ArmA2:OHMOD Preview

[caprera 0]

Hehehe quite the same for me even if for weeks i kept asking myself "how much stuff they're going to put inside it !?!?"

[RUDOLF 9]

Really Amazing and great Mod! Just can't imagine you could make so many quality stuff by yourself in such a short time!!

Now we could have some real great PLA in ARMA2 and Bink's US has got their counterparts now...

You great guy just made the version of Dragon Rising for ARMA2! Surely, much better than DR-OFP.

Edited November 10, 2009 by ARM2CAT

[clawhammer 10]

Really Amazing and great Mod! Just can't imagine you could make so many quality stuff by yourself in such a short time!!

Now we could have some real great PLA in ARMA2 and Bink's US has got their counterparts now...

You great guy just made the version of Dragon Rising for ARMA2! Surely, much better than DR-OFP.

Indeed :-)

[myshaak 0]

OK, I did some testing.. I think I covered all gameplay features, but I am not an experienced beta tester so I may have forgotten something.

VEHICLES

Z9A and Z9G

- passengers are sitting above their seats

- no command sound (helicopter; like "TWO GET IN THAT...." nothing)

ZSL07 and variations

- you should rename the 30 mm cannon selections according the rate of fire (there is one cannon with two fire modes but both are called just "30 mm cannon")

- gunner's hatch will not open

- window shields will not close when turned out and when engine is on

- commander's hatch always open

- crew not visible through windows when turned in

ZTZ99G

- loader is not rotating with the tower when turned out

EQ2050

- there is a gunner seat and an invisible M2 (I guess jeep variations are WIP)

EQ212 - Repair Truck, Fuel Truck and Ammo Truck

- only three people can fit in while the car could obviously transport more

EQ212 - All variations

- passengers in the back sit too low

- passengers sit too far away from the sides of the vehicle (almost off the seats) - I guess this is to prevent units with heavy weapons or backpacks from sticking out of the sides of the vehicle.. but looks wierd anyway

- you can see a small space between the floor and the front doors when in driver's position (get in as driver and look right and below)

WEAPONS

QJY88

- too poweful (every shot kills, even OPFOR/BLUFOR MGs are not that powerful)

GENERAL

- no ability to deflate/destroy wheels

- windows are either indestructible and bulletproof (helicopters, APCs) or indestructible and totally not bulletproof (trucks)

- soldiers have their head too high when prone (well, they have it a little higher normally, but when prone it is most visible)

- there is no preset PLA group

- helicopters have different crosshairs

Myshaak's testing - 10th October 2009, 19:30

[caprera 0]

VEHICLES

Z9A and Z9G

- passengers are sitting above their seats

- no command sound (helicopter; like "TWO GET IN THAT...." nothing)

ZSL07 and variations

- you should rename the 30 mm cannon selections according the rate of fire (there is one cannon with two fire modes but both are called just "30 mm cannon")

- gunner's hatch will not open

- window shields will not close when turned out and when engine is on

- commander's hatch always open

- crew not visible through windows when turned in

I add a camo glitch on windows with ZSL07 C whith hatches opened. ( i'll take a screen.

[fromz 2]

Thank you Myshaak and caprera, I have read your feedback carefully, and will do my best to slove the bug and incorrect, but about the ammo hit degree, ie QCW05 and QSW06 is too small damage and QJY88 too big damage, -> I have refered to real firearm set of datas, may have some inaccuracy, but I think they are different from US or Rissian ones.

I also will make them more "suitable"

[Drew 10]

I sent my findings via PM, as most of you should :-p. dont wanna give away too many surprises :-p

[myshaak 0]

I sent my findings via PM, as most of you should :-p. dont wanna give away too many surprises :-p

Well, we won't see the surprises in the final version, will we?:p

I also think it would better if we had a collective "bug list" so we can re-check and confirm... and not just report the same think all over again.

[caprera 0]

If we don't have another board to share and seek confirmations tell me where to write and won't be a problem but as now this is the only place. Do you really want to send PMs over PMs with the same bugs listed ? more work for the team and no more...

[Drew 10]

meh fair enough, you know how critical some ppl are tho, and tend to judge other ppl's projects by the mistakes with-out even bothering to give it a try :D

[RUDOLF 9]

Really awesome experiences during testing. Although somethings still need improving, overally, it's a great PLA pack anyway.

The soldier models are very nice and all vehicles as well. The firing power of PLA is very strong and realistic in most cases. Just using a whole platoon of Bink's US with four M2A2 Bradleys and two A1H1 to fight against one platoon of PLA with five wheeled AFVs ( one machine gun squad for supporting ). Every time in game, PLA defeated and annihilated the enemy.

Edited November 12, 2009 by ARM2CAT

[vilas 473]

concerning what stated above: i hope PLA mod uses value near BIS values and connects it to gaming, that mixing with other mod is possible

i hope "hit" and "armor" values are in your mod similar to others (for example 30 mm cannon is not twice stronger "hit" than other cannons 30 mm)

cause 4 Bradleys using TOW should destroy such Chinese AFV as said above

i hope you use BIS armor from BTR90, T72, T90 as counter measure

also it is important what "armorstructural" you use and etc.

in this game armor value for BTR is as i remember ca. 150, for T72 ca. 600 and so on and so on...

also when it comes to ranges, most AI using rifle with ironsight should have range max ca. 300/400/500 meters (depending of barrel length and accuracy of real) with low probability of fire (as BIS weapons have)

[RUDOLF 9]

I think what we need is the realistic values and anminations to the trait of ARMA2, of which called a real military animation game.

In my test, for each PLA mechanical squad, the latest and strongest combination was used as per real PLA's "IRON ARMY". That includes two 89AT soldiers, two automatic gunners and two snipers. Squad leaders and his assistant take 95 rifles with grenade launchers. Actually, should be two soldiers with 87 automatic grenade launchers in such squad. But this weapon now is not available in the Mod.

In the test, the PLA AFV is sensitive and able to fire quickly and timely. Seems they are configed very well. And those Bradleys reacted a little slower with those TOWs. In addition, they were also destoryed by the terrible AT fire from those PLA AT infantrymen.

[vilas 473]

years ago i wanted to state such topic for all modders, but reaction was zero

i wanted people to cooperate on some common real values, but reaction was "we will do what we like and we like individual values"

so ARM2CAT, over 2 years before you appeared here , i made such topic about "somekind of agreement between addonmakers" and belive me, reaction was zero, people not care and in effect , like in OFP, one mod soldiers small team can kill whole platoon from other mod (i don't talk about PLA OH cause i haven't tested it yet, but other mods are using sometimes too strong values)

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=52803 < look at this, and see reaction

there also are addonmakers with idea "my country is best, my country soldiers will have best weapons"

i had such problems in past also, when some people forced "our equipment must be the best"

and because of this there were even conflicts (surrealistic values, just to have best and strongest vehicle)

Edited November 12, 2009 by vilas

[RUDOLF 9]

so ARM2CAT, over 2 years before you appeared here

VILAS，I'm not a new hand here actually. 'OFPCAT' was the previous name.

By way, I used M2A2 bradleys from your P85 for US troops in that test.

Edited November 12, 2009 by ARM2CAT

[Defunkt 431]

If I might beg your indulgence Fromz, I would like to respond to Vilas' post here.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=52803 < look at this, and see reaction

You're absolutely right and many would agree with you (and did within the thread you linked to) but what do you expect should happen next? People are unlikely to form up into expert panels of their own accord and even if they did they have no way of forcing add-on makers to bend to their standards. What is more likely to work is if somebody knowledgeable of both the real world systems and the mechanisms at play in the ArmA engine (I'm looking at YOU here) just starts publishing corrections (or better yet 'fixed' configs) for specific mods.

Add-ons that introduce new vehicles and weapons have little or no footprint in public play but rather become accepted into the 'list of add-ons' used by different communities. Many of these groups I'm sure would choose to first re-pbo with your corrections applied, relieved to know that everything they add is consistent with everything already included. If these corrections become widely used (and I feel they must) I believe add-on makers would eventually make an approach to check their assumptions before release. A lot of work for one person (at least initially) but I do believe it's the most immediate way of instigating a standard while keeping you from becoming embroiled in any fracas about permissions (because you're only posting suggested data).

[Uglyboy 10]

Infantry:

Found a bug on the infantry helmet, it has issues casting shadows on the face/head, couldn't take a screen, will do later.

There is a strange brownish thing in the back of the soldier head, what is that? hair? fur? :confused:

Z9:

Nice aircraft to fly, gives a bit much "light" feeling, meaning that it manouvre too easily, like it's totally unloaded of weapon systems and troops, but fun to fly :) The first version ( A? ) has a .50 cal MG but it's not modelled or i failed to see it completely ( shoots appearing from the air ) the texture quality is lower compared to the G version, not really that noticeable btw;

the G version has that 23mm cannon that is a lot overpowered, i managed to take out 4 M1 TUSK with few burst, ~100 rounds in all, also the indirect damage range seems a bit big and more important, does it really have 1500 ( one thousand and five hundred ) rounds in those 2 containers? :eek: i searched a bit but didn't find any info on that. But as it is, it's a unrealistic powered gun :eek: you can destroy half chernagosk in a couple of minutes :D

Type99:

didn't check the config values, but tried against m1a1s and always won, ( 1 shot 1 kill in the flanks ) tried another time playing as a m1a1 against a single t99, 2 shoots just made the crew to jump out, maybe armor and gun damage value bit high? Maybe it's IRL better than the M1A1 but is just too much as it ( 1 shoot to kill a m1 and 3 to kill a t99 ) will do other tests on this.

"chinese hummer":

I don't remember how it's called :D he have a gunner position and a working gun, but not modelled, i guess it's a placeholder, will do more tests.

Static 50 cal gun:

USMC crewed m2, placeholder of course

Support trucks:

I see that you used ( for now ) the same troop transport truck with different "markings", you probably have already plans for this, but wanted to say anyway. I hope to see proper support trucks ( fuel ones especially )

This is what i got from a brief test, will do lot more with different time condition ( day, night and dusk ) to spot possible bugs.

Thanks for the opportunity to test this beta :)

[1in1class 0]

Keep it up, mod is looking vary nice. Looks like the beta is going nice keep it going.

[caprera 0]

As now i'm working on vehicle damages, but Helos already have shown some agility inconguences during flight, and strage issues when hit.

[fromz 2]

In fact, in the mod production process, I pay great attention to the value setting, and expect all the elements connect to gaming.

Anyone felt value too powerful, I think there is a misunderstanding, if you play a M1A1 even a BMP3, I think they should be instant eliminate ZTZ99 at second, You can test AI control the vehicles, Maybe make differents.

I would like to respond to Vilas' post here:

Relese version will tend to set weapons and vehicles normally, but that doesn't means similar. If a ZTZ99 duplicate the T90 or M1A1 damage values, just a 3d model replacement, It should not be called ZTZ99, right?

However, I think I can fully understand with Vilas' opinion. and agree.

Thanks nabs. :D

[RUDOLF 9]

In fact, in the mod production process, I pay great attention to the value setting, and expect all the elements connect to gaming.

Anyone felt value too powerful, I think there is a misunderstanding, if you play a M1A1 even a BMP3, I think they should be instant eliminate ZTZ99 at second, You can test AI control the vehicles, Maybe make differents.

Thanks nabs. :D

Fully agree with that. The values' setting are good and have been as close as the real status.

Haven't tested with M1A2 but it seems UK Challenger is a hard thing to beat in game. But I won't say it's not correct since Challenger seems in better protection armor anyway.

[vilas 473]

ARM2CAT - problem may be in other thing also, i forget, now i remind myself

i made for P85 Bradley with TOW from 1985

(now TOW is more powerful, and of course i will release Bradley as standalone soon but with new TOW)

so when you were testing it with PLA mod, you had on map Bradley with TOW warhead from 1985, in 1987 TOW2 entered production, in 1992 TOW2B

those new warhead would crash to dust other tanks (1000 mm theoretical penetration, so in game maybe hit =1000 ?? while for old warhead i gave 600 or 700 - can't remember)

but newest Chinese tank which could have (i don't know about protection level of Chinese tanks) strength of T90 maybe could survive TOW from Project 85 ?

i was trying to do values but for 1985, not for 2010, some of my ammo is weaker than BIS, some not

you know, in 1985 ammo was weaker, due to other SABOT rounds warheads

example:

Russian 125mm BM-9 steel (1962) 290mm at 2km

Russian 125mm BK-12 HEAT (1962) 420mm at all ranges

Russian 125mm BK-18 HEAT (1980) 550mm at all ranges

Russian 125mm BK-29 HEAT (1990) 700mm at all ranges

Russian 125mm BM-42M "Lekalo"? tungsten 600-650mm at 2km (200?)

Russian 125mm BM-46 "Svinets" DU 650mm at 2km (1991) (22:1 L/D)

Russian 125mm BM-42 "Mango" tungsten alloy 500mm at 2km (1986) (16:1 L/D)

Russian 125mm BM-32 "Vant" DU 560mm at 2km (1985) (13:1 L/D)

Russian 125mm BM-29 DU 470mm at 2km (1982) (12:1 L/D)

Russian 125mm BM-26 "Hope" (1983) tungsten alloy 450mm at 2km (extended BM-22 13:1 L/D)

Russian 125mm BM-22 "HairPin" (1976) tungsten 430mm at 2km

Chinese/Pak (old) 125mm tungsten 460-480mm at 2km (1993)

Chinese Type-II 125mm 550mm at 2km

2 tanks like T72 but from other countries (Russian and other country) using different ammo can be danger or not on real battle

one country has newest ammo and destroy Abrams, other country tank fires and rounds deflect and Abrams return fire killing them

matter is - what is power (of course maybe military secret) of modern PLA tanks ?

are newest Sabots/HEATs comparable to Russian ? or more to Soviet ? or weaker ? or stronger ?

i have no idea about quality of materials used to military production of Chinese republic

cause non-military quality we know all when we compare for example screwdriver or drills from China and Germany, USA (you can compare number of screws and when head of screwdriver will be destroyed, number of drilled holes in concrete wall, one drill will do 50 holes and broke other 200 and still works),

so i don't know what is REAL power of Chinese metal used on tanks, hardness of metal used for sabots etc. and what is cost of such production, is it made as cheap mass production or quality and expensive

if PLA OH mod has such military-secret informations than they may do realistic addon

when it comes to rifle bullets it is easy - kinetic energy , E=mv^2/2, everyone after primary school knows it, but SABOT, HEAT are not easy to know, specially when it comes to some countries production

other problem is basically weak engine of Arma2, which in fact is like OFP (only graphics changed)

but engine of destruction remained

if you will do tests of vehicles of Arma, you can be very surprised when BMP2 will appear stronger than T90 sometimes or T72

just place on map:

BMP2, T72

use other BMP2 or LAV25 and count bullets fired at targets, you will be surprised what will blow up first

i made such tests :/

and thats why P85 looks different when it comes to power of APCs and vehicles

for me it is somekind irrational and surrealistic when BIS T72 blows up and BIS BMP2 survive after some rounds

thats why those values should be changed in general to all vehicles (specially BIS)

Edited November 13, 2009 by vilas

[RUDOLF 9]

Tows really are effective and powerful thing against any armor. Of course, if the Bradley got any chance to launch and hit the targets, tow actually destoried any armor in the tests. But the issue is in most cases, they didn't get a suitable chance to fire Tows and only just tried to turn around to flee from the continuing fires from PLA AFVs. Also in lots of cases, they were knocked out by the powerful rockets from PLA's 89 and 98 AT launchers. Anyway, in the testing game, they still destroied at least two from those five PLA AFVs. But at last, still lost the battle.

[vilas 473]

maybe something is wrong in models of viewgeometry, fire geometry or hitpoints of PLA addons than ?

if Bradley not fired TOW i am surprised , pelase do test what i said (compare number of shots to BIS BMP2, BIS T72 from BIS LAV25)

and do test of P85 Bradley vs. P85 BMP, P85 T55 etc.

if on PLA addons other vehicles (no matter P85 or not ) not fire - than it means something is wrong in model LODs (fire geometry, hitpoints, etc.)

if one addon "fire" and other not, it means for engine and AI, this second is invisible

for example if you will do in addon something wrong in those LODs than AI can miss such vehicle

there was for example addon for Arma 1 (i don't want to name person) whose units were indestructible

why ?

cause fire geometry lod elements were in other place

you fired head of alien and not kill unit, why?

cause for model structure you fired in air, although as a player you believed you fire in head

but "head" in fire geometry lod was in other place

if something in hitpoints, geometry lod is not right, other AI may not open fire or have very big difficulties to aim (you as a player will not notice problems, only AI will notice and not fire)

in game screen during play you see only ONE of many many LODs

you see "visual lod", you don't see FireGeo, Geo, ViewGeo, CargoViewGeo, HitPoints etc. cause they are important for AI

please put on map some other vehicles (for ex. BIS platoon of Chedaki T72) and than push on them 2-4 Bradleys and look how TOWs smash all in few seconds (but time of reload of another 2 TOWs to double barrel launcher is nearly half minute)

in this game engine there are many limitations

AI won't decide to use HE or AP ammo, AI will fire TOW or M240 , AI can do many decisions unless mission is scripted

probably Arma2 AI behaves other way if see more units of enemy than AI from OFP

cause in Arma 2 i saw many times enemy escaping when whole army of other side was invading city , some units of so called opfor escaped

i don't know if 3 AI vehicles will behave the same when seeing 1 or 10 enemy vehicles (i am not coder, only BIS knows it) maybe when see more enemy they have problem "what target to choose" and for example AI vehicle aims at machinegunner when there are 2 AT soldiers around ?

maybe untill enemy unit won't kill enough (to score points) or "our" units, "our" side won't take him as biggest danger ?

Edited November 13, 2009 by vilas

[RUDOLF 9]

In P85, Bradley seems much powerful than Soviets BMP. But could also be beated out by BMP's missles. In addition, I didn't say Bradley never fired before the enemy. Just in many cases, PLA's AFV hit them at first and they tried to turn away for escaping. Of course, under such situation, seems anyone would have no time to give an accurate fire to counterattack. I think that's real.