Project Reality Development

[luckyhendrix 10]

I hope it will be possible to play both ACE2 and PR, cause I don't see how these 2 mods wouldn't be compatible. ACE2 is focusing on making ARMA more realistic.

While PR is more about making it more playable in PvP. Both at the same time would be an incredible experience IMO.

Pr stuff could simply be done with missions (if you exclude the new vehicles that of course requires addons,) I don't understand why it needs a mod.

[Lhowon 10]

While the discrepancy in player numbers can't be totally attributed to the lack of good PVP modes (Battlefield is a mainstream, extremely popular franchise so even though PR is a mod it's still drawing from a massively larger player base) I still think it entirely true that it is a major factor in why ArmA 2 multiplayer isn't as popular as it could be.

This is why I think PR's stand-alone approach is very important. If we want to see anything like the numbers BF2 PR draws the mod has to be a single, uniform package with recognisable gameplay so that people can load it up and jump straight on a server without having to worry about compatibility or any of the other factors that can make ArmA 2 multiplayer hard to get into. I wouldn't make this argument if we were talking about co-op, as I think that's in a much more healthy state with some fantastic communities based around that style of gameplay, but large-scale PVP requires a different approach. I think PR's approach is a practical necessity.

[Jax_2009 10]

While the discrepancy in player numbers can't be totally attributed to the lack of good PVP modes (Battlefield is a mainstream, extremely popular franchise so even though PR is a mod it's still drawing from a massively larger player base) I still think it entirely true that it is a major factor in why ArmA 2 multiplayer isn't as popular as it could be.

This is why I think PR's stand-alone approach is very important. If we want to see anything like the numbers BF2 PR draws the mod has to be a single, uniform package with recognisable gameplay so that people can load it up and jump straight on a server without having to worry about compatibility or any of the other factors that can make ArmA 2 multiplayer hard to get into. I wouldn't make this argument if we were talking about co-op, as I think that's in a much more healthy state with some fantastic communities based around that style of gameplay, but large-scale PVP requires a different approach. I think PR's approach is a practical necessity.

BF2 is popular because it is easy to play, right out of the box. Arma takes intellegence to play. I have been playing both game series (BF and OFP/Arma) since their creation many years ago. If the purpose of PR is to make it more like BF2 then I won't be playing it at all. I like the mature community of Arma, it is what actually draws me to the game. I do not like the BF community because it is primarily comprised of immature kids and teenagers who do not give a shit about the game play or the commradery of the team...all they care about is the next kill and who has the highest score.

I have seen many mod teams over the years, try to pull a mod from another game and do the same to OFP/ArmA/ArmA II and fail, because they are basing their goals, decisions, and vision off of the previous game. I see no difference with the PR mod as I did with those many other mods in the past. Arma is a tactical military simulator and is meant to be difficult and challanging to play. You say the purpose of your mod is to "To create a realistic and immersive modification for ArmA2, which focuses on encouraging teamwork through gameplay"...has your team ever seriously played ArmA? Go download ACE2 and some PvP missions and then tell me how easy it is to play without using teamwork. ArmA was designed with teamplay in mind as it is the basis for VBS1 and VBS2, which is used by militarys around the world as their tactical simulator.

Seems to me that all you are doing is trying to reinvent the wheel or fix something that ain't broke.

I truly hope your goal is not to make ArmA II more like BF2 because, if I want to dumb things down and make it easier I would just go play BF2...guess that's just my opinion. I think the "PR Mod" is not going to be good for the ArmA community in it's current direction. You would be better served colaborating with a team that has already mastered the very aspects you look to change or "improve". Your teams inability to listen to some of the most experienced modders and players in the ArmA community and the talk of limiting servers is also very disturbing. Unlike the BF community, ArmA II relies on the cohesive partnership of our modders and the ability to work together for the sake of the game and not the sake of an individual mod.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Jax_2009

[sparks50 0]

has your team ever seriously played ArmA? Go download ACE2 and some PvP missions and then tell me how easy it is to play without using teamwork.

Have you ever played Arma public? Not exactly the haven of team work. In PR on BF2 on the other hand, teamwork is almost the standard.

So how about getting off the high horse for a moment? I myself is eager to see what they can do with the Arma 2 public situation.

And in the meantime, Ill stay on closed servers where things actually make a bit of sense, and people dont run off with Javelins and sniper rifles to single handedly "take over a town."

Edited March 16, 2010 by sparks50

[dunedain 48]

I do not like the BF community because it is primarily comprised of immature kids and teenagers who do not give a shit about the game play or the commradery of the team...all they care about is the next kill and who has the highest score.

Those people you describe don't play PR on Bf2, have you even tried the game cause even if your description is accurate when it comes to the average Bf2 vanilla gamer it's way off the mark on Project Reality.

I truly hope your goal is not to make ArmA II more like BF2 because, if I want to dumb things down and make it easier I would just go play BF2..

Actually I think they're doing this mod to avoid some Bf2 limitations and extend the pvp dimension on Arma2. Plus that if you had played Pr you would know that the game is really slow and hard, it's not like Arma2 coops where you kill dozens of dumb IAs in a game, actually kills on Pr are really gratifying. You should just forget Bf2 when you talk about Project Reality.

You would be better served colaborating with a team that has already mastered the very aspects you look to change or "improve".

They aren't unexperienced modders on the Real Virtuality, you know.

Your teams inability to listen to some of the most experienced modders and players in the ArmA community and the talk of limiting servers is also very disturbing.

Please, stop meddling. Many people are really excited by what this mod wants to accomplish, except those few whining all along this thread...

Edited March 16, 2010 by dunedain

[cool=azroul13 14]

I have seen many mod teams over the years, try to pull a mod from another game and do the same to OFP/ArmA/ArmA II and fail, because they are basing their goals, decisions, and vision off of the previous game. I see no difference with the PR mod as I did with those many other mods in the past. Arma is a tactical military simulator and is meant to be difficult and challanging to play. You say the purpose of your mod is to "To create a realistic and immersive modification for ArmA2, which focuses on encouraging teamwork through gameplay"...has your team ever seriously played ArmA? Go download ACE2 and some PvP missions and then tell me how easy it is to play without using teamwork. ArmA was designed with temaplay in mind as it is the basis for VBS1 and VBS2, which is used by militarys around the world as their tacticle simulator.

+ 1000 ;)

I play at PR: BF and Arma II ACE with some friend who play much PR than me.

When my friend see Arma II, they are in extase for this game, for they it will be a very nice game. The only problem is the organisation on the server and they don't like some PvP scenario for arma (deathmatch and Warfare), they prefer AAS map and Insurgency like in P.R and for me this scenario are really nice.

But they really like feature in ACE core!!

The problem in arma is not the nmerous addons, you see multiplayer thet the mod most used are ACE; ACEX; GL4 (sometimes); and some map Duala; Panthera; Podagorsk; Namalsk.....

The need of the community is not to have a new stand alone mod, I understand a stand alone mod for a new age like WWII where some feature of ACE is not needed, but not a standalone mod for the same feature maybe less than ACE and just more addons of vehicle or units and more map and scenario!! :butbut:

I thinck the only that arma miss is a good PvP scenario like scenario in P.R but no more!!

I play in P.R and I found same problem than in arma's server, sometimes you fight alone or just with 4 or 5 teammate and their are sometines no coordination between the different group !!

Edited March 16, 2010 by Cool=Azroul13

[TimRiceSE 10]

Im looking forward very much to seeing what the PR team can bring to the table.

Certainly I cannot understand why so many people are talking BS about "have to use CBA" this and "make it compatible with x" blah. When an established mod team starts a project on your game, you dont take a crap on them and tell them how to run their ship. If they want to make it from scratch and write their own version of CBA, then so be it. This is a large team we're talking about, im sure theyre capable of it. As has been mentioned several times already in this thread, having it as a "one stop" modification that contains all you need for good competitive online pvp public play is probably the best thing to make it succesful. No messing around with different verisons of 5 different addons.

Nothing bad can come of this, I dont get some peoples attitudes....

[User2010 10]

BF2 is popular because it is easy to play, right out of the box. Arma takes intellegence to play. I have been playing both game series (BF and OFP/Arma) since their creation many years ago. If the purpose of PR is to make it more like BF2 then I won't be playing it at all. I like the mature community of Arma, it is what actually draws me to the game. I do not like the BF community because it is primarily comprised of immature kids and teenagers who do not give a shit about the game play or the commradery of the team...all they care about is the next kill and who has the highest score.

I have seen many mod teams over the years, try to pull a mod from another game and do the same to OFP/ArmA/ArmA II and fail, because they are basing their goals, decisions, and vision off of the previous game. I see no difference with the PR mod as I did with those many other mods in the past. Arma is a tactical military simulator and is meant to be difficult and challanging to play. You say the purpose of your mod is to "To create a realistic and immersive modification for ArmA2, which focuses on encouraging teamwork through gameplay"...has your team ever seriously played ArmA? Go download ACE2 and some PvP missions and then tell me how easy it is to play without using teamwork. ArmA was designed with teamplay in mind as it is the basis for VBS1 and VBS2, which is used by militarys around the world as their tactical simulator.

Seems to me that all you are doing is trying to reinvent the wheel or fix something that ain't broke.

I truly hope your goal is not to make ArmA II more like BF2 because, if I want to dumb things down and make it easier I would just go play BF2...guess that's just my opinion. I think the "PR Mod" is not going to be good for the ArmA community in it's current direction. You would be better served colaborating with a team that has already mastered the very aspects you look to change or "improve". Your teams inability to listen to some of the most experienced modders and players in the ArmA community and the talk of limiting servers is also very disturbing. Unlike the BF community, ArmA II relies on the cohesive partnership of our modders and the ability to work together for the sake of the game and not the sake of an individual mod.

Even "IF" everything you said were true, at the end of the day no one is forcing you to play it, so how about you move on and continue playing arma2 the way you see fit.

Edited March 16, 2010 by User2010

[NoRailgunner 0]

Nevertheless it would be nice to see some unedited (not tuned/faked) ingame scenes - perhaps with a split screen one with default Arma2 and the other with PR mod? :)

[Panda_pl 0]

Have you ever played Arma public? Not exactly the haven of team work. In PR on BF2 on the other hand, teamwork is almost the standard.

I remember it (PR) tried to force players into teamwork by some half-measures.

Classic example of introducing nonrelism to work around another nonrelism.

I have experienced spontaneous cooperation erupting in both BF2PR and Arma, difference being in Arma for tactical reason (to fight or move), in BF to move spawnpoint or get a better weapon (bonus-motivated approach).

But let's get over it and head into ArmA realm.

What worries me is your thinking is still in BF land. You are limited by preconceptions.

"Can we limit kits like in BF2", "can we have class system like in BF2"...

I think stamina system removes the need for both. You'll soon find out that carrying a Javelin on-foot practically means you cannot carry anything else, perhaps a carbine and merely a few magazines.

You will also discover you cannot move with machinegun outside of squad - one person cannot carry both light machinegun AND combat load of ammo.

You will soon discover M82 Barret is barely mobile and lighter sniper rifles are easily dwarfed by capabilities of M240 fire (which in turn requires cooperation, unless you want to run out of ammo in 90 seconds).

Machinegun is also useless in close combat.

As for AT launchers, carrying one limits your capability to carry other stuff significantly, just like IRL. People will avoid taking too many of them.

Additionally I would like to point out that sniping in Arma, with wind and bullet drop, will require skills that most people are not proficient with. You have to train with certain weapons, some are not straight forward. So de facto a class system is there already, just among the players. ;)

Do not try to move the same solutions from BF2 to Arma2, instead try to ask yourself "what stops an army from equipping all of its soldiers with sniper rifles or AT4s ?".

EDIT: of course, you're not hurting Arma community in any way, you're missing the point. No one is hostlie towards you, you're oversensitive. This is called criticism.

You opened a topic for discussion, so we're discussing. Don't open up a thread and then act offended.

If you ask others for opinions it sometimes backfires and you end up surprised. That's life.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Panda_pl

[LkFp 10]

...

Nothing bad can come of this, I dont get some peoples attitudes....

Well, people are always afraid of change, possibly threatening their favourites :)

I must admit, I'm also bit sceptical about this, but we'll see. I never played BF:PR nor even BF, so basically I don't know what I'm talking about ( :p ) BUT isn't cooperation and teamwork one of the most trained parts in military? Because it is just so damn hard to cooperate.

I doubt that any mod whatever hard/realistic/playable it is will miraculously make all their players team mates you can rely on, especially on public servers playing with complete strangers.

But I will be gladly mistaken, anyway good luck to devs. Size of your team is impressive.

[Rhodesy77 11]

omg everyone saying "omg stop telling them to use cba and let them do it how they want!!!!1111" howabout you learn what cba is used for first before you jump the gun...

[TRexian 0]

I think some posts are being overly critical, however - especially about something that isn't even released yet. :)

For instance, Panda, your post clearly reflects an ArmA2 that is ACE2-dependent. You may enjoy ACE2 very much, so prefer that style of gameplay. That's fantastic, and it is normal that you would want any other addon to use ACE2, also.

But, that doesn't appear to be the gameplay that PR wants.

Also, your point about introducing non-realism to get around other non-realism can also be applied to any other mod or addon, including ACE2. That's why it is called a "simulation." :)

BF2 was/is very popular. I never played it, but I have friends who enjoyed it very much. I think PR *should* try to bring solutions from BF2 to A2. It would bring a new and unique perspective to A2. I may not like it, but I can see the value of it.

Frankly, I don't like zombie mods. But, that doesn't stop me from recognizing that there is a fun element to them - shooting anything that moves. :) And, the fact that some people love them is undeniable.

Same with PR. Their style of gameplay clearly appeals to some people. Those people deserve to enjoy A2 as much as any other A2 owner.

[User2010 10]

Well, people are always afraid of change, possibly threatening their favourites :)

Comments from some in the arma2 community here and on PR forum does indeed give me this impression.

[Panda_pl 0]

.....

Thanks for your patronizing speech.

Define "overly critical". AFAIK there is no such thing, it's out there with gremlins and "constructive criticism".

The point about non-realism workarounds still stands because, frankly, some mods try to avoid it, while others dive into it. It's a design philosophy issue and I do not claim ACE got it right in every case (the handgun accuracy and rifle dispersions too poor).

As for what PR can bring into Arma: if they come up with really neat system others will copy that right away. I don't want it to sound bad but gameplay and sounds are the two possible strong sides of the mod... The graphics not necessarily, unless they can legally port over the British weapons (ones in arma are not as good).

Comments from some in the arma2 community here and on PR forum does indeed give me this impression.

We do not bring discussions from other sites into these forums.

[hund 0]

Right on the money, TRexian - preconceptions are ripe around here, as I am sure they are over in BF2 land as well. Let's just ignore that.

The mod will tap into a vastly underdeveloped marketshare in Armadom, and I am very happy about that. So happy in fact, that I think we should just let them get on with business and see how it all pans out.

No need to get all upset about nothing, mmkay? And that goes for fanbois of either stripe.

If the nay-sayers don't like the final product, there is nothing stopping them from doing their own, even better, PvP mod in the future, how about that?

--- And I am quite sure he was not trying to patronize you, Panda dude.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Hund

[User2010 10]

I have experienced spontaneous cooperation erupting in both BF2PR and Arma, difference being in Arma for tactical reason (to fight or move), in BF to move spawnpoint or get a better weapon (bonus-motivated approach).

What a load of rubbish. I won't even bother reading the rest of your post when you start dishing out nonsense like that.

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

I think we should just let them get on with business and see how it all pans out.

I'm sure the PR team are happy that they now have your approval.

Thank you.

[hund 0]

Why aren't you just the little troll, Mr. User?

I am on your side here, largely. Panda does have a point in that PR is much more gamey than your generic Arma mission, but I don't particularly mind that to be honest.

My only concern is that licensing thing, but I want to see what it is all about before I start crying my eyes out.

[Average-Joe 0]

Great to see the PR team get their teeth stuck into ArmA2...might just revive my long lost interest in the game.

Goodluck PR, I await the goodstuff :)

[User2010 10]

Why aren't you just the little troll, Mr. User?

I am on your side here, largely. Panda does have a point in that PR is much more gamey than your generic Arma mission, but I don't particularly mind that to be honest.

My only concern is that licensing thing, but I want to see what it is all about before I start crying my eyes out.

:o my mistake.. it's just some of the attitude here fits that statement.

here's the link for the current PR:bf2 server licence http://www.realitymod.com/forum/licenseapp.php

[craig.turner 10]

Jax_2009, and a few others I find your posts a little insulting if I am honest?

PR - BF2 is nothing at all like BF2, if you have played it you would know this, so I see no reason to compare it.

If you look at the current team we have in place working on the Project - I think you will find they know a little about ArmA2 ;)

# [R-DEV]UK_Force - Operations Lead

# StalkerGB

# Deanosbeano

# Dr_Eyeball

# trini_scourge

# norrin

# Mandoble

# fromz

# Cougar

# Palehorse1

We also have a number of the PR - BF2 Devs who play and script in clans for ArmA2 and have done for a number of years .... we do not live in the stone age !!

In regards to making ArmA2 a BF2 style Mod, I think you underestimate the team - and you seem to have some thought process that we are going to make it as such ..... we are not, we are a Development Team, who are looking at modding another engine to bring something that in our opinion and a lot of the community here is missing ..... good PvP.

You say this is a Mature Community - unlike the childish BF2 community ?

So I take it ArmA2 has none of this ... however looking through the forums, I see lots of posts that refer to players like this ?

PR has its own Community of Teamwork based players, which are far from childish, they play online with other Humans, as a team, and in an organised fashion.

Our Community sits at just under 42,000, they are not childish or lonewolves at all ... in Project Reality you can not play like that .... I think you are referring to V BF2 here.

At the end of the Day we are entitled to run this Mod how we want are we not ?

We are an experienced team having been in Development for over 7 years now - have won Mod of the Year and runners up previous, so are not that naive.

We are also in the process of developing our own Retail Game as we have the ability to do that, with our own Engine Licence.

I find a lot of these comments degrading and insulting if I am honest, and am disappointed that people would speak in such a way to an established Development team.

:(

.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Craig.Turner

[TRexian 0]

Thanks for your patronizing speech.

Sorry for any offense Panda, it was NOT intended. I've a GREAT deal of respect for you (I refer to your posts often)!

Define "overly critical". AFAIK there is no such thing, it's out there with gremlins and "constructive criticism".

I disagree, respectfully. "Overly critical" in this sense means discouraging to the recipient. BTW, I think "constructive criticism" is easy - it is encouraging. Gremlins, I think they tend to play with unicorns.

Explaining one time that CBA is a small addon that solves many problems is polite, and constructive. Twice, starts to get pushy. Three times and it is really kinda rude. These guys obviously know the lay of the land and have done their research. They know what CBA is, and is not, and have opted not to use it. They likely have their own solutions.

The point about non-realism workarounds still stands because...

Ah... perhaps we agree then?

As for what PR can bring into Arma: if they come up with really neat system others will copy that right away.

I don't think that's a bad thing! Enjoyment of something can be motivating. I like the ACE-type mines, but don't like the "overhead" of ACE features. So, I'm working on my own ACE-inspired mine addon. Duplication is the sincerest form of flattery, eh?

Again, sorry for any offense. This mod is not even released yet, so technically, there's nothing to be critical of. We can only question their philosophy and framework, and I guess be critical of what they did for BF.

All this is IMHO, and I welcome honest disagreement.

Edit:

@User2010

I, too, have witnessed spontaneous team-based gameplay in A2. I don't do MP very much, but when I do, it is always enjoyable and I am impressed with the play of A2 players generally. Of course, they are (almost without exception) better than me.

Edited March 16, 2010 by TRexian

[stephsen 79]

do not take from you everything so to hug UKF here there are also many crazy guys ... continues thus PR it is best and most tactical mod at the moment gives

[hund 0]

Hmm, thanks for the link Mr. User, but how does that pertain to user created content?

Are we legally allowed to expand/create/port missions using PRA, for instance?

The thing about our little community is that we have a disproportionally large percentage of grease monkeys around. People want to see how stuff works, and then they want to make more stuff that works with the first stuff, if that stuff was cool and all.

As for mature communities, we have our clowns over here, as i am sure you do over there as well, Mr. Force. That is unavoidable, i am afraid. For the most part I would just bear with it. We tried putting funny hats on them for recognition, but that didn't really work too well.

[minimalaco 30]

they do not make case to commentaries without sense, much success and I hope leaves soon :D