do other countries get offended?

[Tonci87 163]

So really true

[dm 9]

BI tried to remove anything religious such as mosques, paintings, religious artefacts etc. in OA to not offend anyone :) afaik

"Rising from the heart of the city like a giant robin's egg is the dome of an elaborately-tiled mosque that just gets prettier the closer you get to it."

From the Eurogamer preview of OA.

For the record - its destructible too.

So: In b4 the shitstorm of rage from the Muslim quater. :j:

[Laqueesha 474]

For the record - its destructible too.

So: In b4 the shitstorm of rage from the Muslim quater.

It might look like a mosque, but without the religious symbols on it, it isn't. But hey, that's not going to stop people from getting offended, right? ;)

Expanding on this, does it annoy anyone when people from countries which to not speak English are speaking English amongst each other in films, books, television, video games, etc?

I never understood this. For example, there are countless movies where a group of French, German, or Russian people are speaking English amongst themselves when that is not their native language and they wouldn't be speaking it in reality.

[dm 9]

It might look like a mosque, but without the religious symbols on it, it isn't. But hey, that's not going to stop people from getting offended, right? ;)

Considering they got bitchy over the british army putting green domes on its range buildings, I would not be surprised if they got all shitty over this too.

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Expanding on this, does it annoy anyone when people from countries which to not speak English are speaking English amongst each other in films, books, television, video games, etc?

I never understood this. For example, there are countless movies where a group of French, German, or Russian people are speaking English amongst themselves when that is not their native language and they wouldn't be speaking it in reality.

These media are designed to be entertaining, not educating. Dubbing simply conveys the story more efficiently than subtitling. And if the actors spoke in the language of their role without any subtitles audiences would have to study languages really hard. (I am not saying, this would be a bad thing per se, but not very practical if you just want to watch a few foreign films.) Dubbing or synchronizing is not perfect; dialects, accents, slang and humour are often lost in translation, but it is still better than subtitling in most cases. If you live in a country where subtitles are not the norm, watch a DVD and choose spoken dialogue and subtitles in the same language and compare results. By the way, in some countries one single person translates all dialogues while you can hear the original voices in the background.

If I watch a film purely for entertainment I usually watch a dubbed version. If the film is made in a language I speak and if I am interested in certain aspects of the language I watch the original version. If the purpose of watching is to study the language, I will choose subtitles. I'd try to understand a sentence, stop the film, repeat it two or three times and listen again to check my pronunciation, the melody of speech, etc. For this purpose you have to choose the film properly.

Of course it's strange if people from all over the world speak the same language in a film, but here's a very funny example: I watched a war film where allied POWs escaped from a German prison disguised as German civilians. One of them spoke German and he was supposed to speak for his companions. In the dubbed German version of the film this part worked very well. The escapee could answer questions of the police and ask people for the way etc. without raising suspicion. When I had the chance to see this film in England I realized that the first sentence should have led to the escapee's immediate arrest because he spoke with a very strong American accent. The whole plot of the film lost its credibility in the original version.

A much better example is the film The Longest Day about D-day in Normandy. This film came out in different versions, black and white, artificially coloured, dubbed and with subtitles. Every role in this film is casted with an actor from the country his role represents. In the subtitled version you can hear various British and American accents plus French and German. If someone speaks in a foreign language he has his own accent which is very believable. In my opinion this is the way to go in international film productions.

To do the same thing in books would be an interesting experiment. Think about Tolstoi's War and Peace: The text would be translated to your language, say to English, but the Russian Dialogue would be in Russian (written in cyrillic letters, of course) and the French dialogue would be in French. Really a good idea?

In video games subtitles are a no-go except in cut-scenes, simply because you have to watch all areas of the monitor equally intense and it is very hard to concentrate on subtitles at the bottom of the screen when someone is shooting at you.

This is just my personal opinion. I have participated in discussions about languages in video games about the Stalker series. Many people voiced the opinion that everybody in the game should speak Russian to create an immersive environment giving the player the chance to feel like a Russian or Ukranian stalker. Fair enough, but I don't speak Russian and I still want to understand the campfire jokes or the loudspeaker announcements. If all this was said in Gerrman with a Russian accent (by Russian voice actors who speak German, not by German voice actors immitating a Russian accent) I'd be happy.

Sorry about this long post, but the thread opener says in his signature that he is a voice actor, so he might be interested in this.

[JdB 151]

For the record - its destructible too.

You should not have mentioned this. Inside information is not always a good thing. Especially if it leads to the necessity of having armoured cars, bodyguards and secret development bunkers :butbut:

[Archamedes 10]

lol do you think tom cruise would have made it through the whole film of valkyrie if he had to speak full german? I think his tall midget head would have popped.

However there is one thing i am desperatly trying to translate in a film. The scene in saving private ryan at the end where the american (jew) and the nazi are doing hand to hand combat. The german ends up stabbing him and he says a sentence in german but there is no subtitle or even closed caption to explain what it is he is saying. It really would be good for someone to translate that sentence.

[JdB 151]

lol do you think tom cruise would have made it through the whole film of valkyrie if he had to speak full german? I think his tall midget head would have popped.

However there is one thing i am desperatly trying to translate in a film. The scene in saving private ryan at the end where the american (jew) and the nazi are doing hand to hand combat. The german ends up stabbing him and he says a sentence in german but there is no subtitle or even closed caption to explain what it is he is saying. It really would be good for someone to translate that sentence.

From memory (haven't seen it for a while) it amounts to:

"Just give in, it will be quicker that way."

Obviously referring to the pros for both sides of a powerful aimed trust rather than a prolonged messy, painful struggle (although obviously with one major con for one of the parties involved ;) )

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

I have no idea if "the tall midget" speaks German, but in this particular role he'd have to speak without any accent at all. This is extremely difficult.

About this scene in Saving Private Ryan: I can recall one scene where a German stabbs an American. I think they are fighting in a house where Americans and Germans are on different floors. Is this the one you are talking about? In this scene the German soldier tells his opponent not to fight against the fatal thrust so that he can kill him without causing too much pain. This is just from my memory - if you want a precise translation, could you link to a video clip which shows it?

Edit: I see JdB has already replied and we are both talking about the same scene.

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

I found this scene on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuxpSSJBwW0

The German says two sentences to the American which are subtitled quite accurately at 02:50 and 03:04

Edited April 29, 2010 by Alpha-Kilo

[Archamedes 10]

oh that has cleared up something i have wondered about for a long time. I gathered it may have been something very roughly along those lines but just wanted to be sure

[jakerod 254]

Going back to the whole people mocking the french thing. This was in a newspaper the other day and I thought it was kind of interesting since it is exactly what I was talking about:

Frazz (Source)

[Tonci87 163]

Do you know how many jokes about the french Army are there in Germany?

"French assault rifle for sale, never used, only one time dropped"^^

[dmarkwick 261]

The whole French thing came about because the French use their own intelligence resources and not the US intelligence resources, which all the other coalition countries use. So when their own sources had a different take on WMD (which we all know know was more accurate, or more succinctly, less massaged) they were pilloried as cowardly. To such a childish tabloid extent that even food was renamed in some American outlets. Like "freedom fries" for example :D

Problem is, that the same tabloid mentality doesn't correct for history.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Do you know how many jokes about the french Army are there in Germany?

"French assault rifle for sale, never used, only one time dropped"^^

Quite shocking that those jokes come from your country, my bad. I'm not sure my grand father would appreciate, if he was still alive.

[Archamedes 10]

im sure most have heard the classic french joke

"the french hate americans and british, except when the german army is sitting in paris." That is actually a dumbed down sketch made by robin williams on one of his stand up shows he did

[JdB 151]

Do you know how many jokes about the french Army are there in Germany?

"French assault rifle for sale, never used, only one time dropped"^^

Good thing it's not an original, the original one was:

"ARVN rifle, never used, only dropped once."

(ARVN, Army of the Republic of Vietnam, South Vietnam, not exactly known for it's fighting prowess)

So they can't even be original in their puns! :butbut:

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

Great, we are telling jokes. Prof Tournesol, how about a French joke about Germans?

By the way, this series about "Sharpe's Rifles" which has been mentioned in this thread is available on youtube. I watched the first episode and I find it very entertaining. In this episodes Spanish and French were played by native speakers. They speak English with Sharpe's chosen men and their own language (subtitled) among each other. Just one inconsistancy: A Spaniard said a prayer in English when he was alone in a chapel.

[ProfTournesol 956]

im sure most have heard the classic french joke

"the french hate americans and british, except when the german army is sitting in paris." That is actually a dumbed down sketch made by robin williams on one of his stand up shows he did

This one is nice :)

Great, we are telling jokes. Prof Tournesol, how about a French joke about Germans?

German jokes about 1940 French defeat (and following occupation) are, to say the least, of very bad taste. It cannot be compared to "French eating froggs and German drinking bear" jokes. I think my Polish friends will support my point of view.

Edited April 29, 2010 by ProfTournesol

[celery 8]

German jokes about 1940 French defeat (and following occupation) are, to say the least, of very bad taste. It cannot be compared to "French eating froggs and German drinking bear" jokes. I think my Polish friends will support my point of view.

I agree, the jokes told by other Allied nations are of much higher standards.

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."

-General Patton

[ProfTournesol 956]

I agree, the jokes told by other Allied nations are of much higher standards.

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."

-General Patton

If you don't wanna understand what i meant, i can't help you.

[Archamedes 10]

just in case some people start to get daring and cross the line (which it hasn't yet thank god we are being mature about this) can any french/german/american jokes be kept light hearted

[andersson 285]

To do the same thing in books would be an interesting experiment. Think about Tolstoi's War and Peace: The text would be translated to your language, say to English, but the Russian Dialogue would be in Russian (written in cyrillic letters, of course) and the French dialogue would be in French. Really a good idea?

Not really comparable as subtitles in a book would be strange. In a movie you hear the other language while getting the story through the subtitles, but why look at a text that you dont understand..

[Alpha-Kilo 36]

andersson, I wrote this in reply to #53 by laqueesha. Subtitling was not the subject. But I agree with you: Subtitles in books don't make sense.

[Commando84 0]

I think the game producers are a bit too American-centric. When it's Americans making the games then I can't really blame them for liking their own country, but others should not blindly follow them into that. I argue there is enough profit to be made elsewhere than in America that everyone do not have to kiss American ass to be a profitable game company.

And they are being too "politically correct", too. I hate political correctness. And no I am not a 'punk', or an anarchist, far from it. I've just noticed that "political correctness" is used as an excuse for a lot of things I don't like. Hypocrisy. It's very much an American thing. Sure, others are hypocritical, too, but I see there is a massive concentration of hypocrisy in America. It's not welcome. Fortunately not all of them are so hypocritical.

The reason game producers are Us centric is that they wanna sell their games in the Us. So they get easier sold over there on the other side of the lake :D

Its just a bit shame that the market is always the biggest in the Us but I guess they sometimes pay the price ( the financial crisis ).

Im finnish but I lived in Sweden 99% of my life so I feel more Swedish but sometimes I don't feel offended by anything. I mean I know both Swe and Fin had their reasons to what their goverments where doing during ww2 but I mean people who get upset easily should think twice or get a scoop of ice cream to chill their brains down a bit imo..

When reading jokes about people its always good to know the history but sometimes I just wonder if the americans are just thinking they own the world wich they don't even though they try to influence everywhere :D

But almost everyone wants the world more or less adjust to their own ways.

It could be anything from wanting the busses to go more often to having the exact same laws to the "." and ","

But I guess europeans want america to remove deathsentance and americans want to make europeans to accept their trade laws.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Commando84

[maturin 12]

The reason game producers are Us centric is that they wanna sell their games in the Us. So they get easier sold over there on the other side of the lake :D

Having U.S. centric games isn't the worst bit. What that's title about the French Resistance that had to have an Irishman working in the resistance so it would sell?