FP : DR - News & Discussion

[thesun 14]

I've never heard of him in relation with OFP comunity, but if all in that quote is true, then it explains a lot of things.

[Scrub 0]

Hmm. Mr. Lindop may actually have garnered some respect from me. If he left because he was being pushed by the team toward the namby-pamby arcade direction, that deserves credit. I certainly don't wish him ill, It's just this whole situation is getting silly.

[Pyronick 21]

Hmm. Mr. Lindop may actually have garnered some respect from me. If he left because he was being pushed by the team toward the namby-pamby arcade direction, that deserves credit. I certainly don't wish him ill, It's just this whole situation is getting silly.

If that is true, maybe Crytek might turn out to grow a (worthy) competitor to Bohemia Interactive...

Crysis has grown more tactical than Far Cry. Some may disagree, but it really is a tactical shooter pur sang. Maybe not the typical tactical shooter we know, but the game is built on tactical decisions.

Edited June 8, 2009 by SgtH3nry3

[walker 0]

Hi all

Rumour has it that there has been down sizing of a large number of senior developers.

As I pointed out fundamental error in choice of engine.

No one did the math.

It is not possible to do a rag-doll physic engine in MP with current technology. Maybe in about 10 years ArmA 5 will have it, though I think fundamental physics gets in the way. The second problem is fundamental failure to apply basic Systems Analysis and Design or indeed any form of software engineering methodology. It was built to fail.

DR was built as a massive ubber project. Believe me this is my profession: ubber projects always fail. The developer world is littered with failed government projects built in this way and they have teams of computer scientists and multiple computer contracting firms thrown at them and government budgets to match. From what I hear it will either be a castrated release with most of its promises not delivered or Codemasters will cut their losses and cancel it.

The reason why ArmA II is successful is that it follows the evolutionary methodology with its core engine. It builds on what it has, adding to it or optimizing to improve it, rather than rebuilding. Version by version, patch by patch it gets better. It follows RAD principles and modular object oriented principles. It is built to succeed.

Kind Regards walker

Edited June 8, 2009 by walker
added a rumour

[Desert 10]

Unfortunetaly Clive Lindop has left Codemasters...

Is there a Source for this Information?

[Sugz 10]

The reason why ArmA II is successful is that it follows the evolutionary methodology with its core engine. It builds on what it has, adding to it or optimizing to improve it, rather than rebuilding. Version by version, patch by patch it gets better. It follows RAD principles and modular object oriented principles. It is built to succeed.

Kind Regards walker

Hey :D your not by any chance a software engineer are you? Just finished my second year in a software engineering course ;)

Anyway back on topic.

I can almost see a very strong trend between the recent state of DR and the leaving of clive (if this story of him leaving is true) I saw him during the i34 Last year, and his ideas seemed in synch with the Hardcore realism that fans of the OFP series have come to love and associate. It will be interesting to see the correlation between clives 'leaving' and the change of codemasters priorities regarding DR - either way their decisions so far are proving to be the wrong path, as noticed on the DR forum with the uproar the recent media coverage at E3 has produced.

Its like that i always say as a Web-designer

"Build your product around the user, not the user around the product" ;)

[Litos 10]

Thats a great quote!

The E3 coverage was very disappointing... I wouldn't mind playing the game just for fun, but unfortunately I won't spend my money on it. I don't think anyone here will, and besides, the way they completely destroyed the Operation Flashpoint name is a blow to the original community.

Well at least that E3 gameplay was a good laugh for the ArmA community. :D

[SaBrE_UK 0]

In a way, if OFP2 is bad (or if not bad, a giant step away from OFP1), then what we get is a clear line between the "OFP" community and the "ARMA" community. No more will CM claim they 'own' the community of the original.

[Pyronick 21]

It is not possible to do a rag-doll physic engine in MP with current technology. Maybe in about 10 years ArmA 5 will have it, though I think fundamental physics gets in the way.

Multiplayer over internet ragdoll physics are actually possible with the computer hardware today.

There is enough processing power, I bet an old Netburst-based Xeon processor has enough grunt.

But the lack of home fiberoptical internet connections confine multiplayer gaming to mostly client-sided computation.

Forcing people to buy powerful and expansive hardware.

As soon as home fiberoptical internet connections (exceeding 20 mbit/s) is becoming the mandate, server-sided ragdoll physics can and probably will be used.

But we are probably talking about 2012-2015, which isn't that far away...

Maybe Bohemia Interactive already discontinued their milsim series, or is acquired by one of the bigger companies.

Or ArmA 4 might already be in the works (if the series is continued of course), with ArmA 3 already using new techniques such as real-time raytracing and procedural terrain, vegetation and texture generation.

Most new computers will have GPU's integrated in the CPU as cloud computing and server-sides calculations (do to high speed internet connections) make excessive hardware redundant.

The reason why ArmA II is successful is that it follows the evolutionary methodology with its core engine. It builds on what it has, adding to it or optimizing to improve it, rather than rebuilding. Version by version, patch by patch it gets better. It follows RAD principles and modular object oriented principles. It is built to succeed.

Most software developers still do this.

Look at id Tech 3 (Quake 3, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Call of Duty), most of it has been reused for the upcoming id Tech 5.

Or the Source engine for that matter, which still uses lines of id Tech 1 code which has been reused from the GoldSrc engine.

[Baff1 0]

Unreal uses ragdoll physics and plays over the internet.

There isn't any need to transmit that data, so they don't.

[Pyronick 21]

Unreal uses ragdoll physics and plays over the internet.

There isn't any need to transmit that data, so they don't.

Yes, but it's client-sided. So the "pawns" will never have the same pose.

In tactical games, this could pose a problem for those who want to take cover behind or interact with these ragdoll pawns.

[Sugz 10]

When playing insurgency, (a half life 2 modification) Players get killed and their weapons and bodies fall to the ground, other players react to the same 'pawn' does this just indicate a general consistancy with the ragdoll physica accross clients, meaning that the ragdoll and weapons fell to the same place. with maybe a +/- 5% accuracy, however surely, if the ragdolls are restraint to their movements after a while, then consistancy can be maintained.

[Baff1 0]

Exactly, for interaction such as body looting the only data you need to transmit is the location of the interaction node.

That doesn't help so much for hiding behind the bodies. At least not with any perfect precision. But then how much of your time are you expecting to spend cowering behind dead bodies in multiplayer?

Alternatively you could use realtime animation on the fly and just transmit the logarithm to all computers and let them all calculate the same animations client side. Thats what physics engines are for.

That or do it the old fashioned way and create a number of purely animated death throws.

Personally I find the system used in Unreal type games more than good enough for me. While I have hidden behind bodies in Operation Flashpoint once or twice (in single player), it's not a feature I would miss.

Edited June 9, 2009 by Baff1

[Scrub 0]

Is there a Source for this Information?

Here's one

http://www.linkedin.com/in/clivelindop

And another.. Wonder where I got the first link from?

http://crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=49744&sid=b5c3ef5a35f1115306aad7b90a100dba

Will look for more later.

One more for the road:

http://www.linkedin.com/companies/crytek

Edited June 9, 2009 by Scrub

[boomar. 10]

Looks like they have finished with the AI part of the game then. As said on DR forums, its quite common for people to move on once there part is finished in a project.

Look forward to see what he gets up to at crytek.

[cross 1]

Another E3 Interview with Sion Lenton

http://campaign-archive.com/?u=9611701a44284addcd3b16f1f&id=33c1857537

He spends another fav quote "The damage system in flashpoint is AGAIN realistic" which was confirmed by his earlier TM statement "As you can see, i've taken a hit to the head. It's nothing serious but I am bleeding badly." which you can find here http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-operation-flashpoint/50857

:biggrin_o:

ps..don't mind my sarcasm..he gives some good info ;)

Edited June 9, 2009 by Cross

[Sugz 10]

He spends another fav quote "The damage system in flashpoint is AGAIN realistic" which was confirmed by his earlier statement "As you can see, i've taken a hit to the head. It's nothing serious but I am bleeding badly."

:biggrin_o: :nener:

if you read the official codmasters forums, there is a hot debate on at the moment regarding the stuff seen these recent videos.

What you are seeing there when sian is playing, is presumably Easy mode, however we are yet to see footage of Hard mode where the game is apparently quite unforgiving.

There have also been all sorts of explanations as to why he was hit and did not die.

However it is not a reason to bash the game at all. sorry.

[cross 1]

and the current poll result in OFP:DR forums about demo video.

http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357992

What do YOU think of the new E3 in-game footage? - 213 votes

-I like it. I feel that it is fine as is. 20.78%

-I'm a bit worried, but I have hopes that the final build will be better. 40.26%

-I don't like it. I feel that the animations and realism are sub-par. 24.24%

-I'm unsure at this time. Perhaps with more footage I'll be able to make a decision. 14.72%

There seems to be some concerns after the E3 demo video ...

Edited June 9, 2009 by Cross

[sabre4809 0]

They really have lost it now haven't they. O well, at least I now will save some money.

On a side note: You know that ARMA has exploding red barrels. :o Only ever seen them in one mission though. Blood Sweat and Tears.

[Murphe 0]

if you read the official codmasters forums, there is a hot debate on at the moment regarding the stuff seen these recent videos.

What you are seeing there when sian is playing, is presumably Easy mode, however we are yet to see footage of Hard mode where the game is apparently quite unforgiving.

There have also been all sorts of explanations as to why he was hit and did not die.

However it is not a reason to bash the game at all. sorry.

What I read as stated by on of their mods was that the only difference between easy and hard mode is amount of HUD showing. Everything else is the same.

But I haven't read them in a while so maybe this has been shown to be untrue.

[fumo 0]

So much trouble around the phrase with the survived headshot... I can remember some situation where myself or someone else have survived a headshot in OFP and ArmA too, it really don't happen often, but it happen. I don't know how it's handled in ArmAII, hadn't so much luck since now :).

Also i know two or three people that had really survived a headshot, not in a game, on the streets.

[Scrub 0]

SimHQ had a hands on preview and out of some pretty favorable points, there was one that hurt when I read it: "There will be no peeking" meaning leaning. I'll have to dig up the article.

[sic-disaster 311]

So much trouble around the phrase with the survived headshot... I can remember some situation where myself or someone else have survived a headshot in OFP and ArmA too, it really don't happen often, but it happen. I don't know how it's handled in ArmAII, hadn't so much luck since now :).

Also i know two or three people that had really survived a headshot, not in a game, on the streets.

And surely they took out their little bandage kit and patch it up, and continue to fight after that?

I seriously doubt that.

You are combat ineffective, and being combat ineffective in a game basically means that you might as well be dead.

Not continue to fight on like nothing happened at all.

[eenter 0]

SimHQ had a hands on preview and out of some pretty favorable points, there was one that hurt when I read it: "There will be no peeking" meaning leaning. I'll have to dig up the article.

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_090h.html

[MehMan 0]

I like this bit:

Gameplay is true and tactical; you can go prone, kneel, or stand up.

WOW!