AA is way too overpowered

[Daniel 0]

Anybody can fly low, but with an AV8B (Using Mk.82s) how can you bomb the sucker? You would have to pass over him, then lock, then use Hydras and hope you don't miss. The bomb falls to fast and it would slaughter me.

Bombing the sucker with Mk82s is going to take teamwork and planning. First off if you do overfly it you should probably be dead. So you'll need someone to spot it first.

Also, you're going to get one shot at it. Go in low, you should get a red marker on your radar. Pop up at the last minute, make a bee line for the Tunguska, drop the bomb, then dip down and bank away or speed past, whichever offers the most cover in case you miss. Not the greatest way to get red of a sophisticated anti aircraft system, but it should work in some cases.

Another annoying thing is if you want to bomb a town you have to fly over it low so they spawn in first. Then they only last so long.

Ah, are you playing warfare or domination or something?

Edited December 31, 2009 by Daniel

[galzohar 31]

ACE2 models tank damage much better and they are actually usefull as can withstand a good deal of damage.

Too much though. M1s in ACE2 can take multiple PG7-VLs to the rear which are supposed to penetrate 500mm of steel which is more than enough to destroy or seriously damage an M1 from behind.

Warfare isnt about "balance" its out about over whelming force. The tung is just that.

Well it's a 2-sided game so if it's not balanced equipment-wise at least the prices should balance it. It's not like the prices are anywhere near realistic either way.

[oxmox 73]

Too much though. M1s in ACE2 can take multiple PG7-VLs to the rear which are supposed to penetrate 500mm of steel which is more than enough to destroy or seriously damage an M1 from behind.

Found a very interesting webpage with a collection of links and lots of pictures of Abrams taken out in IRaQ also from infantry atg´s.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=69838

Edited December 31, 2009 by oxmox

[galzohar 31]

Nice. Though proof isn't really needed, we all know more or less how much armor the M1s have and we more or less know how much different types of RPGs can penetrate. From there it's easy to see that M1s are far from indestructible or anywhere near as resistant as ACE2 makes them be. From the front the implementation is probably reasonable, but from the side I'd doubt the accuracy, and from the rear ACE2's implementation is probably very far from reality.

Some data from somewhere (be it accurate or not, I'd bet the real numbers aren't fundamentally different) for M1A1:

Hull front: 410mm Chobham+depleted uranium

Turret front: 380mm Chobham

Hull side: 200mm Chobham

Turrent side: 300mm Chobham

Rear: 75mm steel

Chobham is said to be ~2.5 times better than steel, so a PG7-VL is probably not going to get through the side (though I dunno if I would count on that), but from the rear... 75mm of steel is really nothing - not a whole lot more than your standard "any rpg disables me" IFV/APC (and don't get me started about how easily IFVs/APCs in this game survive things that should blow them to hell more often than not).

[KNac 10]

You may be right, but that's a very simplistic analisys: armour placement, angle, reactive armour (and different types), etc. all act as strength multipliers, and matters A LOT.

But yeah, probably tanks are too much strong in the rear where they would get disabled, at least, from a direct short range hit. Then again, accuracy of RPG's, sepcially rpg-7 are a bit too high compared to what you would see IRL.

[galzohar 31]

Yeah, I can say from seeing guys firing RPGs in training that hitting the stuff we hit in the game is quite hard if not impossible, but then again we also get very little training with the RPG. While it does get issued around here on the platoon level, it doesn't really end up getting used.

[Alex72 1]

Mission design is very important in this game. Giving every eAI squad RPG will render it almost useless to use armor on your side.

It is hard to design a well made mission, but it can be done. :)

[Daniel 0]

It would be nice though if the RPG was a bit more useless. It would make using IFVs to support infantry a little less black and white.

Currently it's either

A: Kill everything with your cannon and not get engaged, leaving the infantry with very little to do bar clear positions.

OR

B: Get whacked by a sniper RPG and explode instantly.

Coming under fire from RPGs, seeing some whizz past, maybe having one or two bounce off, knock off your tracks, or on occasion cause you to brew up, would at least be nice.

Think we're going off topic though.

[terox 316]

seems that this thread has only 1 contributor that realises the guy was cheating

One guy actually managed to find him and lock onto him with an AH64, he put 8 hellfires into him and he took 3 or 4 AA missiles and blew up.

Get a grip

Edited January 1, 2010 by Terox

[Cowboy Pilot 10]

Answer to you problem: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=92438

No kidding. Look for solutations first, thats why there is a mod community. Also Go ACE mod.

[-Shifty- 10]

I'm quite displeased with the gameplay in ArmA2, The AI has God aim and there's no realistic engagements. Between humans it's great (Berzerk) but in COOP or Warfare it's ridiculous.

I thought this was supposed to be a type of simulator?

The moment the first bullets buzzes past you in war, even if you're a well trained soldier, you're heart rate is going to increase a lot. This will make you aim less accurately. This is why soldiers are trained to remain calm, except only to a certain extent.

In war it's all about suppressive fire and flanking. You pump hundreds (or dozens depending on the battle) of rounds into their cover while another team moves to the flank. People will be pumping bullets out as accurately as possible, except maybe 1 bullet in 2 magazines is going to hit your target. This can lead to fire fights with literally little to no casualties that can last a very long period of time.

(If I'm wrong, vets, please correct me) This is just how I see things.

In ArmA 2 they spot you, and immediately headshot you.

[jakerod 254]

Could you not have used artillery on him? Was he moving around that much?

[oxmox 73]

I'm quite displeased with the gameplay in ArmA2, The AI has God aim and there's no realistic engagements. Between humans it's great (Berzerk) but in COOP or Warfare it's ridiculous.

I thought this was supposed to be a type of simulator?

The moment the first bullets buzzes past you in war, even if you're a well trained soldier, you're heart rate is going to increase a lot. This will make you aim less accurately. This is why soldiers are trained to remain calm, except only to a certain extent.

In war it's all about suppressive fire and flanking. You pump hundreds (or dozens depending on the battle) of rounds into their cover while another team moves to the flank. People will be pumping bullets out as accurately as possible, except maybe 1 bullet in 2 magazines is going to hit your target. This can lead to fire fights with literally little to no casualties that can last a very long period of time.

(If I'm wrong, vets, please correct me) This is just how I see things.

In ArmA 2 they spot you, and immediately headshot you.

There are some nice AI mods out there which simulate exactly what are you looking for...more fights with suppressive fire, flanking aswell not super accurate hits.

Try the SLX mod or maybe Zeus AI in combination with ACE2 ( i did test slx so far) :D

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7045

Iam not sure why the multiplayer servers dont offer SLX or Zeus so far, I did test it offline and the firefights are just great and much more exciting. The AI is even using smoke and frag nades. The AI improvements seems to be a lot better than with only ACE2.

I will try Zeus AI in the next days to see how that mod works...

Anyway, you will see a huge difference.....this would rock in multiplayer for sure, hope to see some servers soon with such improved AI modifications.

Edited January 2, 2010 by oxmox

[bhaz 0]

The whole cheating thing aside, I can't really see where this argument is coming from. AA is overpowered to air, just as a man crouching in the forest 1km away with a Javelin is overpowered to the AA. It's all about the paper > scissors > Abrams.

If you think of ArmA2 as more of a strategic game, there isn't one single unit available that cannot be countered with the use of strategy and tactics.

[-Shifty- 10]

The whole cheating thing aside, I can't really see where this argument is coming from. AA is overpowered to air, just as a man crouching in the forest 1km away with a Javelin is overpowered to the AA. It's all about the paper > scissors > Abrams.

If you think of ArmA2 as more of a strategic game, there isn't one single unit available that cannot be countered with the use of strategy and tactics.

He also took out 3 of my Abrams TUSKs when we tried to go kill him. Then we tried attacking from a different direction with air.

Why go on foot with AT? If you don't even know where he is. He's constantly relocating.

[bhaz 0]

He also took out 3 of my Abrams TUSKs when we tried to go kill him. Then we tried attacking from a different direction with air.

Why go on foot with AT? If you don't even know where he is. He's constantly relocating.

The whole cheating thing aside

I was just posting about the game balancing in general, that there is nothing wrong with it.

The guy you mentioned in the first post was cheating, there's no way a shilka can take more than one hit from any missile or launcher in the game, unless it hits the front corner, test it in the editor if you have to.

[USSRsniper 0]

AA overpowered ? Last time I played online I was able to bomb AA vehicles easily in A-10. Flying low and fast will not help you, you need to make some maneuvers too. It's harder to hit a target which always changes direction, altitude and speed.

And you experienced cheating... Instead of blaming the game, blame the cheaters.

Edited January 7, 2010 by USSRsniper

[-Shifty- 10]

AA overpowered ? Last time I played online I was able to bomb AA vehicles easily in A-10. Flying low and fast will not help you, you need to make some maneuvers too. It's harder to hit a target which always changes direction, altitude and speed. And if player managed to kill you with guns using Shilka or Tunguska, it simply means that somebody sucks at flying...

He was hitting me with those 1 hit kill missiles.

Yesterday I shot a Kamov with 6 stingers, he was 1km from me flying away from me slowly @ about 600m altitude. I watched as each missile blew up about 500m from him and way off target.

Wat?

I have a lot to learn from this game. But I only play Warfare. It's the only mode you can play when you don't have friends playing with you.

[killswitch 19]

He was hitting me with those 1 hit kill missiles.

Yesterday I shot a Kamov with 6 stingers, he was 1km from me flying away from me slowly @ about 600m altitude. I watched as each missile blew up about 500m from him and way off target.

Wat?

I have a lot to learn from this game. But I only play Warfare. It's the only mode you can play when you don't have friends playing with you.

What server are you playing on? Does that server allow people to connect with whatever mods and addons they like? If so, it seems as that other player had some extra addons loaded that add countermeasures (flares etc). If not, he's using "other means" :rolleyes: of defeating the Stingers.

Maybe the particular Warfare mission you're playing has implemented a countermeasures system?

You can not get a fair game on servers that don't at the very least uses signature verification to limit what people connect with. If you persist in playing on servers that allow everything, well...

Edited January 7, 2010 by Killswitch

[-Shifty- 10]

I play on TV2 Warfare, SuicideSquadUK, and Special Warfare

Only BE warfare, no ACE2

[The_Captain 0]

AA missiles should not be able to IR-Lock ground units. Period.

This includes sidewinders, stingers, strelas, and tunguska missiles.

In A2 you can often get radar locks just beyond visual range, which would make a vehicle with 8 ready to launch missiles extremely powerful.

The tunguska would not be nearly as all-around powerful if its missiles could only target air units. (On the flipside, I'm sick of seeing AI gunners wasting their single stinger on a tank, but that is neither here nor there...)

I would really like to see this engine limitation fixed in a later patch (EG: ammo with 'airlock = 2' would *only* be able to target air units).

[-Shifty- 10]

If you don't want your AI stinger units to waste their missile, just like I do with the M136 rifleman, just tell them to hold fire and disengage. Keep them behind you a bit so he doesn't get in the way of the fire fight, then call him up when you need him.