Six updater, ruining everything.

[Fintroll 10]

Greetings

I must say i love ace, but i hate this six updater it comes with, also now i see other mods useing it. It's like a plaque going from one mod to another, can we please not use this damned updater anywhere else.

It just makes things more complicated, why not give us the files we want and we install them the normal way. I love ace, dont get me wrong, i just dislike installing things on my computer.

[Defunkt 431]

I think all releases should be distributed via Six-Updater and so will you sooner or later. It's for you alone to decide if you want to get with the programme now and enjoy the benefits immediately or let your unwillingness to learn new things 'ruin everything'.

[Fintroll 10]

It should be optional, not forced upon you. Another thing is, it takes me 45 seconds to install mod normal way, why the hell would i want some sort of complicated program to do it for me.

Another thing is, if i want to upgrade a mod, i can look what version is available from website. This way I KNOW WHAT ARE THE CHANGES!

[jdmt 12]

It should be optional, not forced upon you. Another thing is, it takes me 45 seconds to install mod normal way, why the hell would i want some sort of complicated program to do it for me.

Another thing is, if i want to upgrade a mod, i can look what version is available from website. This way I KNOW WHAT ARE THE CHANGES!

The SIX Updater is one of the greatest tools ever created for ArmA II, you obviously are either a Troll, or you don't know exactly what the updater does, so please read this guide: http://dev-heaven.net/wiki/six-arma-updater

Sickboy put A LOT of work into this updater, and you come on here and ask people not to use it? This is a Flame war waiting to happen.

[Bavator 8]

It should be optional, not forced upon you.

Nothing is forced upon you, if you don´t like it, don´t play it, simple as that. And there are places you can download ACE the "normal" way, but you´ll have to use the search function...

ACE is a public beta and an updater (be it SVN or SIX updater) is a good way distribute new versions frequently and limit bandwith usage at the same time.

This way I KNOW WHAT ARE THE CHANGES!

THERES A CHANGELOG AVAILABLE AT DEV_HEAVEN!

*facepalms*

ROFL

Edited December 27, 2009 by malibu.stacey

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

You may not like the updater, and i will be the first to admit its very complicated to install (I've helped about 5 friends set it up so far) It is (as was said above) one of the greatest tools ever made.

It may be a bit complicated but it makes it alot easier for addon makers. You want addons to be as bug free as possible as soon as possible? The SIX Updater allows that...

[choco 0]

My issue with the updater isn't the functionality, once you have it set up properly it's great, my issue is the web interface, it's very poorly laid out and there are a LOT of options presented to the player, most of them completely unneeded, but a first time user won't know this and think everything needs to be filled out or selected in some way before they can download anything, It's almost impossible to install a new mod with six-updater without a very detailed guide.

[Fintroll 10]

lol greatest mod tool ever made, only thing that it does is help save bandwith and keeps mod updated. There are lot of free download sources, where you can put your mods.

I personally will not use this, it's complicated and takes too much time, also i want to decide and read mod updates before i install anything. I don't want to learn to use it, i want to play not study a software.

So i wish in future we could have both versions, six version and normal.

[jdmt 12]

My issue with the updater isn't the functionality, once you have it set up properly it's great, my issue is the web interface, it's very poorly laid out and there are a LOT of options presented to the player, most of them completely unneeded, but a first time user won't know this and think everything needs to be filled out or selected in some way before they can download anything, It's almost impossible to install a new mod with six-updater without a very detailed guide.

Run it in Console mode, it skips that part.

lol greatest mod tool ever made, only thing that it does is help save bandwith and keeps mod updated. There are lot of free download sources, where you can put your mods.

I personally will not use this, it's complicated and takes too much time, also i want to decide and read mod updates before i install anything. I don't want to learn to use it, i want to play not study a software.

So i wish in future we could have both versions, six version and normal.

ACE releases a new version every Mon, Wed, and Fri, so if you don't have the same version as the server, it will constantly let you know with very annoying ding sounds, and messages. So you need to use the updater to play online.

[pete10 0]

after many frustrating efforts, i've finally got the thing running.

i agree the six updater is needlessly complicated. over engineered perhaps is the best term. it looks like it might be a good idea eventually - but it needs to be made a lot more user friendly for mugs/luddites like me.

most frustrating perhaps was the lack of clear instructions anywhere on how to use it. in the end it was quite simple, but i had to hunt around to find very clear instructions on how to get it done. there seems to be no end of pages devoted to bug trackers, biki pages (or whatever) and various other high end coding things, but no simple outline of how to install it (i had to watch a youtube vid in german to get the vauge idea) and run it.

in saying this - please do not take it as a sign of discontent with the work that has been put in here. the end product is absolutely fantastic.

it just needs to be a bit more punter friendly - that's the aim after all, right? to include as many people (including the tech challenged) as possible.

[Binkowski 26]

It's a love hate relationship with the six updater. The way I did it, and instructed many of my friends who were to the point of trowing babies across the room is the "lazy method". Since most of them didn't want to take the time to set up the presets, or had problems doing so. I had problems with the presets, but I sorted it out.

[Black1ron 10]

I admit that when I first started, it was a bit difficult for me. But after the first time, it's second nature for me, I just pop it up, put it on the preset I want, and I've got my stuff updated. But I did hate it a bit at first.

[AnimalMother92 10]

haha ownt

I love the SIX updater. If every mod used it, life would be really simple :)

[.kju 3242]

The SIX updater interface should be made a lot simpler with better text naming.

Unfortunately Sickboy sees no priority in it and at the same time no one else is willing

to help out improving the interface coding.

The technical system and approach is excellent, yet the interface still has a long way to go.

[sickboy 13]

In general:

Don't like the software, don't use it. Don't like the web-interface, use the console. Want to download 7z files and unpack them manually; go ahead (it's out there).

Don't complain about endless free provided work, services (incl 100's of Gigabytes/Terrabytes data-traffic), and blood sweat and tears :)

But constructive feedback is very welcome. I'm also just one man; Come help me out. Interface is simply html ;)

The SIX updater interface should be made a lot simpler with better text naming.

Unfortunately Sickboy sees no priority in it and at the same time no one else is willing

to help out improving the interface coding.

The technical system and approach is excellent, yet the interface still has a long way to go.

I do see priority in it but there were a few other priorities that were higher:

• Fix bugs that prevent the system from working (Not very useful to have an uber fancy interface, while your software doesnt work on 50% of the systems, and on the other 50% it works badly)
  
• Prove the system; Make sure everything works, every technical aspect and choice is the right one.
  
• Deploy it completely. The platform goes far (faaaar) beyond what the user just sees, it's the mirror network, the server / build side, etc :)
  

The web-interface was horrible, it has already improved, and now that most of the annoying issues are resolved and important features added, I hope to take a little break and start working on the "Average Joe" interface approach.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Sickboy

[cm. 10]

I hope to take a little break and start working on the Joe farmboy interface approach.

LOL. I like to think of the installation as the entrance exam. Does a good job I think :)

[[frl]myke 14]

Nothing is forced upon you, if you don´t like it, don´t play it, simple as that. And there are places you can download ACE the "normal" way, but you´ll have to use the search function.

You're not directly forced but getting ACE2 with regular methods (download sites) has been well hidden.

Would it have hurt to write a sentence like "if you want to download ACE2 manually, head over to <enter addon hosting site(s) here> but be warned that those versions might not be the latest versions".

What do i find on the ACE2 start post? A link to dev-heaven. Also there i couldn't find a regular download.

So kinda yes, you are forced to use six-updater.

Want to download 7z files and unpack them manually; go ahead (it's out there).

Then please, take those 5 minutes it needs to add the most common sources to your ACE2 start post. Actually you try to avoid that people do exactly this and force them to use your software.

On my PC, only i decide what i want to install and what not. If software A is absolutely mandatory to run Software B, then either i think of using software B or i go with installing software A.

For running an ArmA 2 mod, i absolutely don't accept it as mandatory to install any other sort of software if the addon does not depend on it.

Sure, nice to have the option...as long it is an option.

I also accept that you prefer this way for release as the mainly desired way.

Generally speaking, not pointing to anyone: thats what i meant when i've said once this community gets more and more elitary. Addonmakers stating publicly they "do not answer PM's"....WTF? Dedicated mod-updater software, developers sites that "average Joe" get confused (also count myself in here).

No doubt, the work is excellent, the ideas outstanding. But what for if so much people get already stuck in installation?

Lads, besides all those geniality, at least when it comes to user interface, always ask yourself "could my grandma handle it?". If the answer is no, rework it. And it's probably a good idea to do this before release.

[Meatball0311 79]

The six-updater rocks!!!!

[sickboy 13]

@Myke; Check the end of the first post of the A.C.E Thread, it links to our biki pages with downloadable files (and yoma servers, since the first release even).

There's also YOMA addonsync servers out there and for instance armaholic who hosts the files even in a normal way.

Every reported issue has been resolved or workedaround within a day or even less. Issues I don't know about, I can't fix. Help yourself, and report them.

The release intention was to proove the software, technologies and choices. Not to satisfy "Average Joe". That is the next set objective.

The rest is explained in my post and the many posts, news and wiki articles written.

Doing what I can, and there's major support also for 3rd party means; can simply not be expected to do more.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Sickboy

[jw custom 56]

Greetings

I must say i love ace, but i hate this six updater it comes with, also now i see other mods useing it. It's like a plaque going from one mod to another, can we please not use this damned updater anywhere else.

It just makes things more complicated, why not give us the files we want and we install them the normal way. I love ace, dont get me wrong, i just dislike installing things on my computer.

The SiX Updater is not complicated at all it's super simple to use. But i guess if you don't wanna spent a few minutes learning to use it, it might look scary... your loss.

[evion 10]

@sickboy I think it isn't the solutioin to scotch the critics or issues which come with the tool.

I think the discussion about the six-updater is to overdue .

As you may recognize on the release the most complains come with the updater and the complicated progress to update the files.

Beside the fact, that's the easiest way for the developers to share their new progress with eachother, it isn't understandable and often said to complicated for the normal users.

So for now we have the tool and I think the unprepared release, which is focused to use by all the Communitymembers. But at the same time more and more developers use your tool, so sooner or later we all are focused to use your tool and no, there isn't a take it or leave it.

If I want to be a part of the community I must have access to the community made missions, skripts, addons and mods. And if the access goes about your updater a smooth update, download progres should be guaranteed.

So the fact that more and more developers uses your tool you should maybe thinking about to focus on the points given by kju. Good example may Yoma's update tool which has a really easy interface which is understandble for the normal users.

I don't want to offense the work, the free work of you and your members, but as I wrote at the beginning all communities (in the internet or in the real world) is living by critics.

So i hope you will attend to the critics and take you developer glasses off and watch it like the normal users do. :)

@all which think its my loss not to use that tool.

I think you make it yourself very easy. I know its a long community tradition to scotch disussions and critics, but is it the part of solution for the community?

Edited December 27, 2009 by evion

[Rhodesy77 11]

jesus guys, close minded much? ACE2 is currently in a BETA status! there for a WORK IN PROGRESS that goes for six updater as well, as already stated there have been several small updates to ACE2 since its release, and six updater reduces the work load of the ACE team A SHIT LOAD. how about you haters stop being so god damn selfish and think about these devs that do this all for free, in their own free time... they have NO obligation to please you lot, but they choose to do it best they can, their mod, their way, same with any other mod. they want to use the 6 updater then deal with it. pretty god damn simple....

[jw custom 56]

it isn't understandable and often said to complicated for the normal users.

I consider myself a normal user and i find it easy to use, not in the first 2min the very first time i used the system but after 10-15min of reading/watching the help files provided.

[sickboy 13]

Thanks for your message evion.

To be honest though, I am quite exhausted and need a break, which I intend to do now when there are no severe issues.

I'll repeat for the last time though: The interface shortcomings are no news at all to me.

It was a development choice, and I have explained it now too often, to do it again.

If you are interested in how, why, what and when, please read my posts and news announcements.

Otherwise, sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride towards Stage 3: Average Joe Friendly

It's coming! (Wanna help out? Share your sketches, ideas, feedback, etc! :))

Edited December 27, 2009 by Sickboy

[Bavator 8]

Would it have hurt to write a sentence like "if you want to download ACE2 manually, head over to <enter addon hosting site(s) here> but be warned that those versions might not be the latest versions".

Hm, lets see what the OP wrote...

i hate this six updater it comes with, also now i see other mods useing it. It's like a plaque going from one mod to another, can we please not use this damned updater anywhere else.

Seriously, with an attitude like that, I should have spoon fed him with a direct download link? Why should I waste 1 minutes for a copy/paste job when he can´t be bothered to invest 15 minutes to configure the SIX updater?

What most people seem to forget is that ACE is in beta stage and we´re supposed to help to get bug free. To do this we have to have the latest version installed, be it via SIX or Yoma updater.

And Sickboy said countless times that once ACE hits 1.0 we´ll get official direct download links.

Jesus...