FlexiAI (WIP) discussion

[Banderas 0]

Just watched the latest video, it's amazing. I observed two things wich about I can't decide if I made the right conclusion, or I just want to beleive :D ,they are:

-when USMC squads had contact, they changed formation from wedge to line: is it because leader quickly observed the situationand found this the best to engage enemies in the village? Will it use another formation depending on the circumnstances?

-Seemingly two of the four squads layed supressive fire on the enemy, while one tried flanking from (south)east, another from the (north)west...Am I seeing right that squads cooperate with each other, or is my fantasy way too alive?

[mrcash2009 0]

1) you add the FlexiAI module and sync it to a group leader

To be honest I think this will solve it anyway, all missions using Hybrid Command all sync with the usual way of high command module, and then its leader init script call, so I guess thinking it through it would work anyway.

Maybe a test is in order, have you tried using the test mission from the hybrid command thread and try with init/sync and see what happens?

EDIT: I took it upon myself to PM the author of Hybrid Command and see, not sure as its up to others and how busy they may be, but I would see its pretty important to make sure these work together .. because these alone will make A2 super kick ass.

Edited November 17, 2009 by mrcash2009

[fabrizio_t 58]

Just watched the latest video, it's amazing. I observed two things wich about I can't decide if I made the right conclusion, or I just want to beleive :D ,they are:

-when USMC squads had contact, they changed formation from wedge to line: is it because leader quickly observed the situationand found this the best to engage enemies in the village? Will it use another formation depending on the circumnstances??

Good eye.

Yes and yes ;).

-Seemingly two of the four squads layed supressive fire on the enemy, while one tried flanking from (south)east, another from the (north)west...Am I seeing right that squads cooperate with each other, or is my fantasy way too alive?

Not exactly, that's slightly more complex :).

There was no entire squad laying suppression fire, strictly speaking.

All squads were laying down machinegun suppression fire because the entire platoon (sum of 4 squads) was outgunned as a whole. A small percentage of squad riflemen also concurred in suppression fire.

All Al units and squads were moving using bounding overwatch, albeit very slowly.

Squads on wings tried flanking maneuvers from start, "middle" squads tried piercing frontally the resistance, but then resorted to following the flanking maneuver started by wing squads.

If you look at the video at around 4m50s - 4m55s you'll see a map screenshot with movement tracking markers.

EDIT: this image, taken from another test, is very similar and more handy:

If we name A, B, C, D squads from left to right you'll notice that:

A) this squad, occupying the left wing, on contact tried flanking left. Then it suffered many casualties;

B) this squad tried engaging frontally, having flanks protected, but it suffered casualties, and was no more protected by A) on flank, so fell back and followed A);

C) this squad, on the right of B), was the first to get contact, but it was not initially caught by fire and tried to maneuver with D) to double-flanking. Shame enemy was strong on left side, so squad was not able to close its echelon on enemy;

D) this squad, the right wing, just started a right flanking maneuver on contact;

No surprise the battle lasted over 30 minutes against the 12 minutes with same scenario and vanilla AI :)

This looks like a classic and standard-coded behaviour, but FlexiAI always tries adapting to situation, so running the same mission over and over results in different paths taken by AI, depending on friendly groups position, casualtis sustained and inflicted and enemy position.

Sidenote: as a design choice FlexiAI never chooses to just suppress enemy staying in-place when feeling outgunned, in ArmA2 suppression fire is way too precise and staying put renders units too vulnerable. So groups always move, unless completely pinned, trying either to flank or retreat while keep high pressure on opponents. This way they are a harder target for both enemy infantry and artillery / CAS.

In the case of the video results were pretty good, other times they were not so good at all.

I am trying to achieve some good consistency with AI behaviours and that's really a hard, hard task.

---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

To be honest I think this will solve it anyway, all missions using Hybrid Command all sync with the usual way of high command module, and then its leader init script call, so I guess thinking it through it would work anyway.

Maybe a test is in order, have you tried using the test mission from the hybrid command thread and try with init/sync and see what happens?

EDIT: I took it upon myself to PM the author of Hybrid Command and see, not sure as its up to others and how busy they may be, but I would see its pretty important to make sure these work together .. because these alone will make A2 super kick ass.

I think i'll give a try with HC once i got basic AI features finally sorted.

These features include infantry basic tactics (observe, assault, engage, flank, withdraw) + AI controlled taxiing system (land and air), artillery and CAS support.

EDIT: Let me clarify, FlexiAI should work fine together with HC basic features already, what i am pretty sure won't work is just the splitting mechanics (and merging, but this is a problem i can solve on my own side).

Automatically applying FlexiAI to "spawned" groups (created by script or by splitting existing groups) is not an option in my opinion, since i see no reason a mission editor should be forced to have all spawned groups automatically bound to FlexiAI. So we have 2 ways around, both probably simple:

1) Execute some simple instructions from within HC to activate FlexiAI on groups created by "splitting" existing FlexiAI groups;

2) Leave it all to the will of mission designer: if really needed he can easily write a simple script (bound to a trigger) to check if any groups aren't FlexiAI powered and just plain initialize them;

Edited November 17, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Psilocybe 3]

Fantastic stuff Fabrizio, i am really really loving this. Any chance of showing us what its like to come up against a Flexi-AI squad in comparison to Vanilla.

Would love to see it from the other side of the spectrum, however I understand it may be hard to capture, so I fully understand if my request is not taken upon.

Keep up the good work!

[spangg 0]

Automatically applying FlexiAI to "spawned" groups (created by script or by splitting existing groups) is not an option in my opinion, since i see no reason a mission editor should be forced to have all spawned groups automatically bound to FlexiAI.;

Can we still use it without being necessary to initialise it first?

In other already made missions without further scripting?

well done and thx! ;)

[mr_centipede 31]

Hi, I've also been monitoring this thread. About HCS, I dont know if FlexiAI will work out of the box or there's needed a line or two in the HCS scripts.

But if it needed to modify the script, then I think a single line to init the FlexiAI for the new split team... Fabrizio_T, is it a one line init?

As of right now, my HCS will enableAttack false for the new split team... check the split.sqf for enableAttack false, and the FlexiAI init should go there, I think

[kuIoodporny 45]

Another option:

If I wanted to make this beign initialized automatically as an addon, I would add some config variable to wanted soldier base classes which would be checked for every group's leader /allGroups/ 3 or 4 times per minute.

Hope the script will be as flexible as it is named :)

[welcome to hell 23]

Hi! Will this mode improve AI combat efficiency in terms of time it takes for the AI to find/engage a treat like Zeus AI?

I would like to see AI act like real players

- When fired upon instantly run for the nearest object in between the target and the shooter. And not just go prone in the middle of the open field.

- Stack up on buildings/corners

- Instantly spot/engage enemies instead of looking around for 10 seconds before firing a single shot.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi people, i am going to answer to you all ;)

Fantastic stuff Fabrizio, i am really really loving this. Any chance of showing us what its like to come up against a Flexi-AI squad in comparison to Vanilla.

Would love to see it from the other side of the spectrum, however I understand it may be hard to capture, so I fully understand if my request is not taken upon.

Keep up the good work!

Here you go, Vanilla behavior from the exact same scenario and with identical skill settings (and my remarks):

As you can see vanilla USMC lost over 90% of their men (compared to around 56% of FlexiAI as seen in previously posted image) as well as the battle.

---------- Post added at 04:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 PM ----------

Can we still use it without being necessary to initialise it first?

In other already made missions without further scripting?

well done and thx! ;)

As i said before i'm pretty sure FlexiAI is likely to break gameplay mechanics for most existing user-made missions, since it renders AI behaviour less predictable. However i'll look into the possibility to auto-activate it.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

Hi, I've also been monitoring this thread. About HCS, I dont know if FlexiAI will work out of the box or there's needed a line or two in the HCS scripts.

But if it needed to modify the script, then I think a single line to init the FlexiAI for the new split team... Fabrizio_T, is it a one line init?

As of right now, my HCS will enableAttack false for the new split team... check the split.sqf for enableAttack false, and the FlexiAI init should go there, I think

I can provide a single line init if needed ;)

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Another option:

If I wanted to make this beign initialized automatically as an addon, I would add some config variable to wanted soldier base classes which would be checked for every group's leader /allGroups/ 3 or 4 times per minute.

Hope the script will be as flexible as it is named :)

Struggling to give this mod the maximum flexibility, i'll consider your suggestion.

---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 PM ----------

Hi! Will this mode improve AI combat efficiency in terms of time it takes for the AI to find/engage a treat like Zeus AI?

I would like to see AI act like real players

- When fired upon instantly run for the nearest object in between the target and the shooter. And not just go prone in the middle of the open field.

- Stack up on buildings/corners

- Instantly spot/engage enemies instead of looking around for 10 seconds before firing a single shot.

Scripting units properly move into cover is a tricky task in ArmA2. I see Solus has already written his own logic for that. I think i'll wait for some better documentation of covering mechanics by BIS and some more patches before considering trying scripting my own logic. Problem with rewriting this stuff is that it eats a lot of cpu cycles and i'm not sure i'm willing to sacrify them to such a feature.

Stack up on buildings/corners: vanilla AI is already capable of that, problem is it's not much consistent. I bet patches will make this behaviour more reliable.

I find FlexiAI is coping quite well with "Zeus AI Combat Skills", i think there's no need to further develop my former cfgAiSkill/characters2 mod, Protegimus's work is valuable and will complement well FlexiAI.

Edited November 19, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[KNac 10]

Hi Fabrizio, excellent job, I'm sure this is going to change game radically (along with last betas which are looking to improbe vanilla AI a bit and other mods like Zeus AI) and I can't wait to test it.

But as mostlly MP player, I've read you MAYBE will add parts of the AI to units under player command, but don't know for sure. Please do it if you can, as the AI can get pretty silly without a lot of micro which sucks specially under fire. Also would be possible to add this to some of the MP modes which are not pure pvp or are hybrid (like warfare), it would enhance the game a lot (right now AI in these games a lot of time is just cannon fodder).

Now a few more questions, I think you have said you will be working on basic infantry, CAS/arty support and insertion/extraction by helo. Do you plan to add AI for other combined arms at some point? (mechanized infantry, armor support, etc.)

[Lucan946 10]

Just to clarify something here: to activate the AI, you will have to spawn a module or a logic, then sync it to the leaders of every squad that you wish to use it with, and put in a fairly simple line of code to determine the behavior of the group?

Oh, and is there a behavior for armoured units? (I.E BMP-3, T-72s, etc)

[spangg 0]

As i said before i'm pretty sure FlexiAI is likely to break gameplay mechanics for most existing user-made missions, since it renders AI behaviour less predictable. However i'll look into the possibility to auto-activate it.

Would be great I'd like to play warfare or other not scripted games in SP and it would give a great volume of immersion to it.

[turin turambar 0]

It shouldn't break realistic, well designed, not-too-scripted missions that are basicallly engagements between two forces.

[welcome to hell 23]

Scripting units properly move into cover is a tricky task in ArmA2. I see Solus has already written his own logic for that. I think i'll wait for some better documentation of covering mechanics by BIS and some more patches before considering trying scripting my own logic. Problem with rewriting this stuff is that it eats a lot of cpu cycles and i'm not sure i'm willing to sacrify them to such a feature.

Stack up on buildings/corners: vanilla AI is already capable of that, problem is it's not much consistent. I bet patches will make this behaviour more reliable.

I find FlexiAI is coping quite well with "Zeus AI Combat Skills", i think there's no need to further develop my former cfgAiSkill/characters2 mod, Protegimus's work is valuable and will complement well FlexiAI.

Well if the moving to cover logic does not make it into your mod i hope it will be compatible with Souls' logic.

It would be great to see coders that have such experience work as a team to improve the game and please the community :)

Once Operation Arrowhead launches and ACE mod is complete it would be nice to have AI soldiers that have combat skills comparable to real players. Making Coop and single player experience more realistic and rewarding.

[Inkompetent 0]

Once Operation Arrowhead launches and ACE mod is complete it would be nice to have AI soldiers that have combat skills comparable to real players. Making Coop and single player experience more realistic and rewarding.

I hope you either mean really, really worthless and clueless players, or just like to daydream? :P

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi Fabrizio, excellent job, I'm sure this is going to change game radically (along with last betas which are looking to improbe vanilla AI a bit and other mods like Zeus AI) and I can't wait to test it.

But as mostlly MP player, I've read you MAYBE will add parts of the AI to units under player command, but don't know for sure. Please do it if you can, as the AI can get pretty silly without a lot of micro which sucks specially under fire. Also would be possible to add this to some of the MP modes which are not pure pvp or are hybrid (like warfare), it would enhance the game a lot (right now AI in these games a lot of time is just cannon fodder).

Now a few more questions, I think you have said you will be working on basic infantry, CAS/arty support and insertion/extraction by helo. Do you plan to add AI for other combined arms at some point? (mechanized infantry, armor support, etc.)

I'll eventually look into AI improvements for player led groups, but later. Maybe with a different module.

Actually i am focusing on basic infantry infantry, as FlexiAI was originally thought as a infantry tactics improvement mod. That said, FlexiAI will be hopefully capable of handling a variety of different group typers (mechanized, armoured, air force) as reinforcements/support groups, but with no special tactics added. Problem is that while infantry tactics are pretty straightforward to some extents, i simply don't know enough about armoured units tactics and so on ...

---------- Post added at 07:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 PM ----------

Just to clarify something here: to activate the AI, you will have to spawn a module or a logic, then sync it to the leaders of every squad that you wish to use it with, and put in a fairly simple line of code to determine the behavior of the group?

Oh, and is there a behavior for armoured units? (I.E BMP-3, T-72s, etc)

Yes you just add a module, sync leader and put some init.

I am currently working on finding a light/flexible solution to join groups on-the-fly.

No special behaviour for armoured units, as i said above.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

Would be great I'd like to play warfare or other not scripted games in SP and it would give a great volume of immersion to it.

I know, but i can't really tell how existing missions are supposed to work with FlexiAI. For sure many rambo-like missions (yes, they are many even for ArmA2) definetely won't.

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

It shouldn't break realistic, well designed, not-too-scripted missions that are basicallly engagements between two forces.

I agree, realistic and well designed missions are likely probably work ;)

Ok, enough PR :)

Now back to the drawing board, i have to checkout latest beta build.

Yesterday i had myself bombed (arty strike) for the very first time by some concealed AI units ... those damn cowards missed me and then withdrew. I was not even able to spot them :)

Edited November 24, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[dayglow 2]

FlexiAI is targeted to AI led groups.

On a sidenote, since i hate micromanaging things, i am also willing to activate some FlexiAI-like features for Player led groups (automatic formation and stance switch, automatic hold fire, automatic catchup with leader), but that's a whole different story / many people won't like it ...

This is exactly what I am looking for. As a squad leader of AI troops I find it very hard to keep them with me in an assault. I have to play constant switching between Aware and Danger so that they will keep up with me while I sprint a few hundred meters to a better position / move to contact and so they find cover when I'm moving slow.

So far I'm playing a lot with SLX and it has massive improvments to AI except I can't keep them with me. They are either too slow or too relaxed moving around.

[Psilocybe 3]

Now back to the drawing board, i have to checkout latest beta build.

Yesterday i had myself bombed (arty strike) for the very first time by some concealed AI units ... those damn cowards missed me and then withdrew. I was not even able to spot them :)

OMG... Are you serious? That is bloody awesome!

Just updated my rig too, cant wait to get my hands on this!

[extreing 10]

hello, I have several AI mod installs and combined to obtain the best result in the behavior of the same and I'm hoping this mod with great hope the question is flexi AI will have compatibility with Zeus and SLX mod ai? if not say how they might work well together and if we can make that all work in the best possible harmony would have a very advanced ai ..

That would be all and thank you for investing your time in improving the simulator I think it will be the only game we finished playing old:) L.(translated by google

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I'm really looking forward to this one.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hello, a little update.

Yesterday i worked mostly on tweaking FlexiAI to cope with latest beta patch build 60588.

This patch features some major config fixes that had big impact on AI behavior.

Today i worked on CQB improvements, namely creating a brand new script to allow FlexiAI units to aggressively use handgrenades as an offensive weapon in a urban environment.

Now they're at least decent in lobbing grenades over roofs and quite lethal against enemy campers :).

---------- Post added at 10:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 PM ----------

hello, I have several AI mod installs and combined to obtain the best result in the behavior of the same and I'm hoping this mod with great hope the question is flexi AI will have compatibility with Zeus and SLX mod ai? if not say how they might work well together and if we can make that all work in the best possible harmony would have a very advanced ai ..

That would be all and thank you for investing your time in improving the simulator I think it will be the only game we finished playing old:) L.(translated by google

FlexiAI mod should have no problem in working with Zeus mod (i'm just running it).

SLX is a complex mod tweaking many gameplay mechanics (great work with latest version, Solus!), hard to get some real compatibility since some features will just plain overlap ... Maybe FlexiAI will be compatible with some SLX features.

Edited November 29, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[extreing 10]

hello thanks for your response, I wanted to let you know I have an idea for this game and not whether it is possible to do that in the army there a plant that serves the calls of the platoons etc. before calling reinforcements or ask any danger some kind of help. Well my idea is for example put in a city 1 bunch of U.S. and 3 Russians attack squads, plus 2 platoons of the first force in another city not far away and seeing that his platoon attacked outnumbered and knowing he has to defend the position prompted reinforcements to the 2 platoons from the nearby city and come to help without any init file or pbo only some modules, and if it is possible I could tell

because when you put several platoons have no communication between them and each goes its own way and that really takes away as some are concerned only the editor to create battles. hopefully my idea is well understood

that is thanks

Edited November 30, 2009 by Extreing

[mr.g-c 6]

Hi,

[*] Groups communication: AI group leaders share informations with nearby friendly groups;

[*] Groups cohordination: AI group leaders try to cohordinate action with other nearby groups;

[*] Support: AI group issues calls for artillery strikes or CAS;

[*] Logistics: AI group requests pickup / extraction;

I hope that the above listed features are choseable/configurable?

Because not always its realistic or wanted by the mission designer that those thing can happen :D:p

[fabrizio_t 58]

Hi,

I hope that the above listed features are choseable/configurable?

Because not always its realistic or wanted by the mission designer that those thing can happen :D:p

Up to mission editor will and as simple as possible.

Want CAS? Put air units of your choice on the editor, sync'em to FlexiAI module, drop a single line into units leader INIT field to tell FlexiAI group is intended to be used as CAS and optionally tell which infantry groups are / aren't supposed to call it.

AI will call CAS on its own when needed.

Want ARTY? Put a mortar, MLRS or whatever BIS-supported battery in editor, sync it to BIS arty module, then sync it to FlexiAI module and finally initialize as above.

Also you will be able to enable/disable both CAS and ARTY support at runtime for specified groups, if needed.

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

hello thanks for your response, I wanted to let you know I have an idea for this game and not whether it is possible to do that in the army there a plant that serves the calls of the platoons etc. before calling reinforcements or ask any danger some kind of help. Well my idea is for example put in a city 1 bunch of U.S. and 3 Russians attack squads, plus 2 platoons of the first force in another city not far away and seeing that his platoon attacked outnumbered and knowing he has to defend the position prompted reinforcements to the 2 platoons from the nearby city and come to help without any init file or pbo only some modules, and if it is possible I could tell

because when you put several platoons have no communication between them and each goes its own way and that really takes away as some are concerned only the editor to create battles. hopefully my idea is well understood

that is thanks

That's the way FlexiAI is supposed to work, sooner or later :)

Edited December 1, 2009 by fabrizio_T

[Biba92 10]

Up to mission editor will and as simple as possible.

.....[/Quote]

This sounds awesome !