FP : DR - News & Discussion

[Viiiper 0]

Yea for the people who never followed OFPs transition to Arma, OFP2 sure does let the door open for people to say that OFP2 is not Arma2. Which ends up leading into a conversation that spans between both Arma2 and OFP2 - which is ultimately free word of mouth advertising. So maybe... CM is doing us a favor.

Maybe.

Be careful what you wish for, those extra bodies are like the Sierra Leone fighters (if you know what I mean). Serious hard core is what ARMA is all about, you'll have a long road teaching the new players. In my opinion the players that play ARMA are of a different breed and are after a different experience.

Waiting for this thread to die........

Let's not forget guys it's called OFP Dragon Rice.. "cough" Rising now , not OFP 2 DR

What is the point of Trolling ??

Why is there another OFP-DR thread here? and if it's not then stay on topic?

[Scrub 0]

This game series owns one of the most close minded fanboy army of all.

Ya know, that comment gave me pause. I had to really think about it for some time.. Because you're right. No doubt, no argument - there is a hard line most people here (me included) draw. And at times it leads into some rough areas INSIDE this community. I wondered why, and why it's so easy to be skeptical, at best, about OFP:DR.

Here's what I came up with: We are, at our hearts, seeking perfection in this style game. Because BIS started this off, made and improved both themselves and this game engine from scratch, they have our gratitude and our loyalty for their efforts (more or less for some people, no names). Understand this was CREATION. No engine was out there to do this, in fact the new sound engine was created by BIS because there wasn't one that did what they wanted. Without going on forever, C.M. took BIS's idea, and did a 'canned' assembly of parts (like soup, a can of this an a can of that... Volia!), and is trying to pass it off as a successor. For me, that's the root of it. Though deep down I hope they pull off something well, for competition's sake.

[NeoArmageddon 958]

I think FP : DR wont bring much more new people to the arma2 community. It will be more like a filter. Everybody who seeks serious tactical gaming will buy arma2 and every grapic addicted cs/cod-kiddie will buy FP : DR cause of the render pics...

So maybe cheating wont be a problem in arma2 anymore (but in FP : DR^^)

[boomar. 10]

Ya know, that comment gave me pause. I had to really think about it for some time.. Because you're right. No doubt, no argument - there is a hard line most people here (me included) draw. And at times it leads into some rough areas INSIDE this community. I wondered why, and why it's so easy to be skeptical, at best, about OFP:DR.

Here's what I came up with: We are, at our hearts, seeking perfection in this style game. Because BIS started this off, made and improved both themselves and this game engine from scratch, they have our gratitude and our loyalty for their efforts (more or less for some people, no names). Understand this was CREATION. No engine was out there to do this, in fact the new sound engine was created by BIS because there wasn't one that did what they wanted. Without going on forever, C.M. took BIS's idea, and did a 'canned' assembly of parts (like soup, a can of this an a can of that... Volia!), and is trying to pass it off as a successor. For me, that's the root of it. Though deep down I hope they pull off something well, for competition's sake.

Thats a load of rubbish. Codemasters have a highly skilled team and from some of the tech video's, its obvious there is so much going into the game. The Ego engine looks fantastic.

Who cares who's idea it was, people copy others ideas all the time. This is real life, get used to it.

Cant wait for some recent high quality OFP2 screens + recent gameplay video on highest settings etc. Should be good.

Once OFP2 and Arma2 are both released i wouldnt be surprised if another group started working on there own military sim like these. Theres plenty of room in this sorta sub genre of FPS, so ArmA2 and OFP2 dont really need to compete.

Codemasters probably really couldnt care less about BIS, they know OFP2 is gona sell well, they know how to make a good game, and most of all they have the $$$$ for a massive marketing campaign for the game.

[Pyronick 21]

Ya know, that comment gave me pause. I had to really think about it for some time.. Because you're right. No doubt, no argument - there is a hard line most people here (me included) draw. And at times it leads into some rough areas INSIDE this community. I wondered why, and why it's so easy to be skeptical, at best, about OFP:DR.

Here's what I came up with: We are, at our hearts, seeking perfection in this style game. Because BIS started this off, made and improved both themselves and this game engine from scratch, they have our gratitude and our loyalty for their efforts (more or less for some people, no names). Understand this was CREATION. No engine was out there to do this, in fact the new sound engine was created by BIS because there wasn't one that did what they wanted. Without going on forever, C.M. took BIS's idea, and did a 'canned' assembly of parts (like soup, a can of this an a can of that... Volia!), and is trying to pass it off as a successor. For me, that's the root of it. Though deep down I hope they pull off something well, for competition's sake.

Exactly! But anyways, competition is always good.

Even though I don't think Codemasters is a worthy competitor, it will definately make BIS developers more efficient.

If they make enough profit, they could expand. Like what Crytek has done over the years, they now own a couple of renown developing studios while they have the technology.

[dm 9]

Who cares who's idea it was, people copy others ideas all the time. This is real life, get used to it.

The problem for most people is not that they are "copying for BI" the problem is that CM are trying to pass off their FP:DR as sequel to OFP. The sequel to OFP was ArmA, FP:DR is some new offshoot, related only in name. But with the constant BS from CM, a lot of people have grown tired of it, and are staying loyal to the original creators.

[amadieus 0]

Unleash the trolls!!!

Unleash them!!

[boomar. 10]

The problem for most people is not that they are "copying for BI" the problem is that CM are trying to pass off their FP:DR as sequel to OFP. The sequel to OFP was ArmA, FP:DR is some new offshoot, related only in name. But with the constant BS from CM, a lot of people have grown tired of it, and are staying loyal to the original creators.

Well if you were the big guy at Codemasters and you knew you still had the rights thingy to OFP, wouldnt you try and use the OFP name? I know i would, more $$$ this way. Especially since OFP was a success.

Anyway, most people probably wont know Codemasters didnt make the original.

[dm 9]

Well if you were the big guy at Codemasters and you knew you still had the rights thingy to OFP, wouldnt you try and use the OFP name? I know i would, more $$$ this way. Especially since OFP was a success.

And this is where I personally have a problem. CM owns the name "Operation Flashpoint" and nothing else, they do NOT own the rights to make a sequel. Thats where 1 of my 2 beefs come from.

Anyway, most people probably wont know Codemasters didnt make the original.

And this is where my second problem comes from. People who played the original flashpoint (and there are about a million of them) might see "the sequel to OFP" and decide to buy based on that. When the sale should have gone to BI, who do actually own the rights to make sequels to Operation Flashpoint (except that they cant actually call it "Operation Flashpoint")

And this is the point, becuase 99% of people dont know any better, CM's bullshit about "when we made the original" and "finally the sequel to" nonsense is painting a flase picture much worse than the usual pre-renders and PR nonsense.

[Baff1 0]

And this is where I personally have a problem. CM owns the name "Operation Flashpoint" and nothing else, they do NOT own the rights to make a sequel. Thats where 1 of my 2 beefs come from.

And this is where my second problem comes from. People who played the original flashpoint (and there are about a million of them) might see "the sequel to OFP" and decide to buy based on that. When the sale should have gone to BI, who do actually own the rights to make sequels to Operation Flashpoint (except that they cant actually call it "Operation Flashpoint")

And this is the point, becuase 99% of people dont know any better, CM's bullshit about "when we made the original" and "finally the sequel to" nonsense is painting a flase picture much worse than the usual pre-renders and PR nonsense.

Codemasters bought the name Operation Flashpoint. They paid for it. Once you buy something, it's yours.

No one forced BIS to sell it, yes it was their creation their idea, but having one good idea 10 years ago isn't why I buy BIS games.

Idea's don't mean dick. Everyone and his dog has great ideas aplenty.

Implimentation and ability to produce, that's what I'm loyal to.

BIS have proved themselves time and time again in any number of different ways. Flashpoint might have been their finest hour or their defining moment in games production, but no one is living in the past.

[fumo 0]

And this is where my second problem comes from. People who played the original flashpoint (and there are about a million of them) might see "the sequel to OFP" and decide to buy based on that. When the sale should have gone to BI, who do actually own the rights to make sequels to Operation Flashpoint (except that they cant actually call it "Operation Flashpoint")

People who played OFP know very well who have make it, you (and BIS too) just fears that the younger generation don't know it. But who cares about that "BF2-kiddys"? Oh wait, they pay too, right? So BIS don't care about the principles or that we "older" fans don't know who's the real producer. They smell lesser money. That's all, that's sad.

And this is the point, becuase 99% of people dont know any better, CM's bullshit about "when we made the original" and "finally the sequel to" nonsense is painting a flase picture much worse than the usual pre-renders and PR nonsense.

So 99% of the people are stupid? A daring statement.

[MehMan 0]

Bleh, CM is going to just buy their reviews, like they are doing with previews. Everybody has a price, game reviewer's ones aren't all that high.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Judge the different games on your own when they are released.

Dont forget: ;)

You can make some of the people happy all the time, all of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time.

[dm 9]

Codemasters bought the name Operation Flashpoint. They paid for it. Once you buy something, it's yours.

No one forced BIS to sell it, yes it was their creation their idea

Way to miss the point completely. I dont care what its called, I care the CM are riding off BI's hard work, and taking the credit for it. CM owns the right to use the two words "Operation" and "Flashpoint" together as a title. They do NOT own the right to make SEQUELS to the original Operation Flashpoint: CWC.

Jesus, how is that so hard to understand. And this is my point. Vast numbers of people either dont know, dont understand properly or simply dont care. They see the words "operation flashpoint sequel" and they think about how awesome OFP was, and "sweet, I'll get this".

So 99% of the people are stupid? A daring statement.

Dunno where you got stupid from, but yes, 99% of all gamers wouldnt know about OFP, wouldnt know about ArmA, wouldnt know about the "problems" between BI and CM, and they certainly wouldnt know that CM's "sequel" isnt really a sequel at all, its just some game that has the name "Operation Flashpoint" in the title.

[fumo 0]

Way to miss the point completely. I dont care what its called, I care the CM are riding off BI's hard work, and taking the credit for it. CM owns the right to use the two words "Operation" and "Flashpoint" together as a title. They do NOT own the right to make SEQUELS to the original Operation Flashpoint: CWC.

A name define a sequel. If CM would make an "OFP: CWC2-Guba's return!", they could. Because it's theyr name. BIS could still "adapt" a story sequel, but they are not allowed to call it "OFP:....". Just like Monolith and "F.E.A.R.", they had to buy the name back before theyr "Project origin" was named back and sold as "F.E.A.R. 2".

For me ArmA isn't a sequel, it's an other game with the same features as OFP.

Jesus, how is that so hard to understand. And this is my point. Vast numbers of people either dont know, dont understand properly or simply dont care. They see the words "operation flashpoint sequel" and they think about how awesome OFP was, and "sweet, I'll get this".

Jesus yes, it's hard to understand. Or, no isn't. I understand but i have another opinion about. Your point is yours, mine is mine. What have Jesus to do with this all ;).

[Rocco 0]

If Arma2 is bugged at the beginning/unplayable = CM/OFP2 might attract more people

I think thats why we dont have a confirmed release date for ArmA2 yet, BIS tries to release a bugfree game to get good reviews. I think the community will buy both games though to test which one is better, but in the end, the more action oriented/non realistic gamers will play OFP2 while (we) play ArmA2.

[dm 9]

A name define a sequel. If CM would make an "OFP: CWC2-Guba's return!", they could. Because it's theyr name.

No, they couldnt, because they do not legally own the right to do so. Well, yes, they could, but then BI could take them to court and earn a nice bit on the side.

There still seems to be a failure of understanding of the legal intricacies and ramifications from some members.

[Scrub 0]

Wow, please report back to the DR forums that the counter trolling operation is going along well...

Boomar, yes you missed more than one point. Taking a canned engine like EGO and tweaking it is not creation. Can they make something worthwhile? Yes, probably, I'm not at all saying they're unskilled. I'm saying the're consciously living in the shadow created by another company, and trying to pull it off as if it's THEIR shadow. The name actually had value because of BIS's creation. The games' genre 'door' was kicked open and secured by BIS. It's an ethics thing, not sure you'd understand ;)

Fumo, a bit hypocritical and unrealistic to say first that C.M. isn't doing the same in reverse, and also the market needs to grow to sustain development, so yes, the BF-kiddies do grow up, and many, out, of BF to something with more substance.

Again, I hope they do well for competitions sake. They have a lot of learning to do. This is looking like a good first run, though. When they figure out how to optimize the terrain streaming, they may get fast movers ingame. When they get large battles and dense terrain object depth >300m, we'll have a direct contender. Till then (and a few more items) BIS and CM have will have their own markets.

Cheers

[Baff1 0]

Way to miss the point completely. I dont care what its called, I care the CM are riding off BI's hard work, and taking the credit for it. CM owns the right to use the two words "Operation" and "Flashpoint" together as a title. They do NOT own the right to make SEQUELS to the original Operation Flashpoint: CWC.

I don't see why people shouldn't profit off BIS's hard work.

I want everyone to profit. Not a soul alive should be poor.

Like it or not Codemasters were involved in the production of Operation Flashpoint.

Some of that hardwork, some of that vision, was theirs.

I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to continue to profit from their investment in that game just as BIS have.

It wasn't just BIS that had vision all those years ago. With the announcement of a Flashpoint sequel, Codemasters have proved to me that they still do too.

(I draw the line at Clive pretending he was an original programmer. That is criminal behaviour. False advertising. I would laugh out loud if the police picked him up for it).

And with all due respect to your opinion, legally speaking, if Codemasters paid BIS any money to make OpFlash, they own the copywright. Regardless of any silly terms and conditions in a contract, it is theirs.

I don't know the precise details of that contract.

I've heard BIS's side of it.

I like to have both before I make my personal judgements.

If BIS have a case and wish to take it further I'm sure we will all see the court's rulings on exactly who owns what.

So with all due respect to your opinions and theirs, I'd like to withhold my judgement at this moment.

Both games will be judged by their end results. Their names and their pedigree's only serve bring them closer to their target market. They will both have to live up to peoples expectations if they wish to sell.

If their connection to the original title is all either title has to offer, then they will both fail.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Baff1

[boomar. 10]

If Arma2 is bugged at the beginning/unplayable = CM/OFP2 might attract more people

I think thats why we dont have a confirmed release date for ArmA2 yet, BIS tries to release a bugfree game to get good reviews. I think the community will buy both games though to test which one is better, but in the end, the more action oriented/non realistic gamers will play OFP2 while (we) play ArmA2.

Yet all the hands on previews from respectable places said OFP2 stayed true to the original and might not be the game for the cod4 gung ho type player.

I guess you are just trying to make up reasons now so you all got something to say when OFP2 out sells ArmA2 =D =p

[Maio 293]

Yet all the hands on previews from respectable places said OFP2 stayed true to the original and might not be the game for the cod4 gung ho type player.

And by respectable you mean ... ?

[boomar. 10]

We should drop the Codemasters and Bohemia Interactive teams onto a deserted island in the middle of the pacific ocean and not let em off till they are best buddies.

[PhilippRauch 0]

Well, i aint buying FP:DR but i might rent it at the local videorental store for 'testing' ;) ...

[sic-disaster 311]

Yet all the hands on previews from respectable places said OFP2 stayed true to the original and might not be the game for the cod4 gung ho type player.

I guess you are just trying to make up reasons now so you all got something to say when OFP2 out sells ArmA2 =D =p

Anything slower then CoD4 is already being called a tactical shooter, i find that hearing it from game journalists isnt saying that much.

Most of them consider Battlefield 2 as a really realistic game.

[dm 9]

Like it or not Codemasters were involved in the production of Operation Flashpoint.

CM published OFP and did a bad job of the PR for it. They didnt make any content they didnt program anything. What CM DID do was localisation and the voice acting (or at least hiring the company that did it). Yeah, they made Red Hammer, but that sucked a dick, plus we're not talking about RH, we're talking about OFP

Some of that hardwork, some of that vision, was theirs.

No, it wasnt. CM came in at the last minute when OFP was practically ready to be pressed. Theres plenty of info out there to support this. (see http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/Buggs/status_quo_01.jpg?t=1240318324 note "Publisher: TBA" - there is a lot of other info out there about when CM joined to publish OFP, but i cba to find it now.)

It wasn't just BIS that had vision all those years ago. With the announcement of a Flashpoint sequel, Codemasters have proved to me that they still do too.

CM have proved nothing more than they can see that there is money to be made from the franchise. They didnt have the vision to start with, as seen above OFP was practically ready to go to press before CM showed up, hell they dont have it now (no aircraft, no editor, no civilians, no wildlife, all sorts of other nonsense). Flashpoint to them is like BF is to EA, a franchise to make money out of. Sure BI is still looking to make money, but not in the same vein. Spending time programming butterfly AI does not seem like milking the cash cow to me...

And with all due respect to your opinion, legally speaking, if Codemasters paid BIS any money to make OpFlash, they own the copywright. Regardless of any silly terms and conditions in a contract, it is theirs.

With all due respect to your ignorance of the situation, they do not. The only thing CodeMasters owns in relation to OFP is the TITLE "Operation Flashpoint". They do NOT own the IP for the engine, they do NOT own the IP for ANY of the content, they do NOT own the IP on the storyline, the characters, the original soundtrack, the missions, etc etc. CM owns the NAME and NOTHING ELSE. They do NOT OWN THE RIGHTS TO MAKE SEQUELS. The terms and conditions of any contract are not "silly", the terms and conditions in contracts such as this are there for the exact reason as to define ownership. Not some crap idea that "they paid some money so they own it".