The trials & tribulations of a noob.

[Langnasen 10]

Well, after another day of trying out the multiplayer component of this game I'm about ready to collect my hat and coat.

Firstly there are very few populated servers (in comparison to popular games like CoD etc).

And on those that are populated, how many up-themselves jerks are there? Quite a few. I've read the manual, if it can be called that, from front to back. Now I don't know if BI, or server admins, think new players pick up everything by a form of psychic osmosis, but I had no clue that certain vehicles weren't to be driven (the HQ something or other). I've now been kicked twice for doing it. Didn't mean to, just I spawned in the arse-end of nowhere (for the umpteenth time), and being a bit tired of jogging over three klicks to get where the action was I jumped at the chance of a ride. "Siggi, DON'T MOVE THE HQ!!!" Do what? Kicked. Go back in, apologise, offer to move it back under cover, no answer.

Then we have the mysterious case of the non-existant helos. I've been in a few 16 vs 16 servers. Never see a pilot-slot on the red side, but often see Cobras flying overhead. What's going on there then? I have TIR and a stick and rudders and can fly the choppers well enough to get up, move and land in one piece. But apparently nobody has them on the servers.

The net-code...I thought the jerk-fest I first witnessed, on the Beserker server, was down to it's too-many players (50 vs 50), but I've yet to see smooth play on any of the 16 vs 16 servers bar one, that was a very small CTF jobby (was smooth as silk on that one). All the others, everyone jerks around like they're palsied. I play a lot of online games, and this is the only one that is so consistently poor in this regard. OFP and Arma1 did. And now Arma2. Didn't BI think it might be a good idea to sack the last guy who coded the net-code and get somebody who knew what he was doing? Apparently not, but I'm sure they saved a bit, so that's ok then.

Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but I guess I'm only voicing what hundreds of previous OFP and ArmA1 players have felt before they vanished, never to buy another BI title. One can only imagine how many have experienced what I have, thrown their hands up in bewilderment and thought "screw this, I'm gone. CD as coaster, once bitten twice shy...".

Somebody at BI really isn't getting it. Are they? In a game market full of non or poor swimmers the policy of throwing noobs in at the deep-end isn't really that clever, is it. I can't even tell who's friendly and who's the enemy, there are that many variations of uniforms and weaponry. A few ID pics in the 'manual' would have been helpful. I've shot more freindlies than bad guys so far. :rolleyes:

All the above is a good example of why games like BF and CoD are so popular and ArmA inhabits a geeky niche. And you all suffer the results, with a stagnant pool of established players who give the high hat to newcomers who cannot possibly be expected to know what the hell is going on or how to play effectively. I guess it's one of those 'steep learning curves'...but guess what...only a tiny minority of players have the stamina for it, or can be bothered to tell you lot why there are so few people sticking with it.

BI, you can take 75% of the blame, the server admins and most other players can take the other 25. I've rarely come across a more intolerant and un-helpful community of players on servers before. 90% of my chat-questions go unanswered, and that's a remarkably poor show. And then I read remarks from people on the forums, how if only noobs could be bothered to "JUST ASK" they'd get along a lot quicker. Yeah, right. The proof in that particular pudding fell well short of it's hype I'm afraid.

I'm not impressed. I'm not impressed by jerky net-code, an entire class of vehicles that are excluded (the helos), being repeatedly dumped in the middle of nowhere with no transport, and expected to know what's allowed and what isn't when there is f-all in the manual and fellow players aren't prepared to help via chat.

Give all yourselves a resounding pat on the back. But at least now you might have half a clue why there aren't thousands of players instead of only hundreds on the pubs.

I'm off to bathe my finger in warm water.

[Langnasen 10]

......

And there you have it, a perfect example I guess.

[derk yall 0]

I know this feeling, first time playing OFP was hars for me too, but if you look into to comunity deeper, you will find that they are helpfull, but you have to do a a little of own inniciative, because people are angry when some people ask the same question again and again. ;)

If you want a help on the tactics, there is the great Dslyecxi's ArmA2 TTP wich you can find in this general section in sticky topics.;)

Public plays on MP are like a lottery, you never know wich people you will find, but if you join a squad it very better.

About mission design, that depend how it was created/ modified etc. Try several modes/mission and you will find the type of missions you like by the time.;)

Regards Derk Yall

[Langnasen 10]

I know this feeling, first time playing OFP was hars for me too, but if you look into to comunity deeper, you will find that they are helpfull, but you have to do a a little of own inniciative, because people are angry when some people ask the same question again and again. ;)

If you want a help on the tactics, there is the great Dslyecxi's ArmA2 TTP wich you can find in this general section in sticky topics.;)

Public plays on MP are like a lottery, you never know wich people you will find, but if you join a squad it very better.

About mission design, that depend how it was created/ modified etc. Try several modes/mission and you will find the type of missions you like by the time.;)

Regards Derk Yall

I do believe the one and only solution is to join a squad composed of serious gentleman players, because the pubs constitute a collection of snake-pits I'm afraid. Nobody is interested in a sensible gaming experience, much less helping newcomers get to grips with a woefully un-documented game.

I've just about talked my brother into getting a copy. We clean up in other games, multi-crewing tanks and comming over Skype. It'll be interesting to see if we can be as successful with our tactics in Arma2. Oh...assuming we can ever find a server that hasn't excluded tanks too. I've yet to see an MBT.

[nukey 10]

Everyone has been in your position, yeah the big player servers are 99% utter crap. Go find yourself a server with only a hand-full of players on, then you will enjoy it alot more.

I have only been playing Arma 2 for a couple of months now, and from my experience of online play, i've been far from impressed playing the beserker modes and the rest. I agree that there is little information about it,and as such wont bother playing them again. just spawning and having to buy certain vehicles, also not being able to use helicopters etc,is ridiculous.

Like i said, best experience is a small server,get to know the guys there,play a nice mission, where everyone talks to each other, tactics will play a good part in it, and because there is only a few there,they will help you out. People are very friendly on the forums aswel..(well most of them!!).

Dont lose faith,just coz we have!!! ;)

[derk yall 0]

About the servers, it depend on the types of missions, i some modes you need to have a certain rank to raid vehicles. You can make SP/MP missions easily in the editor. If you can't find any missions of your taste, you can download user-made SP/MP missions from www.armaholic.com and try to run them if you have the ability to run servers.

On the squads, you can look in the "squad and fanpage" section in the ArmA 2 subforum;)

[no use for a name 0]

I don't get why you're blaming BIS for crappy servers/multiplayer experiences. Did you ever think that maybe the game runs shitty because the server aint up to specs? Or maybe you can't drive/fly certain vehicles because the server sets the parameters? Why is it their fault that some random players/admins don't help you?

Myself and many others play organized MP two or three times/week and never have any problems with performance and have some of the best fun you can get out of a game. We always welcome new people, and help them as much as possible. And the community is more than helpful for noobs...there's many guides that teach you tactics and commands and how most organized servers play. If you took 2 seconds to look at the stickies in this forum, you would have seen Dslyecxi's ArmA2 Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures Guide. Yeah, you do have to read some stuff; but don't worry, there's pictures!! Sorry they didn't put it in your lap and hold your hand and turn the pages for you...

It's not the games/BIS's fault there's a bunch of asshats that "ruin" the game for you; but there's more than enough information and good people to make this game even better. But people like you coming in and posting with your attitude I can see why no one wants to help

Edited October 4, 2009 by No Use For A Name

[Langnasen 10]

I don't get why you're blaming BIS for crappy servers/multiplayer experiences. Did you ever think that maybe the game runs shitty because the server aint up to specs? Or maybe you can't drive/fly certain vehicles because the server sets the parameters? Why is it their fault that some random players/admins don't help you?

Myself and many others play organized MP two or three times/week and never have any problems with performance and have some of the best fun you can get out of a game. We always welcome new people, and help them as much as possible. And the community is more than helpful for noobs...there's many guides that teach you tactics and commands and how most organized servers play. If you took 2 seconds to look at the stickies in this forum, you would have seen Dslyecxi's ArmA2 Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures Guide. Yeah, you do have to read some stuff; but don't worry, there's pictures!! Sorry they didn't put it in your lap and hold your hand and turn the pages for you...

It's not the games/BIS's fault there's a bunch of asshats that "ruin" the game for you; but there's more than enough information and good people to make this game even better. But people like you coming in and posting with your attitude I can see why no one wants to help

Wow, that's a superb guide! Thanks for pointing it out. :)

[ICE-Raver 10]

I've now been kicked twice for doing it. Didn't mean to, just I spawned in the arse-end of nowhere (for the umpteenth time), and being a bit tired of jogging over three klicks to get where the action was I jumped at the chance of a ride. "Siggi, DON'T MOVE THE HQ!!!" Do what? Kicked. Go back in, apologise, offer to move it back under cover, no answer.

.

When you spawn at the mobile HQ you have to hoof it, or go to the HQ menu and have it spawn you a bike or motorcycle.

There are only 2 HQ's in the game and when you get it too close to the zone it gets blown up and no one can spawn until someone is able to fly in with a wreck chopper and haul it back to base for repairs. Thats why they don't want you to move it. Yes I know it is usually a long way from the zone, but you would be surprised how quick and easy the AI can take it out without getting all the way there.

[W0lle 1050]

Somebody at BI really isn't getting it. Are they? In a game market full of non or poor swimmers the policy of throwing noobs in at the deep-end isn't really that clever, is it. I can't even tell who's friendly and who's the enemy, there are that many variations of uniforms and weaponry. A few ID pics in the 'manual' would have been helpful. I've shot more freindlies than bad guys so far. :rolleyes:

Welcome to the world of simulations, it's not supposed to be easy. This is NOT BF/COD/whatever where your enemies are clearly marked so you surely can't miss them. Let's hope you never join the military because there also it's up to you to decide between friend and foe.

As said above, for most of your complaints BIS can't be held responsible. It's not their fault if in a custom MP scenario there are no helicopters or you're spawned miles away.

The only valid complaint is the netcode. Might be that its not perfect but once again, this is not BF/COD/whatever with tiny maps and a couple of units but an open world simulations with almost no limitations.

Also, if the mission you played is poorly designed (bad scripting, way too many objects etc) then it's not BIS fault at all.

However, even if a BI developer would read your lengthy and mostly irrelevant rant, he would have stopped where the bashing started.

[Langnasen 10]

Welcome to the world of simulations, it's not supposed to be easy. This is NOT BF/COD/whatever where your enemies are clearly marked so you surely can't miss them. Let's hope you never join the military because there also it's up to you to decide between friend and foe.

Lol at that. I've served in the British army and the FFL and also did a stint in Bosnia as a volunteer. But lest I be accused of being one of those internet nuts "who was in the SAS, honest!" I won't elaborate. Suffice to say the real world offers a visual clarity no game can match, and especially not when one is handicapped by a sub-par graphics-card. And the military does tend to offer aids to effectively ID ones enemy, something BI would do well to take note of.

I take the point on netcode being subject to the scale of the environment and complexity of the game itself (how much stuff is being calculated, and to what degree).

As for "stopping where the bashing started", as any person with a military background appreciates, there is no such thing as bad intelligence.

[dogz 10]

As a noob I played on AU public servers regularly and apart from the numerous TK dips and Hax, I found if I asked a few Qs about how to play on the particular server, I was always given lots of help.

I learnt about MHQs and stuff by waiting and watching and listening to VON or just following others for a while.

[cm 0]

join a clan/squad or whatever. Team-work and tactical play will be 100x better than any kind of pub play.

[kklownboy 43]

When you join a server you DL load the mission. Then you can start your own Lan game and play it by your self. Or you can even find the mission maker or type of game, and ask him here in the forums... Best way to tell the difference of factions is to use the Bis editor, and place all the different types around and work it out. As for lame Evo, Dom, or Warfare servers well there lame.

No helicopters is a better game on pubs, helicopters spam the field 9 out of ten times and just mess it up for the ground guys. So i blame you for your own bad time.

[4 IN 1 0]

Lol at that. I've served in the British army and the FFL and also did a stint in Bosnia as a volunteer. But lest I be accused of being one of those internet nuts "who was in the SAS, honest!" I won't elaborate. Suffice to say the real world offers a visual clarity no game can match, and especially not when one is handicapped by a sub-par graphics-card. And the military does tend to offer aids to effectively ID ones enemy, something BI would do well to take note of.

I take the point on netcode being subject to the scale of the environment and complexity of the game itself (how much stuff is being calculated, and to what degree).

As for "stopping where the bashing started", as any person with a military background appreciates, there is no such thing as bad intelligence.

I think the best idea is to stay away from EVO, DOM or such server, but then again there just isnt enought mission only server which is something out of the hands of BI

[Langnasen 10]

Thanks guys. I'm in the process of applying for a squad now, so hopefully the pubs will soon be a thing of the past. :)

[Bulldogs 10]

Never played on non-Aus servers but I can tell you that the people on Aus servers are pretty good, except for the occasionally TKer that always gets hammered by everyone then banned anyways.

Although, since BF2 was mentioned, as an offtopic note, I've played Project Reality on Aus and US servers and I can tell you that the Aus servers are horrible, to the point that if you ask a question in open chat they'll vote to kick you from the server, at least that's my experience with them.

[4 IN 1 0]

Thanks guys. I'm in the process of applying for a squad now, so hopefully the pubs will soon be a thing of the past. :)

good to hear, since I dont know which clan you are joining i wish it is one of those that would play tactically, like shack tac or alike :)

[rekrul 7]

This community is elitist, if not by nature but experience. ;) As you already know, it's a very hard game to master and it's a tough road to get there. Unfortunately an ArmA session is only as good as your fellow players. Most of the good ones are "burned out" in the sense that often newbies comes in and wants everything handed to them/explained like you wanted (and is not unreasonable, it just doesn't happen here) instead putting the effort in like they did.

That means that a good player has to take a large part of his playtime to explain tons of basic stuff to you only to find out that newbie often wants a COD/BF-like game and in frustration the newbie shoots you in face and destroys the base. Or he gets no help at all and in frustration the newbie shoots you in face and destroys the base. :)

This is why the majority of the public servers are kind of a shithole to play in. For both OFP and ArmA1 I think my playtime at public servers totaled in at <2 hours. I only played with friends and we were on skype. It's also hard for BIS to predict how the community will turn out and what they should document. Also, if they were to do alot of work on manuals - I would insist that it was put in to documenting the editor further. :)

Your "salvation" came in this forum and there are some incredible resourceful people here who are really helpful, but they rightfully chose the time for when they spend their time on it. Alas, most newbies gives up either through the buggy campaign and those who plays online experience far less action than they imagined and gives up. Not many bother to check the forums.

[jw custom 56]

I think the best idea is to stay away from EVO, DOM or such server

I have had some great experiences on Domination servers, really nice communication/teamwork ;)

[Langnasen 10]

This community is elitist, if not by nature but experience. ;) As you already know, it's a very hard game to master and it's a tough road to get there. Unfortunately an ArmA session is only as good as your fellow players. Most of the good ones are "burned out" in the sense that often newbies comes in and wants everything handed to them/explained like you wanted (and is not unreasonable, it just doesn't happen here) instead putting the effort in like they did.

That means that a good player has to take a large part of his playtime to explain tons of basic stuff to you only to find out that newbie often wants a COD/BF-like game and in frustration the newbie shoots you in face and destroys the base. Or he gets no help at all and in frustration the newbie shoots you in face and destroys the base. :)

This is why the majority of the public servers are kind of a shithole to play in. For both OFP and ArmA1 I think my playtime at public servers totaled in at <2 hours. I only played with friends and we were on skype. It's also hard for BIS to predict how the community will turn out and what they should document. Also, if they were to do alot of work on manuals - I would insist that it was put in to documenting the editor further. :)

Your "salvation" came in this forum and there are some incredible resourceful people here who are really helpful, but they rightfully chose the time for when they spend their time on it. Alas, most newbies gives up either through the buggy campaign and those who plays online experience far less action than they imagined and gives up. Not many bother to check the forums.

Yes, I appreciate how tiresome it can be for experienced players to answer questions from noobs, I frequently have to do it in one of the games I've been playing for a couple of years (Darkest Hour). But I do do it, because we've all been there, haven't we? I also drive for noobs, to help them learn the ropes, even though I know it's going to get me killed. The advantage is we have VOIP enabled on most of the DH servers, so it's a lot easier. One of the things with this game I find incredibly counter-productive is how the VOIP is disabled, or at least it has been on every single server I've experienced so far. It takes a massive amout of fun and utility out of the gaming/combat experience.

But as I've mentioned, I've applied to a tac unit and also just recieved a very kind invite to play on a sensible server with a group of like-minded chaps. It looks like the roses are coming up.

Thanks for the input chaps. :)

[Steakslim 1]

VOIP is disabled on a lot of servers for several reasons, some of them not always necessary. Usually, a server is kind enough to post the joining info to their teamspeak. I know there's people who do not like the hassle of having to use them, but often the clan/group running the server prefere it that way, as it works as a deterrent for those who might not want to work as a team, especially those who tend to just want to fuck about in some aircraft (by taking valuable vehicles on their own and either getting them destroyed or abandoned in some corner of the map). Limiting the permission for those who wish to fly by restricting pilots to those on teamspeak/ventrillo has it's benefits.

Too often you see someone in the chat say they are some kind of master ace l337 pilot with either the planes or helos, only to see them crash little to no more than 1km distance from where they took off.

[Langnasen 10]

VOIP is disabled on a lot of servers for several reasons, some of them not always necessary. Usually, a server is kind enough to post the joining info to their teamspeak. I know there's people who do not like the hassle of having to use them, but often the clan/group running the server prefere it that way, as it works as a deterrent for those who might not want to work as a team, especially those who tend to just want to fuck about in some aircraft (by taking valuable vehicles on their own and either getting them destroyed or abandoned in some corner of the map). Limiting the permission for those who wish to fly by restricting pilots to those on teamspeak/ventrillo has it's benefits.

Too often you see someone in the chat say they are some kind of master ace l337 pilot with either the planes or helos, only to see them crash little to no more than 1km distance from where they took off.

Well, I've made the point before...a minority of dick-heads dictating the experience for all the genuine players. Which means they get exactly what they were aiming for. It's very sad to see them allowed to win like that.

[Steakslim 1]

Well, I've made the point before...a minority of dick-heads dictating the experience for all the genuine players. Which means they get exactly what they were aiming for. It's very sad to see them allowed to win like that.

It's their server, a common factor in ALL pc games that have an online multiplayer. They pay for the server, they can run it how they see fit, and in most cases they are very fair about it. It is also situation that can be simply dealt with by either complying and joining in on their TS channel (which in most cases ends up a good thing), or just refrain from attempting to use anything that they wish you to be on TS for while operating, or just avoid playing on the server altogether. In no way is this scenario some malicious scheme, or an unfair compromise. Don't assume that the server admin enforcing said rule are dictating dick-heads, who by the way, ARE the genuine players in most cases. It's just a simple request that if you wish to fly, you must be willing to communicate via their prefered application. I've seen this in servers for Project Reality and the old Desert Combat mod for BF. It is a fair request.

I can recall a few days ago, in a Dom server some guy was wrecking a lot of aircraft on a server, to the point that when he took off, I could almost time how quickly the "*User* was killed" message would appear. When he wasn't getting shot down or flying into the side of mountains, he was busy blindly shooting his teammates with the A-10. Now in all honesty he was trying to kill the "bad guys" but he was failing to "communicate" with his fellow teammates even with VON available to him, and no one knew what he was doing up there. It was to the point we repeatedly would spam the chat and VOIP where we were and to not fire, but as sure a shit he'd light us up. It's one thing to recover a CDF Mi-8 and use it as transport, again spamming that there's a friendly Mi-8, and to check fire before engaging (detailing flight path and everything) and the fuckhead still fires at us repeatedly even after telling him that it's blue on blue. However when announcing that we have friendlies within the AO, and he carelessly proceeds in dropping bombs in the site, it's aggrivating. All during this, not once did he respond in either VON and the chat channels. He pretty much acted like we were not there at all. Thankfully his reign of stupidity only lasted 2 hours. If admin with the ability to boot him from the server were present to enforce said rule of using TS/Vent, it would of saved us a lot of grief. It makes you wonder if some people are able to grasp the concept of the game's communication system to begin with, let alone a 3rd party application.

If I sound elitist in this rant, then so be it, but I agree with the measures some folks use on their servers to avoid an overall lack of teamplay.

[Herbal Influence 10]

We need more strict admins on public servers.

And experienced ones.

Those who dare to kick after informing the misbehaving ones.

They will come as they did in OFP.

I don't like many serverssituations too.

And I was really enerved though I am an ol' OFP and Armed Assault gamer since 2001.

First I hoped that school holidays will soon be over.

Now I hope some kids get infected by Dragon Rising (which I will not call "operation flashpoint 2" - for it is not developed by Bohemia).

I just did a three hour game with someone I met on a pub server and didn't know before. It was really fun.

All got nothing to do with Bohemia.

It's the vast freedom Bohemia gives it's gamers.

It's like the internet as a whole: You may go to these redlight quarters ... but you may easily be infected with something. The freedom is immense and people often are not able to enjoy it - like in real life.

I myself consider server owners or admins who do not even answer to a "Hello!" as autist-like and l leave the server. On the other hand - if there are 100 gamers online, I wouldn't say hello, because it's like spamming.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Herbal Influence