Mid east

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 14 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 14 2002,00:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 14 2002,00:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">well, we could argue israelis/palestinos until we're blue in the face (and we were a couple of times, weren't we), and we would never agree.

the mid east is big, and now, since the president admonished the UN to take itself serious again by saying the UN should demand iraq follow some 27 resolutions hussein so far ignores, let's talk about the possible pax uno (or americana) in the region.

just a fantasy...:

after using afghanistan and several other -stans for decentral mobilization zones, building up forces, america will move on iraq, disabling its military and all wmd-sites permanently.

hussein will move underground and fade into irrelevancy. (capture is nary impossible.)

an iraqi general who went awol during the gulf war and lived in the US since, will form an interim government with elections soon to follow. iraq will cede territory to saudi arabia.

then iran will be taken down.

the mullahs leave for europe, (where they will be hailed as freedom fighters against fascist america), and the people elect a leader like in afghanistan.

then saudi arabia's corrupt elite will be deposed of for funding terrorists worldwide, and the country reshaped in the image of egypt.

the hashemite kingdom of jordan will be transformed into a palestinian republic.

if anybody starts another war on israel, israel will then obtain the disputed territories for good as well as ancient gilead east of the jordan river.

syria will remain an isolated dictatorship in the region, stabilizing it by forcing the new states to remain vigilant in respect to it, syria's dictator becoming their common enemy, and serving as reminder of the political system they just escaped.

like general lehman said:

power corrupts, absolute power...

is really cool!

any takers?

<span id='postcolor'>

What a bizare fantasy. Is that what you expect or want? Or both?<span id='postcolor'>

honi soit que mal y pense,

I had hoped, paratrooper, that you might pick up the train of thought and subtract from, or embellish it on your own.

present your own idea of a middle east scenario for the next few months and years. definitely more entertaining than your one line spam responses, without which this forum would not be any poorer.<span id='postcolor'>

I asked you a question. My response would be determined by that, not a jibe and not spam. I assume you would answer that it is what you expect. I expect no change in the Middle East. None. Saudi Arabia and Jordan have very stable monarchys. Which is good for the region considering the dangerous elements moving in the Arab world currently.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sam Samson @ Sep. 15 2002,07:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">about israel surrendering land that once was theirs for many long centuries:<span id='postcolor'>

Today is today, not the past. We have to use new age thinking, not get trapped in the past and say 'they are in the wrong becuase a few hundred years ago bla bla bla.

I think that neither side should be forced to be deported to any other country. Both sides should be allowed to remain in the region they are in, and live with peace. Both sides are preventing this from happening.

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

If you could see what was truly going on you would realize the only way for peace is to remove the Palestinens to a country where they belong and do not cuase terriosm. I am not saying all Plaestine people support terror, but enough do where it is a problem. So if you want peace, you might have to relocate people to another country.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 15 2002,05:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you could see what was truly going on you would realize the only way for peace is to remove the Palestinens to a country where they belong and do not cuase terriosm. I am not saying all Plaestine people support terror, but enough do where it is a problem. So if you want peace, you might have to relocate people to another country.<span id='postcolor'>

Dude, DOR, the Palestinians were there before Israel. There is a reason why it was known as Palestine before it became Israel.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Tex is right. All throughout this thread, there have been statistics that have shown that right up until about the mid 20th century, the area known as Israel and Palestinia was populated mainly by arabs. Regardless of historical population figures, the Palestinians have been there longer in recent times, so I do not think it should be them to leave. I do not think the Isralis should have to leave either. I think they both need to take a look over what they are squabling about, and relise that they could both live side by side in peace if they only worked towards it.

[Major Fubar 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 14 2002,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">217 pages, and the arguments still haven't progessed?<span id='postcolor'>

Please don't spam this thread, as you can see there is enough waffle in it already!  <span id='postcolor'>

Why is my opinion spam?

My view that this thread has long outlived it's relevance and is getting nowhere is perfectly valid.

Hmm, maybe I should've just added another "Israel is right" or "Palestine is right" comment...

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Israel is right" <span id='postcolor'>

A smart man.

[ralphwiggum 6]

arguments are hard to progress after some point.

but this thread also serves as the point where all news related to mid eastern region gets discussed about. and since mid-eastern region always has some news coming up, if we close this thread, we can expect numerous threads talking about the issue in off-topic forum. so this thread prevents such from happening.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 15 2002,06:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"Israel is right" <span id='postcolor'>

A smart man. <span id='postcolor'>

DOR, stop fucking around. You continue to ignore the basic facts, relying instead on your patented broken record defense. I am getting irritated (once again) by your idiocy.

[NavyEEL 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tex [uSMC] Posted on Sep. 15 2002,06:21

I am getting irritated<span id='postcolor'>

me too

[PFC_Mike 2]

Howabout a slightly different topic:

Why does the US support the corrupt, autocratic, and repressive House of Saud? If that is stability, I think I'd prefer anarchy.

I think that it's pretty clear that the US wil go to war regardless of what the "street" says. Nukes or not, Saddam isn't exactly the sort of fellow you'd want around. Besides, as a side benefit of an Iraqi "regime change", the world's second largest petroleum reserves would be pratically in the hands of the US, diminshing the influence of OPEC. Admittedly, it might take 3 to 5 years to get Iraq up to capacity (see this week's Economist)

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 15 2002,06:13)

Quote

"Israel is right"

A smart man.

DOR, stop fucking around. You continue to ignore the basic facts, relying instead on your patented broken record defense. I am getting irritated (once again) by your idiocy.<span id='postcolor'>

Sorry it makes you mad, but I say what I think is right. I defendn Israel and you defedn Plaestine, you should not get mad about this. The only thing you should get mad about is the killing of inocent civilians, and if something major does not happen more innocent civilians will die.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

DOR, I do not defend Palestinians. I dont defend Israelis. Im merely pissed off that you refuse to argue points brought up by other members- instead you just repeat the same shit over and over again. You just proved that you dont pay a whole hell of a lot of attention to my posts, by saying that I defend Palestinians. I only brought up the fact that the Pals have as much right to be there as Israel.

[Aculaud 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,21:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 14 2002,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">217 pages, and the arguments still haven't progessed?<span id='postcolor'>

Please don't spam this thread, as you can see there is enough waffle in it already!  <span id='postcolor'>

Why is my opinion spam?

My view that this thread has long outlived it's relevance and is getting nowhere is perfectly valid.<span id='postcolor'>

With this, i agree. Want the synopsis on the Mid-east? Tribes war with eachother, countrys get invaded, terrorists bomb things, people die, others ignore them, the US does its back-handed policing, repeat.

[Bernadotte 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Aculaud @ Sep. 15 2002,08:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,21:o4)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Paratrooper @ Sep. 14 2002,14:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Major Fubar @ Sep. 14 2002,14:11)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">217 pages, and the arguments still haven't progessed?<span id='postcolor'>

Please don't spam this thread, as you can see there is enough waffle in it already!  <span id='postcolor'>

Why is my opinion spam?

My view that this thread has long outlived it's relevance and is getting nowhere is perfectly valid.<span id='postcolor'>

With this, i agree.<span id='postcolor'>

Firstly, without this thread there would likely be at least 2 or 3 other threads posted per week on Mid East matters.  Sticking this thread actually saves page 1 space.

Secondly, opinions expressed about the Mid East thread are not about the Mid East.  Most of us don't come here to find out what others think about this thread.  Unless you are moderating this discussion, try posting a new topic about this thread if you feel so compelled to argue its relevance.  Otherwise, if you don't like how the board is run, take it up with admin and not us.

Thirdly, this thread is not just useful for discussing the latest news.  For example, Bogo found and posted the following old quote by Israel's first Prime Minister on page 216:

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why should the Arabs make peace? If I were an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we came here and stole their country. Why should they accept that?

David Ben-Gurion quoted in "The Jewish Paradox"

by Nahum Goldmann, former president of the World Jewish Congress<span id='postcolor'>This quote is very relevant and, as you probably already know, it did not appear earlier in this thread.  It would not have been posted at all had this thread been closed at page 215.

But we digress...  

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not defend Palestinians.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I only brought up the fact that the Pals have as much right to be there as Israel.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm this seems like defending to me.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Fact:something that is known to be true or to have happened

If I said that it is a fact that Germany conquared Poland in 1939, I am NOT defending Gemranies actions or saying I agree with them I am only saying it did happen.

Tex is only stating hard facts, that, outside of the bible:Palestinians have every right to live ont that land as do Jews, Christains, Aethists and any other belief system around.

he is not supporting the actions of the Palestinian state.

[Guest]

play nice now girls

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Cute

Cant see where the girl part came from, maybe Im blind......

And again, in my last post I was only stating factsd myself.

I am not angry at anyone, I just want the truth to emerge. I wanted DOR to relise that Tex is not out there cheering every time a Palestinian suicide bomber kills innocent civilians.

To say, 'I support Palestinian suicide bombers' would be to say something of questionable politics, but so would to say, 'I support Israli gunships conducting missile attacks in Palestinian suburbs'

Who is the right side?

There is no right side in this conflict.

There will be no right side until one side stops doing its own dirty thing.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 15 2002,16:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">play nice now girls

<span id='postcolor'>

what does it signify , they play nice or you harakiri ?

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 15 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 15 2002,16:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">play nice now girls

<span id='postcolor'>

what does it signify , they play nice or you harakiri ? <span id='postcolor'>

It was supposed to be a threat, and I was refering to DoR and Tex

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 15 2002,17:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (ran @ Sep. 15 2002,17:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Sep. 15 2002,16:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">play nice now girls

<span id='postcolor'>

what does it signify , they play nice or you harakiri ? <span id='postcolor'>

It was supposed to be a threat, and I was refering to DoR and Tex <span id='postcolor'>

hehehehe , now let's get back on-topic

[Duke_of_Ray 0]

I just can not see any peace coming to the middle east unless something drastic happens. Why would it be wrong to move people from a palce they do not belong, especially if it would save lives? I want peace, probably more than any of you. Why would it hurt to move the palestinens to a country where they would be at home? It would save lives.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was supposed to be a threat, and I was refering to DoR and Tex <span id='postcolor'>

Violence is bad.

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 15 2002,18:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I just can not see any peace coming to the middle east unless something drastic happens.  Why would it be wrong to move people from a palce they do not belong, especially if it would save lives? I want peace, probably more than any of you. Why would it hurt to move the palestinens to a country where they would be at home? It would save lives.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It was supposed to be a threat, and I was refering to DoR and Tex <span id='postcolor'>

Violence is bad. <span id='postcolor'>

the drastic thing would be : ISRAEL REMOVES THE FUCKING SETTLEMENTS FROM THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORY

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Duke_of_Ray @ Sep. 15 2002,16:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I do not defend Palestinians.<span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I only brought up the fact that the Pals have as much right to be there as Israel.<span id='postcolor'>

Hmmm this seems like defending to me.<span id='postcolor'>

then I see no point in continuing this conversation.