Ghillie suit could use some improvement against AI

[Kabolte 10]

So I set up a mission where there was me and a spotter outside Novy Sobor and Stary Sobor. I had an ACM synced to me and there were 4 civilians in the town with ACM's sync'd to them. It was great to act like a sniper and just camp out, but then, a patrol of enemy soldiers approached. Their path was maybe 20 meters in front of us, and I was amazed at how they walked by without noticing us. I thought, cool, even though the ghille suit doesn't match the vegetation, it's programmed like I'm invisible and they can't even see me! But then, right as that thought crossed my mind, the squad leader turned around in a split second and shot me.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/Kabolte/Videogames/Arma/arma2_sniper-1.jpg

What I'm asking is if the ghille suit could be made so that unless you move, fire, or the enemy is standing right on top of you, a player in a ghillie suit won't be detected by AI. If this can't be done, I'm also asking if anyone could possible make a mod that does this? Thanks

edit: Of course only if he's prone

Edited July 9, 2009 by Kabolte

[Jex =TE= 0]

I would imagine that other restrictions would be needed to offset the advantage of being invisible. Perhaps you can only use the suit laying down and it takes a minute to deploy i.e. put on and to take off as well. Otherwise you'll have players running around exploiting the "insta-invisibleness cloak". Anyone remember Robin of Sherwood on the Amiga 500? "huh were'd he go?..."

[An-225 0]

I'm not sure it should be restricted. A real ghillie suit is quite useful and effective, so I see no reason to add artificial balance. Its the mission maker's fault if there are several sniper slots in the mission - don't impose restrictions due to idiotic mission makers.

And even while moving, at a fair distance, it should offer some concealment. Not while up close though.

[shataan 1]

Don`t nerf the Ghillie man. Quit thinking like a gamer. At distances, it should be pretty hard to spot a Ghilliesuit amongst lowlying trees/shrubs etc etc. They blend. Same with close up. But, if they are on the move, just like spotting a man running.

[dayglow 2]

I think he's asking that the suit offers more concealment against the AI which can see you 300m away through the brush. No artificial concealment with other players who use their eyes to search for an enemy.

[Kabolte 10]

Yea you pretty much looked at what I said, and responded like I said the exact opposite

[dmarkwick 261]

I'm currently reworking the JTD Hide addon for ArmA2, my initial conclusions (i.e. firing on enemy who cannot see you) is that they are entirely too accurate is "guessing" where you are, once you've fired. It's this accurate guessing that's the major problem right now.

If their accurate suppressive fire doesn't get you, they simply move right up to your exact position.

[whisper 0]

From config files, the ghillie suits is already half as visible to AI as other normal units

[NoRailgunner 0]

Keep in mind that ghillie suits arent invisible nano suits - even if you dont move. ;)

[Lester 0]

Don't forget :

A soldier wearing a ghillie not in the green is attracting attention like a purple cow. :D

[Apocal 10]

The first post said the enemy was 20m in front of him when he was noticed and shot. Am I the only one who finds that reasonable?

[dayglow 2]

a person well concealed in a ghilles suit in suitable cover would be next to impossible to spot if they are motionless.

[Apocal 10]

a person well concealed in a ghilles suit in suitable cover would be next to impossible to spot if they are motionless.

They are hard to spot, but far from impossible in real life. Especially if they are moving their head, which I assume the original poster was doing since there is no way to move only your eyeballs to look around in ArmA2.

[dayglow 2]

i doubt I could see this 20m away unless I knew it was there beforehand and was looking for it. It's hard enough to see people with light camo not moving in cover, let alone a suit designed to completely blend into the cover by mimicking it

[frederf 0]

I always thought it'd be cool if AI-camouflage was handled by painting the terrain in different zones and your camo would have various camouflage for all of the terrain types independently.

[Kabolte 10]

I could understand what both of you are saying, which makes me think, how about something a bit more dynamic? For example, the longer you stay still the closer the enemy has to be to spot you. It could start at something like 100 meters and under they would spot, then it'd keep getting smaller as time went on, because I seem to remember watching a show where it said snipers could put vegetation onto their ghillie suit, and this could be a good way to simulate that. That was quite a run on sentence. Or maybe, depending on how close you are to brush and trees, the distance could be lowered. It would be a lot harder to spot a sniper in a bush surrounded by heavy brush than it would be to spot one lying out in the grass in real life. What do you guys think?

[bwc153 10]

well its really hard to spot a sniper, theres these pics of a guy who has a ghillie suit on (but is playing paintball) i had to stare at the picture for 5+ minutes to find him 3 of the 4 times.

[householddog 10]

Ghillie = Cloak of Invisibility +5. FTW.

It is pretty well what is being asked for here.

Should you only be spotted when they trip over you?

What were you doing within 20 meters of the enemy anyway?

[Kabolte 10]

I was sitting in one place for a long time and watching Stary Sobor and Novy Sobor for no reason. ACM spawned them next to me.

[dayglow 2]

Ghillie = Cloak of Invisibility +5. FTW.

It is pretty well what is being asked for here.

Should you only be spotted when they trip over you?

What were you doing within 20 meters of the enemy anyway?

How do you simulate the near invisibilty of a ghilles suit if you are motionless in approprate cover against an AI that never 'sees' you, but knows where you are based on mathimatical calculations?

[Mike Miller 0]

I could understand what both of you are saying, which makes me think, how about something a bit more dynamic? For example, the longer you stay still the closer the enemy has to be to spot you. It could start at something like 100 meters and under they would spot, then it'd keep getting smaller as time went on, because I seem to remember watching a show where it said snipers could put vegetation onto their ghillie suit, and this could be a good way to simulate that. That was quite a run on sentence. Or maybe, depending on how close you are to brush and trees, the distance could be lowered. It would be a lot harder to spot a sniper in a bush surrounded by heavy brush than it would be to spot one lying out in the grass in real life. What do you guys think?

i really like this idea! but as soon as you move it should be set back. as soon you fire it should alert AI on longer range e.g. 200-300meters, but they should have still problems to spot your excact position, but could try to surpress the area...

i remember a excercise in my army days where i took about 15min. to put branches, grass, dirt and leaves on my regular camo so that i would blend into the forest better. my hunters passed me on 5meters and didnt see me. then i got them from behind and even the referee who saw me earlier was surprised.

so yes the longer you "dont move" could equal setting up perfect camo and less visability!

[moggel 10]

Very good idea indeed! :)

[CarlGustaffa 4]

As it is a global thing, absolutely not. Although there are many places in Chernarus where I'd agree that the ghillie isn't good enough, in Takistan these places don't exist; you're either in the "wrong ghillie" (desert) in the greens, or you're in the non green areas with nothing to blend into. Laying in this shadowless coverless barren landscape as a heap would make you easy to spot, no matter how good the camouflage was. Also there are almost no other factors that affects the effectiveness, brightness and surfacetype and camouflage values seems to be the only ones.

The people I typically see as "snipers" online doesn't really have much clue what concealment is all about anyways, they rely fully on the effect of the ghillie. I don't want to give them more effect of the ghillie - half visibility should be good enough. Learn to act as a sniper; pay attention to lighting (for the sake of immersion, don't think it matters much), avoid skylining and rather go around the crest - that will actually help you, even if using the crest provides a quick escape route. If you find that you need to go too close for comfort to shoot, well, don't shoot - report what you see instead. Snipers are excellent recon units, of which all hiding bonuses are lost anyway when you start shooting.

[tyler4171 10]

they simply move right up to your exact position.

I do not mind this, becuase one should never stay in one spot to long but if we can dumb down their suppresive fire, life would be like heaven!

[johncage 30]

I would imagine that other restrictions would be needed to offset the advantage of being invisible. Perhaps you can only use the suit laying down and it takes a minute to deploy i.e. put on and to take off as well. Otherwise you'll have players running around exploiting the "insta-invisibleness cloak". Anyone remember Robin of Sherwood on the Amiga 500? "huh were'd he go?..."

a foliage system is already in the game. just make it so if the player is anywhere near or inside a particular piece of foliage, he will be near invisible to ai outside a certain range.

lying in grass should have this effect.