Aiming difficulties with ironsights and aimpoints

[50.cal 10]

Hi,

I just felt like coming here to see what you feel about the aiming system.

Here's what I think:

There's a kind of mouse lag or acceleration that makes really hard to acquire targets with the sights on. At the end I've found that it's easier to take down targets up to 100m without using ironsights or aimpoints...

What do you think about that?

Another thing I don't really get is why are we able to zoom without optics to simulate that we concentrate on a specific spot?

Wouldn't it be more convenient to just have a fix zoom factor while using the sights?

If it is to move the sight nearer to the operators head then only the sight should be zoomed not the whole world.

Edited July 16, 2009 by 50.cal

[Master gamawa 0]

I think it's fine.

I don't know about lag. I don't see any significant lag in mouse movement except of a very little one that apparently simulates the weapon weight. I am fine with that!

Zoom without optics: As I see it, the human eye has a much better resolution than our screens. But since 5x4m screens are too expensive, this extra zoom simulates what we could actually see if we tried a bit... which is a whole lot of detail if you ask me...

Same goes with the fix zoomed thing. What do you propose it would be? As it is when you see through the optics or as it is when you zoom through the optics? Don't forget that the extra zoom, which is great for long distances, makes your general view smaller, thus reducing your awareness in an intense firefight where enemies can appear from every direction.

So, you use the sights without zooming for medium target distances (or inside towns etc) and zoom+sights for long distances where losing a bit on the sides doesn't really matter since the enemy is far away.

It's a good system and it works. I don't see why they should make it simpler. If we wanted simpler I guess we would play something else.

To make my self clearer. COD4 doesn't need an extra zoom because you never kill enemies that are 500m away. Arma needs it.

[50.cal 10]

I just feel it's not very realistic to be able to zoom without optics.

About the lag if it's to simulate the weapons weight then it's a bit too much. I would expect to have that amount of lag with a saw but not with standard assault rifles.

I can tell you that I never had that kind of lag with my sig 550 during my duty...

Edited July 16, 2009 by 50.cal

[max power 21]

Don't zoom then. The reason for the zoom is that the human eye has much more accuity than can be displayed on a monitor. Therefore, without zoom, the human players have much less visual definition than they should, and shooting is more difficult, etc.

[50.cal 10]

Please try to behave like an adult keep a clean level of communication with me.

Those "then just don't use it" or "play an other game" are not necessary thx.

The reason why I think a fix zoom would help is exactly because of what you said. To see something at distance I systematically find myself zooming in with aimpoints and ironsights.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Those "then just don't use it" or "play an other game" are not necessary thx.

Those sound like reasonable adult responses to me... and his post has valid arguments.

[jw custom 56]

I think it's fine as it is :)

I did have aim issues when i first played the demo, but now i'm getting pretty fast and accurate :D

Edited July 16, 2009 by JW Custom
typo :O

[whisper 0]

To really see the acceleration at work, enable the floating zone to the max. When in the floating zone, your weapon is accelerated, or... well, I don't know how to explain, the tiniest mouse movement will move the crosshair big time. Once you reach the border of the floating zone, you hit some kind of wall, and your crosshair is suddenly "stuck" moving very slowly compared to inside floating zone.

Now go back insied floating zone. Zoom in. Your crosshair will now move very slowly a bit like when reaching the floating zone border, but on top of it, suddenly appears on my PC a very noticeable lag between my mouse movement and in-game crosshair movement, making aiming very difficult

In fact, inside floating zone, your weapoint aiming is not bound to your current aimpoint and "lags after it", you aim somewhere and the weapon reach your aiming point fractions of a second after. But your aiming point movement is not limited, thus the high speed of movement you get. Only the weapon movement speed is limited. When reaching the border of the floating zone (or when having zero floating zone), your aiming point is stuck to your weapon aiming point so you're blocked at your weapon max turning speed.

The strange thing is that this effect also appear in zoom mode

[50.cal 10]

To really see the acceleration at work, enable the floating zone to the max.

Thx I'll try that.

In fact, inside floating zone, your weapoint aiming is not bound to your current aimpoint and "lags after it"

That's exactly what I mean. I guess it's an attempt to simulate the weapon inertia. The idea is good but it need to be tweaked. The inertia would maybe make your aiming point go further and then come back with an assault rifle.

At the moment it really doesn't feel natural to me. It would be ok for a saw but not for a m16 m4 or AK.

[galzohar 31]

There is an attempt to simulate inertia, and it actually works, but according to other threads and my experience with my older computer it is incredibly bugged on some systems, usually ones that run the game with lower FPS, resulting in an effect worse than what was intended, with added delay on top. Of course this issue should be pretty much the same (or at least similar) regardles of crosshairs/irons/scopes/floating zone settings.

[NeMeSiS 11]

There is an attempt to simulate inertia, and it actually works, but according to other threads and my experience with my older computer it is incredibly bugged on some systems, usually ones that run the game with lower FPS, resulting in an effect worse than what was intended, with added delay on top. Of course this issue should be pretty much the same (or at least similar) regardles of crosshairs/irons/scopes/floating zone settings.

Actually, ive seen the same effect in some other games as well(Oblivion comes to mind) so i doubt it has anything to do with game 'features'.

For now just try to minimize it by disabling vsync and setting render frames ahead(nVIdia)/Flip queue size(Ati). Worked fine for me.

[Drumheller 19]

The "delay" in movement in a lot of the weapons is something that is extremely aggravating in this game :/

[Pyrodox 0]

I've noticed that with my mouse set at 125hz polling/report rate in Vista/Windows 7 and using the default Windows drivers which do not allow it to operate at it's highest sampling rate, I get a very noticable lag-like effect where I can not seem to get my crosshair on a precise target. It seems as if it accelerates beyond the point at which I want it to aim no matter how slowly I move it.

However, when I install the "hacked" files that allow 1000hz polling/report rate and the drivers that allow my mouse to run at 1600DPI sampling rate, the problem dissappears.

[50.cal 10]

For ppl experiencing oversensitive mouse reaction it sounds more like a hardware/driver related bug.

The problem I'm mentioning seems to be related to the inertia simulation. Maybe the best way to make everybody happy would be to make it optional. The more optional things we have the better!

Eliminating the floating zone improve the overall aiming abilities but doesn't eliminate the mouse lag/ weapon inertia.

You can see in the latest dev diary video at 06:40 (

) that we are not the only one having difficulties to aim properly :D

By the way it is related to the floating zone in this precise case.

Edited July 17, 2009 by 50.cal
precision

[Curry 10]

It simply doesn't feel natural. Additional the ironsights for the AKs completely suck balls. Worst ironsights in this simulation. They are in need of a huge overhaul.

[Inkompetent 0]

It simply doesn't feel natural. Additional the ironsights for the AKs completely suck balls. Worst ironsights in this simulation. They are in need of a huge overhaul.

What they need is a blurred rear post so that it doesn't obstruct the view so much.

Heck, all guns need a blurred rear post. The rear sight on the M4/16 is called a 'ghost ring' for a reason.

[galzohar 31]

The blurred thing only really works in games that have 2d model for their sights. It is much much much harder to implement when using 3d sights. It would be great and is important to have, but I'm just not sure technology is up for it yet.

[Murklor 10]

It is much much much harder to implement when using 3d sights.

No its not, its called pixel/vertex shaders and depth of field simulation... In terms of skill required that's harder than blurring a static 2D image yes, but hey BIS programmed the Arma 2 graphics engine: A simple pixel shader is nothing. The technology has been readily available since what, the last 5 graphics card generations? ;)

[galzohar 31]

I didn't mean blurring in "doesn't look as clear", but blurring as "semi-transparent" like you get when you shoot with 2 eyes open IRL.

[Murklor 10]

I didn't mean blurring in "doesn't look as clear", but blurring as "semi-transparent" like you get when you shoot with 2 eyes open IRL.

That's just combining transparency and depth of field blur...

[galzohar 31]

The problem is doing partial transparency on a 3rd model, which is the main thing that makes the game represent the RL benefits of 2-eye-open shooting. The blur is not the main effect here, just an extra eye candy.

[Taurus 20]

I use the aimpoint and iron sights at daytime, but the aimpoint blinds me at night using nv goggles.

real aim points has the possibility to lower the brightness.

So I voted:

Forget aimpoints and ironsights I'm using the crossair now.

Can not see how I would be able to play on higher difficulties tho' as the crosshair* is removed then.

(Still playing the demo so I wouldn't know if this has been fixed in the retail version)

* crosshair odd word that is.

Did Robert Hooke add two hair shafts to a scope and put them like a cross?

The wikipedia doesn't say

[HOPEnSPIRIT 10]

VOTED: No problem it reacts as it should...don't change anything!

Must be something to do with some peoples system performance, mines awesome.

[LT. Razgriz 10]

OTHER than the problems with the AK ironsights, and the fact I don't quite understand how Kobras work, I think they're fine.

[Alex72 1]

No problem no lag and we all know WHY there is zoom. Its old news now. Please read the forum and game history before clanking down on zoom in FPS games. ;)

Alex