DAC V2.1 (WIP) discussion

[manzilla 1]

Wow, not sure how I missed this thread before but this is exciting news. Thanks Silola, DAC was by far my favorite thing released for A1. Missions were always replayable. Thanks for your time and effort.

[Uglyboy 10]

@All:

What about mixed groups, for example 1 shilka and some soldiers together on patrol ?

Greeting

Silola

Sounds great, maybe add the possibility of some randomness even here, so not even the mission maker knows if there is just a foot patrol there or 2 MG UAZ waiting to shot him down :bounce3:

[madrussian 347]

Demo mission for the new functions sent your way via email Silola, for evaluation!

Maybe one day we can play your mission together, fight against the dac together, die together, have fun together :D

I can think of no greater honor than to fight and die (virtually anyway) with the creater of the single greatest addon ever to grace OFP/ArmA.

What about mixed groups, for example 1 shilka and some soldiers together on patrol ?

I like the sound of that! Is there a way to do this and keep the init line uncomplicated?

Quick unrelated question regarding DAC I've been wondering about for a while now:

If I recall correctly, DAC used to have a requirement that no two DAC zones could be located at the same position. Was that still a requirement as of 2.0? The thing is, it would be nice to stack DAC zones. Much easier than having to put them slightly side-by-side and keep track of all that. Anyhow, just curious.

I wonder if it's possible to implement an attachment functionality where you can get two or more groups within one DAC call to "glue" together and follow the same patrol at the speed of the slowest element?

Also, further to my request for a negative zone, is there a possibility to prevent DAC spawning within a distance of an identified object/unit? So that for example I can have the player start within, or very near to, a DAC zone without DAC immediately seeing the player?

Both of these are very high on my list also!

[TRexian 0]

With regard to mixed groups (and not sure if this is what you're talking about) - I am kinda working on (along with half a dozen other things) a function to get the config entries for the different editor groups. So, if you want a CDF mechanized infantry group, it will be generated as if you'd placed it with the editor.

Again - sorry if this isn't responsive to what you had in mind. :)

This is truly one of the best additions to A2 gameplay!

[silola 1086]

Hi,

Also, further to my request for a negative zone, is there a possibility to prevent DAC spawning within a distance of an identified object/unit? So that for example I can have the player start within, or very near to, a DAC zone without DAC immediately seeing the player?

For this prob I've build a simple solution (simple because I want to release the DAC this year ... hehe )

You can place one or more logic units within a zone and define a distance,

so no waypoints will be generated at this places.

This means also that no units are generated in these areas (At the start of the mission).

But please consider that these areas are crossed by units....after a while.

About the mixed groups ...

I've done some tests and I am initially pleased with the first result.

The vehicle(s) within a group, adjust their speed to the speed of the soldiers

and it's looks okay.

Maybe this is evident from the following pictures ...

I took the test with only one vehicle. How it behaves with multiple vehicles, I must study more.

Next, I have to integrate the reduction of these units, so that only the vehicles are calculated on the distance.

If I recall correctly, DAC used to have a requirement that no two DAC zones could be located at the same position. Was that still a requirement as of 2.0? The thing is, it would be nice to stack DAC zones. Much easier than having to put them slightly side-by-side and keep track of all that. Anyhow, just curious.

I must try this behavior first, but I think I can solve this problem (hope so).

I like the sound of that! Is there a way to do this and keep the init line uncomplicated?

Instead of this entry for tanks: [5,1,30,6], you make the following entry: [5 [1,3,5],30,6] ... I hope this is easy enough.

Demo mission for the new functions sent your way via email Silola, for evaluation!

Ok Mad, I will test your work tomorrow :-)

Bye

Silola

[Uglyboy 10]

The first picture is kind of funny since in reality the units would be toasted by the m1 exhaust :D Great work :)

One question, have you ever figured out why ACE1 and DAC couldn't work together on dedicated server? ( server crash in matter of minutes ) :confused:

[andersson 285]

I never had a problem with ACE and DAC2 on my dedicated.

[madrussian 347]

Ok Mad, I will test your work tomorrow :-)

Take all the time you need on that. There's no rush what-so-ever, especially because maybe it delays the release of 2.1, and I am chomping at the bit! :D

Kidding there of course, we all know based on past experience that you take your time and release a quality, tested product.

btw- Appears you are really making some leaps and bounds. It's always exciting to see what pops up next around here! :)

I hope you can port/make this mission in arma 2 it sounds like an epic coop play :bounce3:

Hey Uglyboy, thanks for saying so buddy. It gives me the motivation to keep going with it!

[dmarkwick 261]

For this prob I've build a simple solution (simple because I want to release the DAC this year ... hehe )

You can place one or more logic units within a zone and define a distance,

so no waypoints will be generated at this places.

This means also that no units are generated in these areas (At the start of the mission).

That sounds great Silola, so for a random player position it will be possible to move the logic unit to the player and still get the correct waypoint generation?

But please consider that these areas are crossed by units....after a while.

Yep :)

[silola 1086]

Hi :)

@DMarkwick

That sounds great Silola, so for a random player position it will be possible to move the logic unit to the player and still get the correct waypoint generation?

Yep, it's only important that you re-placing these logic(s) before the DAC is initialized.

The same applies if you place a zone on a new position (and maybe all player units), first, place the logic(s) to the new position, then move the zone.

@MadRussian

I've test your demo-mission and it's all (functionality) clear so far (really good scripted functions) :)

But there are 2 things that I must, for exactly, ask u again ...

In your zone there are only 5 waypoints. If now 3 waypoints are replaced,

it is highly likely that the 3 groups are affected by this change.

That's okay and understandable.

But what about a bigger zone, where u create 10 groups and 50 waypoints,

so there are more random routes and the groups not get the same waypoints...

How do know which waypoints are in use and which waypoints you need to replace, so it makes sense?

If you do not want to selectively replace the waypoints, then it's okay.

The waypoints were then randomly replaced.

But then it can also happen that the user-defined waypoints will not be used.

But anyway, your marker solution is really good and much usefull ;)

The second thing ...the movable custom waypoints.

It is true, DAC can not move these waypoints. Once a zone is moved, they are useless.

But what role have these custom waypoints?

In my opinion, to place waypoints at prominent locations within a zone.

For example, in the vicinity of certain buildings, or on relevant positions for a mission, etc.

Now, if u move a zone, and the positions of the custom waypoints would also (moving relative to the position of the zone),

then these positions would be absolutely useless, because there are now new interesting positions within the zone, but on other positions.

If you know exactly, on what position should be placed a zone,

you could insert pre-defined custom waypoints, which then will make sense again.

Ok, these are the points which seem not really clear to me.

Maybe u can help me at this stage :)

Greeting

Silola

[madrussian 347]

Greetings Silola. :)

...your marker solution is really good and much usefull ;)

Glad you like it! Sure makes reading in markers a breeze.

Let's address your second question first:

The second thing ...the movable custom waypoints.

It is true, DAC can not move these waypoints. Once a zone is moved, they are useless.

But what role have these custom waypoints?

...

Now, if u move a zone, and the positions of the custom waypoints would also (moving relative to the position of the zone),

then these positions would be absolutely useless, because there are now new interesting positions within the zone, but on other positions.

Good points. However, note that when ReplaceDACPoints replaces some (or all) of the points within a zone, it is NOT doing so relative to the position of the zone. Instead, it's simply taking the contents of the user-defined point cloud and replacing the points inside the zone.

So the user really is indeed placing markers on interesting locations for his custom points, and those custom points aren't doing any moving at all. In my overlapping-moving-zone scenario (first described earlier), the process went something like this:

1. I placed a pattern of fixed locations across the map.

2. I placed POIs (points of interest) via markers all over the map in places I'd like the DAC to send units.

3. I set up five interchangeable DAC zones of equal size, placed somewhere arbitrarily anywhere on the map. (I seem to recall them off in the ocean somewhere.) [Note the DAC does not get fired up until step 9.]

4. Using ReadMarkers, the Mission reads in all POIs into one master POI array, and deletes all the POI markers.

5. Mission then parses through the master POI array, and creates new sub-POI-arrays based on which fixed location each point is closest to.

6. Using setVariable, Mission assigns each fixed location ownership of it's sub-POI-array. (done as part of the previous step) [Note setVariable and getVariable work on locations too, not just objects.]

7. Mission places the flipped-over prison bus and player somewhere randomly within the road network of the island. (I had another script that would detect all the road segments.)

8. Mission determines the five closest fixed locations to the player and moves the five DAC triggers to directly on top of these five locations.

9. Mission fires up the DAC, with all five zones active.

10. Player begins his attempted escape toward freedom.

11. As the player moves around the map, Mission periodically monitors which five fixed locations are closest to the player. When a change in the five closest fixed locations is detected, the Mission performs the following:

(a.) Deactivates the furthest zone from the player

(b.) Moves that zone atop the newest fixed location among the five

(c.) Accesses the stored POI cloud for the given fixed location via getVariable

(d.) Uses ReplaceDACPoints to replace a specified proportion of the original DAC-chosen points, with those from the fixed location-specific POI cloud.

(e.) Finally, reactivates the newly-placed zone.

To summarize, this method of custom points still uses interesting fixed points on the map chosen by the mission creator. These points are read in via ReadMarkers and then used to replace some or all of a given DAC zone's original points via ReplaceDACPoints. Replacing points in this manner is currently the only method available to mission designers, for zones which have moved.

Although I designed GetDACPoints and ReplaceDACPoints with fixed locations and point cloud ownership in mind, imo mission designers will undoubtedly find many unanticipated uses for these functions.

Having said all that, I do keenly recall you wanting to make most of the DAC functionality editor based. Maybe you can find some way to implement something along this location / point cloud system and have it all accessible inside the editor?

In your zone there are only 5 waypoints. If now 3 waypoints are replaced,

it is highly likely that the 3 groups are affected by this change.

That's okay and understandable.

But what about a bigger zone, where u create 10 groups and 50 waypoints,

so there are more random routes and the groups not get the same waypoints...

How do know which waypoints are in use and which waypoints you need to replace, so it makes sense?

If you do not want to selectively replace the waypoints, then it's okay.

The waypoints were then randomly replaced.

But then it can also happen that the user-defined waypoints will not be used.

For the purposes of my mission, it wasn't important to replace a particular group's points, but rather some extent of points in the overall zone. I was most interested in achieving a town/country-side ratio for points.

As in, to get DAC points inside of towns/cities, we all know you generally have always had to use custom points. To get to a 70% country-side / 30% town ratio, once I'd placed my POIs in the towns, it would simply be a matter of choosing an appropriate number of total zone points. Sure, some groups would end up with more custom points (town) and others would end up with more country-side points (DAC-chosen), but maybe that just spices things up a bit? :D

Now, by all means, if you feel that being able to replace an individual group's points is a worth-while endeavor, maybe you can make a function for that? I'm sure I'd make use of it!

Anyhow, I hope I've shed some light on how these functions might be useful to mission makers. If you have anymore questions, please don't hesitate. (Very little about the DAC is uncomplicated, after all.) Good luck on the continuing effort for 2.1. Can't wait to see it! ;)

[Muahaha 10]

Hi, I'm totally new to DAC and never tried it before. but definately will try it out once it's released. Just wondering whether it can spawn units from addons that are user made. eg. BWmod etc. Thanks

[madrussian 347]

You're going to love the DAC. And yes, you can spawn units from any mods.

[dmarkwick 261]

Hi, I'm totally new to DAC and never tried it before. but definately will try it out once it's released. Just wondering whether it can spawn units from addons that are user made. eg. BWmod etc. Thanks

I made a very easy to understand tutorial for DAC, which broke down the process into very easy to understand small steps. Unfortunately the website hosting it is down, but as soon as it's up I'll post it here. Unfortunately I don't have a local version.

[lockjaw-65- 0]

I loved dacs in arma and cannot wait for this to be released :-)

[Muahaha 10]

I made a very easy to understand tutorial for DAC, which broke down the process into very easy to understand small steps. Unfortunately the website hosting it is down, but as soon as it's up I'll post it here. Unfortunately I don't have a local version.

Hey thanks and looking forward to it.

[andersson 285]

@Silola. I dont remember how it was in DAC2.0, but I would like to have the DAC-AI respawn delay from bases in ingame time, not in real time. So if I have respawn delay to 1 h and skiptime 2 h the AI should be respawned.

If its already that way, ignore this.

[Batstat 10]

Joy :)

[becubed 24]

Silola, nice to hear that DAC is coming to Arma2. I planned to use it for a few missions but found the files troublesome to use. Nothing wrong with the files, I'm just lazy and can't remember class names :).

To this end I started to create a front end to make them easier to use.

Unfortuantly real life intervened and I haven't finished it yet.

If the new files are similar to the old ones it probably wouldn't take much to implement it for V2.1

Here are links for some screens.

Screen 1

Screen 2

Screen 3

Screen 4

Screen 5

Screen 6

If you would like to have a similar thing done for V2 PM me and I'll give it a go.

Scott

[Uglyboy 10]

Silola, nice to hear that DAC is coming to Arma2. I planned to use it for a few missions but found the files troublesome to use. Nothing wrong with the files, I'm just lazy and can't remember class names :).

To this end I started to create a front end to make them easier to use.

Unfortuantly real life intervened and I haven't finished it yet.

If the new files are similar to the old ones it probably wouldn't take much to implement it for V2.1

Here are links for some screens.

Screen 1

Screen 2

Screen 3

Screen 4

Screen 5

Screen 6

If you would like to have a similar thing done for V2 PM me and I'll give it a go.

Scott

Wow looks user friendly :) good job ;)

[vengeance1 50]

Silola, nice to hear that DAC is coming to Arma2. I planned to use it for a few missions but found the files troublesome to use. Nothing wrong with the files, I'm just lazy and can't remember class names :).

To this end I started to create a front end to make them easier to use.

Unfortuantly real life intervened and I haven't finished it yet.

If the new files are similar to the old ones it probably wouldn't take much to implement it for V2.1

Here are links for some screens.

Screen 1

Screen 2

Screen 3

Screen 4

Screen 5

Screen 6

If you would like to have a similar thing done for V2 PM me and I'll give it a go.

Scott

This would have been very helpful in ARMA 1. Nice Job hope ARMA 2 DAC has something simular.

[silola 1086]

Hi and sorry,

but I have spent several days in my bed because I had contracted a severe respiratory infection.

Therefore I could not respond the last days :(

But now ... it's me little better every day, and I get back my concentration.

Ok..

@MadRussian:

---------------

After you've told me the whole "marker" story ... you've convinced me :-)

My Suggestion: You make your marker functions ready for DAC V2.1

and describe the use of the functions, so that I can include that part in the readme.

So...You and your functions will get a permanent place in the DAC and the DAC readme :D

In addition, I will expand the existing method:

DAC zones then can include custom waypoints, after they were moved.

Condition is then that the waypoints are in the catchment area of the zone.

Any number of custom waypoints can be predefined somewhere on the Map.

Once they are detected by a zone, they are also involved.

@Muahaha:

------------

yes, like MadRussian said, DAC can generate arbitrary units.

You can even build your own combinations of units from different mods.

And each zone can load their own combination.

This is really very simple and very varied.

However, DAC can not just spawn units, but also respawn units.

This means that repeatedly new units penetrate into the mission area,

and it leads to very long firefights ... if u want.

@DMarkwick:

-------------

You have really written a DAC tutorial? LOL ... this I have never seen m8, sorry.

Okay, I'm waiting for your link ;-)

@andersson:

-------------

Do you mean "spawn" or "respawn" of units?

I think you mean the respawn, since you can directly affect the time of "spawn" in the condition field of the trigger (zone).

@becubed:

------------

Hey scott, your pictures tell me: "I must have this nice tool" ... hehe.

I think something like this could be a big help for people

who are as lazy as you or crazy as me :D

Also interesting, because with the release of DAC V1.0 (OFP) an additional tool called "DAC zonewriter" was released.

I think the basic idea was the same (idea from MCPXXL, because he is lazy as you *indietischkantebeiss*)

Do you know this tool? Here are a few old pictures:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7678/zw2.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3052/zw1.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/922/zw3.jpg

And yes ... if u ask me ... I would like to have a similar thing done for V2.1 :bounce3:

Greeting

Silola

Edited November 4, 2009 by Silola

[becubed 24]

@becubed:

------------

Hey scott, your pictures tell me: "I must have this nice tool" ... hehe.

I think something like this could be a big help for people

who are as lazy as you or crazy as me :D

Also interesting, because with the release of DAC V1.0 (OFP) an additional tool called "DAC zonewriter" was released.

I think the basic idea was the same (idea from MCPXXL, because he is lazy as you *indietischkantebeiss*)

Do you know this tool? Here are a few old pictures:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7678/zw2.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3052/zw1.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/922/zw3.jpg

And yes ... if u ask me ... I would like to have a similar thing done for V2.1 :bounce3:

Greeting

Silola

Silola, no I had never seen Zonewriter, obviously there are more lazy people in the world than I thought.

I've PM'd you with my email so if you would like to send me the config files for DAC V2.1 I'll make a start on a front end for you. :)

[andersson 285]

@andersson:

-------------

Do you mean "spawn" or "respawn" of units?

I think you mean the respawn, since you can directly affect the time of "spawn" in the condition field of the trigger (zone).

Yes, I did mean 'respawn' (which I wrote ;) ).

To clarify? If I kill one DAC-spawned M1A1 and that will be respawned from a DAC-base I can define the time before respawn to whatever I like. So if I have the respawn delay to 2 hours, what happens if I skiptime 3 hours? Will the tank be there?

What Im asking is if that delay is in RL time or in ingame-time. I cant remember how it was in DAC and just want to make sure its ingame time. So if I skiptime to next day all units are respawned from the bases.

Edited November 4, 2009 by andersson
Im so looking forward to DAC2.1!!

[i0n0s 0]

I have a request for DAC 2.1:

Please allow to create the user to create new zones even after the DACs init.

That would allow to create new zones dynamically during gameplay and actions of the player.