Don't you hate it when you try to spread the word of arma and...

[NoRailgunner 0]

Such things like AI can "see/hear" through hills and buildings happen sometimes - even on Utes the AI is able to tell from Strelka that some enemy cars and units are in Kamenyy. On the other hand sometimes the AI even doesnt recognize and react on enemies if they are within 20m.

Probably some more optimizations on AI/FSM would make the behaviour more plausible. As for now its fully understandable if you dont want to fight with the AI and their "stuck-in-danger" and "not-following-order" behaviour.

[Herbal Influence 10]

But isn't that pure realism?

You can hear through buildings - sometime.

You can hear units in Strelka from Kameny - depends on the wind and the noises the unit makes.

And not reacting to enemies a 20 m afar - to me it's just human - they clearly are in a shock sometimes. I would be and I allow my AI-mates to be too.

Same goes with "stuck in danger" - would you ran around when you can be sure to be shot down?

I love it like it is.

But daily I meet the same frustrations as the original poster - it remains simply difficult to explain in words the fascination of BIS games.

But that may be a result of their nature: They are immensely open and complex.

[galzohar 31]

Just make sure an AI hears you once (and don't make any noise after that) when he's around the corner. Go into 3rd person (enable it just for this test) and move around while staying out of his line of sight. Often he will track you with his rifle as you move even though you are not shooting or doing anything that would make a human able to track you at all.

The AI definitely cheats (though often not as much as people say it does), but then again which game exactly doesn't have cheating AI? I can't think of any. Improvements would be nice, but to go play other games just because the AI in Arma 2 cheats doesn't make sense.

[HyperU2 11]

They cheat in every game, the result is just more unforgiving in ARMA.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Cheating AI is a problem if its too obvious. ;)

AI refusing orders that are given by player should be fixed.

If you have to withdraw or move to a better position the AI team should follow like soldiers are trained to do. This actual slowmo-stuck-in-danger behaviour is far from reality.

[Whoatherefatty 10]

Cheating AI is a problem if its too obvious. ;)

AI refusing orders that are given by player should be fixed.

If you have to withdraw or move to a better position the AI team should follow like soldiers are trained to do. This actual slowmo-stuck-in-danger behaviour is far from reality.

It would be okay if randomly a soldier would freak out and become insubordinate. I'm sure it doesn't happen to often but if you're gonna have a panic attack a firefight might be a fitting place. As it is the AI seems to respond to my ALL SAFE commands pretty consistently. Its when I place a behavior in a waypoint that I find they ignore it.

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

And I bet many others enjoy the super realistic feature in Arma 2 where you can just press tab in a helicopter and destroy every enemy vehicle in a timeframe of a few seconds. Or the one where your grenades bounce like superballs and sink into the floor of a building, damaging nobody. Or building a base out of thin air and buying soldiers and vehicles from the buildings you just placed. Not to mention getting shot, after which a medic completely heals you in 5 seconds, even less time than the regeneration ability of the CoD series.

and all the litle boys and girls think this is wat war is all abouth.

go to the nearest recruiting station and enlist for the army.

to find out how horrible and unfair war is in real life...

watching those nice shot of limbs for breakfast,

receive phisical problems like post traumatic stress syndrom as a free gift for being such a fine soldier...u served your country well my boy/girl....

thank u good bye :)

guys these are games.... ment to be enjoyable.

[celery 8]

guys these are games.... ment to be enjoyable.

Which is why it's stupid to talk down how others should enjoy themselves. Realism isn't a holy grail that justifies itself with itself, it completely depends on what the game wants to achieve. Only a retard can't tell the difference between games and reality, and sadly the most borderline cases I have seen regarding that are in this community and not Call of Duty or any other.

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

i must clearify..

i tried to quote a messege that had a quote in it allready but aparently it only took one part of that messege wich was your messege so my reaction wasnt only pointed to u personaly Celery, its more pointed to everybody whining abouth wich game is more superior....

and i partialy agree to your reaction, except abouth those borderline cases :)

[ryguy 10]

What pisses me off is that Domination! (No offense to the creators of the mission) servers are constantly running just that mission all day and night and turning Arma 2 into exactly what it ISN'T: Run and Gun! They let you parachute anywhere you want on the map, instantly putting you in the action. If you get shot down while parachuting, no big deal, just parachute again. It totally and ruthlessly destroys team-based gaming. It's like I might as well be playing MW2, all of these lone men running around with full auto and a SMAW.

[[GLT] Legislator 66]

What pisses me off is that Domination! (No offense to the creators of the mission) servers are constantly running just that mission all day and night and turning Arma 2 into exactly what it ISN'T: Run and Gun! They let you parachute anywhere you want on the map, instantly putting you in the action. If you get shot down while parachuting, no big deal, just parachute again. It totally and ruthlessly destroys team-based gaming. It's like I might as well be playing MW2, all of these lone men running around with full auto and a SMAW.

That's no fault of the mission itself, it's the setting of the mission creator. Domination offers the option to have a parajump every 30 minutes or even disable it completely on the airport.

Regarding realism ... it's funny. ArmA II is only a game with some realism aspects but it will never be equal to any reality setting. In ArmA II you can drive across the whole country/island within minutes, in reality it would take hours. In ArmA II a single soldier can kill hundreds of mindless AI units within 1-2 hours of playing. In reality a combat situation can take several hours having "only" a few losses on both sides. When guard duty is an important duty in real life situations, it's boring in ArmA II mostly. Well, you can mod the game as "realistic" as you want having choppers that can only be used by 2 players. You can create and mod almost everything, but at the end you'll still have a game having it's limitations due to game engine, client and server hardware.

Now when I show someone else ArmA II I don't show them the "realism", but how the game is a platform for ideas and creativity. Create something, use it and share to others. That's the spirit of the Bohemian Saga for years now.

Ahm, by the way, a new game mode is in the works :) It's called frontline warfare and can be considered a mix of Domination, Warfare, Attack & Secure yet having it possible to use it in a quiet mode for coop missions.

Edited April 9, 2010 by [GLT] Legislator

[Ish 11]

ArmA can't compete with the amount of Mindless Sheep that are playing Call of Duty and such. Especially with the console kiddies flooding the market.

ArmA actually requires THINKING, you can't just run out and gun down 100 people. Thus that drives away about 95% of it's potential customers (And that's probably a good thing, the less clueless players the better)

Quality over Quantity.

This is ignorant if anything.

I've played lots of generic FPS games through the years, such as CS, CoD and Battlefield series. They both pose unique challenges.

You make it sound like "gunning down 100 people" is easy. Now I know you only use this as an expression and don't mean it down to the last word but still. So FPS games don't need thinking? Are you kidding me?

ArmA too has it's fair share of these "clueless" players FYI.

Jeez, why does it always have to come down to these two camps.. Why can't we all just accept each other? Seriously annoying..

Why don't you just leave these "clueless" people alone then, if they're "mindless sheeps".. People like you are the problem and those are the facts.

End of thread/

[nomdeplume 0]

Just make sure an AI hears you once (and don't make any noise after that) when he's around the corner. Go into 3rd person (enable it just for this test) and move around while staying out of his line of sight. Often he will track you with his rifle as you move even though you are not shooting or doing anything that would make a human able to track you at all.

I've tried this in the past and the only thing I've been able to witness is the AI's prediction. That is, if you walk behind a building and keep walking it'll track you as you walk along out of its side, then if it doesn't see you for a bit it'll shift its focus back to where you were last seen (i.e. just before you went behind the building).

But if you walk behind the building and immediately stop, the AI will do exactly the same thing: keep "tracking" where it thinks you'd be if you maintained your speed. This can kind of be exploited to give you a free shot at the enemy, but their SA is high enough that they'll normally spot you as soon as you pop your head out unless you wait just long enough for them to have turned a fair bit, but not so long they've decided their predicted path was incorrect and reset their gaze to your last known location.

If you play as a subordinate in an AI-led squad with the target indicator enabled for long enough, you'll see this as well. Normally the predicted location is believable enough that you might assume another member of your squad has eyes-on, but sometimes it can be quite unbelievable and as a human you can second-guess this second-guessing. I've had an AI leader tell me to engage an AA-pod out over the sea when I knew for a fact it was in the enemy base over the hill in front of us (because I put it there), which just goes to show that even if an AI is reacting to something it doesn't necessarily have an accurate location for it.

Similarly in a firefight in a village, I've had a target indicator that went halfway across the village because the target had sprinted into cover and the predicted path kept moving. But as a player I know the AI never sprints halfway across a village in one go, so I knew the target location on the HUD was bogus.

[galzohar 31]

Sometimes they will track, yes, but sometimes they just know where you are and will turn left/right accordingly. Even if they had never seen you but just heard your shots from close enough distance. It might be an issue with certain walls or whatever, I don't know, but the fact is that this thing happens.

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah I had one tracking me yesterday but when I turned direction he was able to shoot me as soon as I peeked out.

[-Shifty- 10]

Since we're talking about AI...

If you're ordered to get into a vehicle during a fight, I can promise you that you'll be so damn fast to get into it you won't even think of doing anything else. So waiting 2 minutes till some retard gets in your HMMWV so you can pull out does get annoying. Especially during my quick suppress and flanking tactics.

Or if I attack a city, and need to retreat and pull out to attack from a different direction because of a tank, I don't want them to be going so slow I could make a camp fire and roast marshmallows.

Keep in mind I only play Warfare, so you can see the need for reacting AI.

[HyperU2 11]

Yeah I was doing that "rescue the downed helo crew" mission in Dom the other day and while while waiting 3 minutes for the crew to get in my little bird we were overrun. We were being fired upon and they thought the better option would be to duke it out with MP5's rather than fly away.

[icewindo 29]

What pisses me off is that Domination! (No offense to the creators of the mission) servers are constantly running just that mission all day and night and turning Arma 2 into exactly what it ISN'T: Run and Gun! They let you parachute anywhere you want on the map, instantly putting you in the action. If you get shot down while parachuting, no big deal, just parachute again. It totally and ruthlessly destroys team-based gaming. It's like I might as well be playing MW2, all of these lone men running around with full auto and a SMAW.

Oh yep public servers are a no-go for me, domination and evolution (ArmA1) killed the game. They turn the game into a BF2/CoD screwup.

No respawn, no teleporting, no mobile spawns, no ranking system ftw .

Edited April 9, 2010 by Icewindo

[Flash Thunder 10]

oh yep public servers are a no-go for me, domination and evolution (arma1) killed the game. They turn the game into a bf2/cod screwup.

No respawn, no teleporting, no mobile spawns, no ranking system ftw .

this this this this this this

[Whoatherefatty 10]

..... it will never be equal to any reality setting. In ArmA II you can drive across the whole country/island within minutes, in reality it would take hours....

Umm.... No it wouldn't. Chernarus is a fictional country. If it were real it would still be the same size. So you would still be able to walk/drive/fly across it in the same amount of time. There are small countries ya know.

I would say some of the biggest "realism" faux pas arma commits are parachutes falling out of the sky at about 10 mph, an archaic physics system which makes APC's do barrel rolls almost any time you cross a bridge too fast and the speach. Even with the problems you can encounter the gameplay, AI and general focus of the game is definitely the most grounded war shooter out there.

End of thread/

Oh no you didn't just end my thread:p

PS: my final thoughts on the AI hearing you. I live in nowhere town USA. Only about an hour from San Francisco but it's very rural where I live. On a quiet night I can hear trucks on the highway nearly a mile away to the east. And to the west at the base of the foothils you can hear dove hunters during the summer. 12 guage shotties from about a mile away. Just faint pops but as a hunter myself the sound is unmistakable. So I can see how they would hear the loud ass military vehicles from a great distance. Oh, and if you crank your speakers to the point that a helicopter flying overhead would just about blow them out you would hear a lot of distant noises too.

[Zipper5 74]

As far as I know, the Chernarus we have in Arma2 is actually only a small portion of Chernarus called South Zagoria. I'd imagine it's a Province or State within the country, or something similar. I think the entire country of Chernarus is much larger.

[Whoatherefatty 10]

As far as I know, the Chernarus we have in Arma2 is actually only a small portion of Chernarus called South Zagoria. I'd imagine it's a Province or State within the country, or something similar. I think the entire country of Chernarus is much larger.

That's the way I thought it was. Kind of like Oblivion. The playable area is only a small part or a state/province of the entire country.

[ryguy 10]

There's a map if you go to Arma2.com and look at the document labeled "Chernarus". South Zagoria is a region of Chernarus, and south zagoria itself goes all the way up to Russia. Chernarus itself is about 6 times the size.

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, Chernarus is quite smaller than the area of New York City (Chernarus is only 15X15=225 square kilometers).....

[ryguy 10]

really? Wow, that's surprising to me... OK I wanna see how much BI can push the limit in the amount of map space.