civillian children

[Archamedes 10]

The one thing that doesn't seem to make arma 2 complete is children. I can understand that it can be a gray area to add children into games like this but I think it cold be a good idea if used properly. I dont want to nuke them or watch them get blown apart (literally with slx) from an airstrike but adding them for ambient civillian life or even hostage situations could be good. Also it could be good for realism if there are missions where you have to laser designate a building but beware there is a school nearby etc... you get the idea

[Master gamawa 0]

Nah.. it was more or less the same reason programmers didn't add children to Oblivion.

you see friend... sandbox games and especially the milsim category is subject to abuse.

I know you will not blow kids apart but someone, somewhere will do. Someone will add children and set them on fire. Then he will post that video on youtube for the oh so hated "LULZ"! And people will say "Arma 2? Isn't that the game where you set kids on fire and rape them using alsatians and goats?"

It's just a sensitive area man. You just dont put kids in a game where helicopters unleash fiery hell.

GTA had no kids too. It's bad publicity!

[Psychopathus 10]

"Arma 2? Isn't that the game where you set kids on fire and rape them using alsatians and goats?". It made me laugh.

Yeah, I agree with Master gamawa. It's a very sensitive area and it'd probably cause more harm than good to videogames in general.

You throw a few kids, someone kills them and post a video on youtube as Master gamawa said. A few weeks later, the Arma series is banned in most coutries and the whole world goes into that discussion "Are videogames bad for people?" again.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Psychopathus

[mr burns 132]

No. kthxbai

[cole 0]

If a guy from ESRB would see this thread, he would probably get a heart attack.

And yes, even though it would be more realistic to have children, nobody could stop people from creating children-killing missions and videos. The game is so open to editing and changing things that limiting stuff you could do with kids in a similiar way as it was in Fallout 3* is impossible.

* And yes, even in Fallout 3 there's a mod that adds killable children.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Cole

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Most of us agree it would not be wise to put children into ArmA 2. (I think) But what about putting midgets? Or little 3 feet tall aliens? Then you could have your "Make sure you don't kill the short ones" missions with it still being acceptable to most people.

On second thought people would then raise midget army's that rise up from the underworld or have the aliens probe the Chedaki's. :D

*On A Serious Note*

If there was a way to stop it from being abused I would LOVE to see children in ArmA 2. You could have missions similar to Iraq and Afghanistan where you patrol the cities and (rarely) engage a large hostile force, trying to keep the civilians friendly to you at the same time. You could have the option to give candy, toys, or books to children and that would increase both your groups morale and the friendliness of the local population.

The other side of the same coin though:

Children luring soldiers in for snipers, or IEDs. Insurgents giving kids soccer balls filled with C4, etc.

It's a very touchy topic...

Edited November 4, 2009 by Darkhorse 1-6

[icebreakr 3159]

Err, I'm sure most of you've been the latest Stallone's Rambo but got forbid something like that in a game :) don't forget that many wars are fought right now by these "children" aka "toy soldiers" we're discussing here, just browse through Africa reports...

[Herbal Influence 10]

Simply: No.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Err, I'm sure most of you've been the latest Stallone's Rambo but got forbid something like that in a game :) don't forget that many wars are fought right now by these "children" aka "toy soldiers" we're discussing here, just browse through Africa reports...

I agree with you about the "Toy Soldiers" thing. The problem is we couldn't stop people from merging this with any "Adult Content" type stuff, or from blowing childrens brains out, or as was stated above, "setting kids on fire and raping them using Alsatians and goats"

Don't Forget: Napalm Sticks To Kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abY29Q97-es

Edited November 4, 2009 by Darkhorse 1-6

[Dmahon 10]

If I was going to give my opinion I would just be reiterating what others have said, so I might as well just leave it here.

Off topic, but where did you hear SLX has dismemberment? Is this available for arma 2 now? And if it is, are those effected dismembered by the blast radius of a HE round or from a direct hit from a tank shell like the in the fist SLX mod? I would prefer the former.

[Archamedes 10]

where did you hear SLX has dismemberment?

From the makers of slx for arma 2 found on armaholic. Tested it myself and its pretty gruesome and detailed.

Back on topic. This is why i saw it as a gray area like most. I agree there is always some idiot who ruins it for everyone by posting a child massacre video playing to the Typical crap rock music over the top of it, like all other usermade game footage you see online. But i guess bohemia cant really take the blame for it as they didnt incorporate them into their game, not that it cuts any beef with the beardy, sandle wearing doo gooders with their recycled bikes that don't have jobs but sit around itching to whinge about something, to make their simple life more interesting.

"games don't kill people, lunatics that blame games kill people."

[odjob 0]

The idea of children being hurt/used/killed is not tolerated by any (modern) goverment or their citizens. Not in real life and not in outspoken fantasies and not simulated in a game. This is just a fact and having "children" in a game where they can be "killed" is just asking for trouble.

The fact that children do get killed in wars is not relevant (its just sad).

I do understand what OP is saying, it can make for some interresting senarios but far from everybody is as mature about it. Eventually someone will do that youtube clip with children being strafed by a A10. It only takes one person to do it and one person to see it and Arma/BI will have the whole world coming down on them.

[dxfan01 10]

VBS2 has children...but maybe they should be invincible so they cannot die or get hurt..and there there for realism and population

[nodunit 397]

Granted but VBS2 is military simulation for the military, not the civilian populous (yes you can get your hands on it but most won't due to the price tag.)

Also I recommend not mentioning VBS2 too much, discussion of it isn't tolerated much.

While it would be a community contribution BIS could easily still take flak for it since most people don't do much research, all they have to see is a child on fire, being shot, run over by a tank amongst other things and tempers will flare with fingers pointed directly at the developer.

They don't know the community made it and it is very likely they won't even care, infact they would likely accuse the company of allowing this or come up with ANY reason to blame the company, they will find any possible reason they can to accuse the developers.

In the end even if an addon of it is released most of the addon following websites will not support it and for good reason. As has been said several times here and in the various previous "Children in Arma1/Arma2" threads, people are twisted and it only takes one.

Edited November 5, 2009 by NodUnit

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

maybe they should be invincible so they cannot die or get hurt

I like that idea. It works for everybody.

[killakaze 10]

I personally would like to walk through a town with my platoon and have all the locals react depending on who they are women would gather their children and running indoors or thank us for saving them against the local warlords old people maybee looking out windows or children running down the side of the road curious about our vehicals or whatever starving people begging for food or something anyway.

i could understand bis looking at it from a legal standpoint but you guys are the reason they have too, sick people will be sick wether they have a game or not the goal of developers of simulations should be to make a game as realistic as possible for that type of game including the environments inwhich it is played out in. whoever thinks that soldiers in the army can handle having children in a war sim better than the public for whatever reason is a moron people are people im guessing the army would have more violent sickos than in the public, movies and books depect some of the craziest senarios you will ever see. As all living things are pricless in my mind why not just get this game banned all together or take out all living things so as to not offend anyone or to allow sick minded people to get their jollies off then you can shoot rocks and trees, not all sickos target kids some target women some men some animals some target trees and some love to shoot the bodies of dead people. In my opinion u cannot restrict the whole of society becuase there are crazy people that is not right and its not justice. anyway freedom is a good thing and i dont need my actions restricted by the fears of weak minded people thank you heh.

[jwalstab 10]

Man I can't wait until I can shoot up some children while masterbating furiously, please someone make this mod I am desperate.

[dxfan01 10]

Man I can't wait until I can shoot up some children while masterbating furiously, please someone make this mod I am desperate.

wow -.-

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Man I can't wait until I can shoot up some children while masterbating furiously, please someone make this mod I am desperate.

wow -.-

wow-.- x2

[nodunit 397]

Man I can't wait until I can shoot up some children while masterbating furiously, please someone make this mod I am desperate.

That sarcasm not funny, don't be an ass.

[m5holmez 10]

Man I can't wait until I can shoot up some children while masterbating furiously, please someone make this mod I am desperate.

Thats going a bit far even for sarcasm, it doesnt bother me as i found it quite funny although im sure others wont see it that way.

On topic i think it would be a cool addon as there have been other mods like this for other games as mentioned previously Fallout 3, and not to mention all the war movies out there with kids getting blown to pieces and shot up etc, so whats the difference if its in a video game or movie?

I mean what its ok to kill young women in arma 2 with just about every weapon possible but when it comes to children its considered as evil, a little bit contradictory dont you think?

[jwalstab 10]

Yea m5holmez at the moment I kill the women, its not as good as I'd like but it is tiding me over until someone finally puts some damn children in the game for me to blow up.

Just have to say some of you need to harden the fuck up, I mean there are kids around the world who would shoot you in REAL LIFE in a second. Stop being politically correct idiots so we can work to make more realistic games. "oh no we might see kids get killed in a video game which is about war'. Seriously you want to play war you should be able to see what happens in real war. Unfortunetly children do get their heads blown off, and women do get raped and tortured, and men do get blown up.

Deal with it, so next time we can have a realistic game. If more people saw movies and games that showed real war, involving the horrible shit that happens to women and children, it may make people think twice before going to war.

Censoring war so its almost like a nice clean fair fight between Men, where your either dead or alive (not showing people missing limbs and arms etc. which is alot of war injuries) does more harm than good from a 'society values' point of view.

Edited November 5, 2009 by jwalstab

[nodunit 397]

Unfortunately it's not quite that simple when it comes to games, ESRB ratings are strict and if they, hell anyone who is not familiar with the game sees anything remotely close to children, probably even children in the game to begin with they will go on a tirade and instantly point at BIS.

I don't understand why, games don't invoke violence and people should stop hiding behind that, instead they should learn to read ESRB ratings before buying games for their children but that is getting off topic..

For example, does anyone remember the RE5 racist outcry? Sure it is a somewhat different situation but you see that most people didn't do any research on the game they would have known RE was about zombies and mostly had white zombies and 4 had nothing but spanish zombies (but nobody complained about that).

Point is if people see something they point fingers, don't bother to look it up or a reason for it they simply point and that is exactly what they will do to Bohemia if they see it, in the gaming industry there is a much much bigger picture to look at.

Edited November 5, 2009 by NodUnit

[Alex72 1]

Then again this is ARMA and it is moddable. Anyone that can import or handle 3D studio etc can make children. Nothing stops him/her from doing it. Asking the community if it want kids however is one of those questions that you already know the answer to. Some want them for realism purpose and some dont want to touch it with a tong.

Personally im against it if BIS would make them and add them as it will get really bad publicity when said youtube videos and screens will surface of weird shit. But im for it in a closed mission with people i know to have them for realism purpose in the backdrop or as part of a mission.

Wouldnt set them on fire on purpose though, but rather trying to save them and their hot moms.

[Herbal Influence 10]

(...) Wouldnt set them on fire on purpose though, but rather trying to save them and their hot moms. (...)

Wouldn't ya kill them if a sniper covers behind them?

Or a tank attacks you - children around it?

Ok to collateral children killing?

It would kill my fun of gaming.

(I don't "need" raped woman or other civilists also.)

On the other hand I see the danger of hollywoodizing war if you spare out everything "toooo cruel".

Like the shitty "Top Gun" with scientologybraindamaged Tom Cruise which was - like close to any other hollywood-war-movie - sponsored by the US government.

For good reason.

They need cheap cannon fudder.

And crazy Tom is - for many - a nice looking chap to advertise clean and sexy war, old-fashioned, primitive manhood.

I am against kids in BI games. It's a game. It's not a serious simulation like VBS. It's for entertaining not for professional education.

I liked the nice lines on the false prophets of war in OFP1 ... they were entertaining AND caused people to think about war and the outcomes.

War is not Top Gun.

BI games are not war.

It's entertainment.

It's cops and robbers ... instead of war.

And ... <<Remember: Original Men do fade.>>

Just my 2-cent ....

Edited November 5, 2009 by Herbal Influence