AAS is as fun and additicting as you believe, you'll have lots of people clammering for AAS in future (and if GoN don't provide, someone else will). Either way, it probably your best recruiting ground.

It does not really work like that. To get a new AAS server going (or any other PvP mode), you need a group of people that is playing every morning/afternoon/evening/24h so that the server is populated. Then, you will see more and more people join slowly but steadily. If a PvP server is empty, no one will join and you will wait forever even if you have the best server in the universe. A temp server will most likely NOT work.

In the meantime (I've suggested this countless times), try to make FRIENDS with Aussies and Nu Zelunduhs & quit playing on overseas servers. (...)

I would actually HATE to lose 76 to you Aussies :p

Serious: let me know if you need any help/configs/missions/tips if you want to set up your own AAS sever 76 !

:cheers: qwertz

[Freeborne 10]

qwertz, we (Australia) don't have the population to run a 24x7 AAS server. Games.on.net is our most popular server and runs Warfare about 15 hours a day, often maxing out at 30 players during the evenings. It's also a pretty solid server with good bandwidth, and I think it could handle 40-50 people playing AAS. There's a lot of people there that don't play AAS, or haven't played it much, so if he can organise a night to run it, he might get 20 or 30 players hooked on AAS. Seems crazy to pass up that kind of opportunity.

I think AAS works best during peak-times only (for Australians). There isn't enough people coming and going during the quieter periods to have a PvP-Only server. It just means it will be empty most of the time, and really hard to get enough players together initially to start a game. Therefore, it's better off running something like Warfare, until say 6PM and then switching to AAS at a specified time.

When you take away GoN, it only leaves the clan run servers, which consist of long-standing dedicated players (who mostly just play tactical coops). Until OA comes up and boosts community numbers, there isn't enough players to go around.

Just like in business, you need to network, and that's essentially what I'm suggesting. 76 should be playing with other Aussies, as they're the people he needs to fill his servers (and recruit admins from). He can have 100 friends on US/EU servers, but that won't help when starting a server over here in Australia (where most of us will vote to kick you if you're ping is over 250ms).

If you're not willing to stick it out and wait for OGN, I think you're only other alternative is NZArmA. Running a dedicated server in Australia is too expensive (you USA and EU guys get them dirt cheap in comparison). NZArmA have the servers, the bandwidth, and technical skills, but lack the players. I think your personality would probably fit in well there too. Infact, strike it up with Snoutz and he may even loan you a fully functional server

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

When you take away GoN, it only leaves the clan run servers,

Prior to migrating back to GoN I got the Warfare missions uploaded onto the 3FL servers. For some reason back last year their servers started acting up and would often crash. I'm in regular contact with one of the moderator/admins of the 3FL server too so if GoN goes down you'd probably see people migrate to those, just like we migrated to GoN after 3FL went all funky.

Whenever I get voted into admin position on GoN I usually just ask the players what they want to do next and as usual the answer is Warfare. The few times that I have tried direct PvP modes, and that's usually later at night, the players get bored of it very quickly. GoN does have several AAS missions on their server so I might try one of those, but I still think you'll find that players won't enjoy it as much.

[RogueBlade 0]

1) Respawn: There is and has been not a single succesfull PvP multiplayer game out there in the past 10 years that would require players to wait 5-15 minutes for a respawn.

WOH.

WOH.

WOH.

[Lhowon 10]

To be fair he did say a game with respawn, which CS doesn't have.

Arguably there's a different psychology involved - people are willing to wait for longer if they know there's a) no respawn during the round and b) the round is at least potentially quite short. Both apply to CS. However if you can respawn during a round and the round typically lasts a long time people don't like to wait for long. I suspect this is because you need to buy into the concept of no respawn to put up with long waits, whereas if the game actually does have respawn having to then wait for ages just feels aggravating, because it feels arbitrary.

[galzohar 31]

Except he said it as a reply to my post, where I specifically meant wait 5-15 minutes for next round, not for respawn, basically just like you apparently have in CS as well as the more realistic AA2/3. In Arma 2 people are simply not willing to wait, be it respawn or wait for next round.

[qwertz 10]

15 minutes wait in CS ? As far as I remember, the round time can be set to a minimum of one minute, a maximum of nine minutes and a default (most servers) of 5 minutes. Assuming you don't die on spawn every round, and given that most rounds end by fulfilling the objective or one team being wiped out before the timeout, you will rarely wait more than 1-3 minutes until the next round starts. So, not quite sure what you talking about here.

Edited May 20, 2010 by qwertz

[76 0]

Experienced and Active OGN members could do it in a heart beat. A 1 man army in Oz isnt going to cut it, I suggest try again when Operation Arrowhead comes out or even better join us when were playing PvP with the Project Reality Mod when finalised. Whats popular in Oz is Warfare or Clan internal TvT mission nights, and both seem to keep players happy.

I think LJF's suggestion is a good place to start. Find like-minded players 76, that are interested in PvP and AAS, then go from there.

... seriously.... do you two not remember when I started PvP nights with OGN.... within 2 weeks we had ~50 players all weekend 99% of the time and ~20 players most week nights.... and 90% where Aussies so I have no fuking idea what you two are on about, you're plain wrong and I have 50+ witnesses and log files :D

There is a small but still very healthy (enough to warrant a dedicated server) demand and zero supply... no wonder the world sees us as backward.

OR instead of disagreeing and arguing with everyone, and then marching off with a "fine, I'll go build it myself and everyone will come, just you see, just you see" attitude, why not try to work with what you already have.

What coloured glasses do you wear... pretty please with all your might can you post anything where I stated or implied or anything else even remotely connected to what you are "quoting" me of having said, done etc etc.

Edited May 21, 2010 by 76
quote brackets

[SnR 1]

There is a small but still very healthy (enough to warrant a dedicated server)

This is true, tonight the guys went Vanilla PvP for shits and giggles and had healthy public numbers for most of the evening. 15+ playing a mix of Warfare and AAS.

[Freeborne 10]

... seriously.... do you two not remember when I started PvP nights with OGN.... within 2 weeks we had ~50 players all weekend 99% of the time and ~20 players most week nights....

Quit exaggerating. Not sure if you do it on purpose or not. OGN almost never had those numbers. GSA didn't even have those numbers, and it was higher on GameTracker ladder than OGN for well over a year. As evident by your recent attempts, and SnR's comment, you were not responsible for the popularity of OGN and PvP then, or now. Times have changed. Right now, PvP is not what everyone wants to play, otherwise they would be playing it. Nothing stopping any of us from playing it. You've run PvP missions, and people don't join. What more proof do you need? I agree we need more PvP that we have (more than zero) but think too much of it was what killed it in the first place.

SnR, was that 15 players in total, or 15 pubs in addition to your AEF guys? Either way, I wouldn't call 15 extra players on a Saturday enough to warrant a dedicated server. Maybe run PvP next Saturday and try to make it a regular event, but I don't think a dedicated server is needed because PvP got 15-20 players on a Saturday (especially when you ran Warfare, which is not what 76 is talking about here, as we already have a very popular Warfare server)

[longers2010 10]

the forthcoming project reality mod will sort out the PVP in arma 2, it will bring with it many new players from the current BF2 version of PR (which is still very popular).

its launching in june/july last i heard so not long to wait !!!

[Infam0us 10]

This thread ...

[Auss 208]

Seriously.... do you two not remember when I started PvP nights with OGN.... within 2 weeks we had ~50 players all weekend 99% of the time and ~20 players most week nights..

yes 76 you did an fantastic job, your passion for AAS did work marvels for the community and I for one loved your enthusiasm and commitment. This in the end was your undoing in the OGN commmunity. What you failed to grasp after many attempts too explain this to you was the fact that OGN is a volunteer community who rely very heavily on the generosity of organizations who give bandwidth and server rack space too allow us too exsist. Thus, we are at their mercy and have little control over when servers will be installed.

We were given an extremely generous offer of a temp server by the AEF clan too keep the community afloat in a time of need, but this didnt seem too appease you. Your agression to the OGN admins because the server was not setup to your liking was not called for and disrespectful too both OGN and the AEF clan. I do believe this is maybe why they pulled the server.

76 - I have been involved in running OFP/Arma servers since OFP 1.10 and I have rarely seen a player who gave as much as you did, but we must draw a line at abusive PM's, and slander on forums cannot be tolerated. I would suggest you take time out think about the vital role you played and too relise that sometimes the grass isnt always greener on the otherside.

@Infamous - that made me laugh :)

Edited May 25, 2010 by Aussie
Spelling mistakes again.....

[Freeborne 10]

AEF are running PvP night:

THIS FRIDAY @ 8PM AEST.

In the mission lineup will be 4x AAS maps, 2x CTF (OGN Battleship) and 2x DM.

Details here:

http://ausarma.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=335&start=0

76, and anyone else, if you like PvP and want to prove that it is popular and 'the people' really want AAS, then come join us on Friday. Should be a blast, mowing down the AEF guys :p

[BCA Cat Toaster 10]

Hey Freeborne, I´ll post a news about this event on www.advanceandsecure.com .

Maybe I´m allowed making a suggestion: 20 Mins is way too short. Please give it at least 30 mins if not the default 45. For players that like to play as a team and tactical it takes a lot of time - some minutes - to get into a good attack position with a squad. If you loose an objective you almost don´t have time to get it back. With just 20 minutes I wouldn´t think of doing anything else than just defending, ending up in a stalemate deatmatch around circles.

One more thing:

I noticed that you want to play a mission called "Utes Brutes" which is not part of the more than 100 Missions-V1.11-Release yet and therefore might run with outdated versions of AAS-Scripts with old bugs and missing the latest features and improvements. For the best experience I suggest using the missions from the latest Release (V1.11/r554) -> http://dev-heaven.net/projects/coolbox-aas/files

As long as you host only AAS-Chernarus-Missions no Addon is required. However to avoid kicking people that are joining with the recently released "@AAS"-Package enabled (even if it´s not being used) you should consider adding the AAS.key to your server as it might confuse players being kicked from an AAS-Server with the AAS-Addons enbled. If they aren´t used anyway, they can´t hurt.

Edited May 26, 2010 by BCA Cat Toaster

[SnR 1]

Got it thanks for the info:)

[76 0]

As evident by your recent attempts, and SnR's comment, you were not responsible for the popularity of OGN and PvP then, or now.

but think too much of it was what killed it in the first place.

funny, the only other person at OGN that showed interest and contributed was Thready... ask him or Aussie about who started and ran PvP nights, the rather large player increase (you do know what '~' means right?) and the number of players before PvP nights...

lol, AAS/PvP never died... OGN went offline... had nothing to do with the game style...ya dick :)

Experienced and Active OGN members could do it in a heart beat. A 1 man army in Oz isnt going to cut it, I suggest try again when Operation Arrowhead comes out or even better join us when were playing PvP with the Project Reality Mod when finalised. Whats popular in Oz is Warfare or Clan internal TvT mission nights, and both seem to keep players happy.

Nearly 30 players playing AAS on ya AEF Vanilla server tonight.

Edited May 28, 2010 by 76

[Delta 51 10]

To be clear I don't include warfare... I mean real PvP (AAS, AAD, DM, TDM, FF, CTF, KOTH)

why not?

All of which are crap PvP for ArmA as it ends up being a spam fest, nothing in-depth tactical about it, you want that style, battlefield awaits.

Also, even though it's freeborne your argueing with, act like a tool to anyone and you won't get what you want.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

I am currently working on a PvP template which balances the action you get in a Team Deathmatch, but keeps the tactical side of a coop mission or warfare, hybrid of ArmA and PR. Wont be finished/released until arrowhead as the random towns would be great.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Delta 51

[Auss 208]

ask him or Aussie about who started and ran PvP nights,

It seems you dont read back on previous posts

[76 0]

All of which are crap PvP for ArmA as it ends up being a spam fest, nothing in-depth tactical about it.

Hey bro I know I'm part of a minority but there is still more players in Oz that would frequent a PvP server than you'd get on most popular servers... its fact man, its been done and proven.

I am currently working on a PvP template which balances the action you get in a Team Deathmatch, but keeps the tactical side of a coop mission or warfare. Wont be finished/released until arrowhead.

Awesome, truley look forward to it...the only other great tactical PvP I've played is Thready's 'Island Towers'... he also makes other awesome AAD (attack and defend TvT)... great for clan battles as they require tactics and team work.

Island Towers

He tried to add alot of stuff like small limited 40mm nade arty for the team leaders and a few other things so it maybe alittle broken or maybe this one works... can't remember soz :)

It seems you dont read back on previous posts

40+ we need some real biggies

I love that fact that OGN play heaps of PvP... I think a lot of other people have been looking for this game type as well judging by the 40+ turn out (each night) over the weekend.

etc...

from here

nvm, I'm breaking the thread.

Edited May 28, 2010 by 76

[Delta 51 10]

Hey bro I know I'm part of a minority but there is still more players in Oz that would frequent a PvP server than you'd get on most popular servers... its fact man, its been done and proven.

I believe AEF run PvP every Friday, look into that for now i guess

[Freeborne 10]

Hey bro I know I'm part of a minority but there is still more players in Oz that would frequent a PvP server than you'd get on most popular servers... its fact man, its been done and proven.

Just because something was done in the past (we talking about a year ago) doesn't mean it can be easily replicated now. You already had your chance, you had a server and tried running AAS missions and people didn't join. Now that's a FACT. :p

OGN is still dead. Almost no OGN players are playing ArmA 2 anymore. You have to understand that's where the majority of your PvP players came from.

It's true that AAS/PvP was a success tonight, but only because AEF swarmed on their server like the well oiled clan they are. It was also a organised event, not a last minute thing, so people made an effort to turn up. Over 60% of players were from AEF clan. We wouldn't have had the numbers for AAS without them. PvP is not something they normally do, however tonight was quite a bit of fun, so they will probably do it again next week (but not every night, like you want)... As a one of event, it was a success, as a trial run for running 24x7 PvP.... not even close....

This is the last time I'm going to give you this advice, but GO MAKE SOME FRIENDS. ANZINS are a PvP orientated clan, go talk to them. NZArmA have the servers, and don't mind a bit of PvP, talk to them. AusArmA is the biggest gathering of ArmA players for Aus/NZ so try posting there... seriously, you wonder why your previous attempts fail when you seclude yourself to OGN who are all off playing Racing/Flight sims or busy with real life.

P.S: ANZINS is another clan you might want to contact. They are primarily into PvP and are working on some new AAS style maps with stronger team work and a focus on working in fire teams.

Edited May 28, 2010 by Freeborne

[Delta 51 10]

GO MAKE SOME FRIENDS.

Says the man who was publicly burned tonight for not having any friends himself

Less ego freeborne, just make a point and settle with that,

Yes the server had a large AEF presence, but you build the facilities and the pubs will come.

[RogueBlade 0]

I if wanted to play against AI, I would play single-player. If I want to play against other people I will play multi-player. PvP just makes sense.