Enemy Accuracy way to good.

[Hell_Toupee 0]

From behind grass ;)

Not just grass, they seem to see right through bushes to most of the time.

[fabrizio_t 58]

Not just grass, they seem to see right through bushes to most of the time.

I don't think they can see through bushes.

Also i posted a video showing they don't.

[whisper 0]

No, AI does not see the grass, grass only appears around player :p

That's exactly the point I was making :)

[beita 10]

Simple "test" to shed some light on this problem.

Place two enemy troops, group them, ensure None is selected (so they don't spawn in formation). Place one troop in a close distance to the player, the other far away, try 2-3km. Name the far away troop (a1 for example). Set up a trigger activated by radio alpha that will display the knowsAbout value of the player for the unit a1.

See what happens when you kill the group member close to you. I am fairly certain the troop 2-3km away will get a VERY high amount of knowsAbout rather instantly. Been that way since OFP, would really like it to be changed.

Behaviour can be observed in other ways. Place yourself with a PKP (MG with scope) about 6-700m out from an AI squad. Give them a move waypoint perpendicular to you. Start taking shots at them, ensure you DO NOT hit any of them. I notice that when I am shooting near them, but not hitting them, they take a longer time to spot me. As soon as you hit an AI, bam, they instantly know your position.

I consider this a bug and not a feature. A very noticeable AI "helper", now that they take cover semi-properly, it is more dangerous as you lose sight of them, but they don't lose "sight" of you.

EDIT:

Example mission to prove my point: http://www.4shared.com/file/111614319/af99d53f/ai_knowsutes.html

When you shoot the AI in front of you, the enemy AI on the other side of the island immeadiately "knows" 1.5 out of 4.0 about you.

Edited June 13, 2009 by beita

[fabrizio_t 58]

Simple "test" to shed some light on this problem.

Place two enemy troops, group them, ensure None is selected (so they don't spawn in formation). Place one troop in a close distance to the player, the other far away, try 2-3km. Name the far away troop (a1 for example). Set up a trigger activated by radio alpha that will display the knowsAbout value of the player for the unit a1.

See what happens when you kill the group member close to you. I am fairly certain the troop 2-3km away will get a VERY high amount of knowsAbout rather instantly. Been that way since OFP, would really like it to be changed.

Behaviour can be observed in other ways. Place yourself with a PKP (MG with scope) about 6-700m out from an AI squad. Give them a move waypoint perpendicular to you. Start taking shots at them, ensure you DO NOT hit any of them. I notice that when I am shooting near them, but not hitting them, they take a longer time to spot me. As soon as you hit an AI, bam, they instantly know your position.

I consider this a bug and not a feature. A very noticeable AI "helper", now that they take cover semi-properly, it is more dangerous as you lose sight of them, but they don't lose "sight" of you.

EDIT:

Example mission to prove my point: http://www.4shared.com/file/111614319/af99d53f/ai_knowsutes.html

When you shoot the AI in front of you, the enemy AI on the other side of the island immeadiately "knows" 1.5 out of 4.0 about you.

Maybe you can join the discussion here ;):

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=73139&page=28

We are discussing the exact same point there ... more feedback about the issue is welcome

[max power 21]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonar View Post

Wiki is useless

I didnt realise they gave degree's on wiki being usless????? I

Don't be stupid.

suspect you probably think you have a degree in ....psychology, only at a guess.

For the first time in this thread so far you are correct. I see you have been brushing up on your inductive reasoning and language skills.

Wait a minute didnt you say 0.18. Sorry but I think YOU need to see a psychiatrist!

No, Hell Toupee said 0.18. I said 5%. It was a simple rounding error on HT's part. I don't think that making the odd rounding error is diagnosable. They can help with you getting all bent out of shape about minutia. They even have a radical brain surgery that can help. That said, only you can really put the time and effort in to make sure you know what it is you're talking about and who it is you're talking to in order to avoid appearing foolish.

You didnt. you said, '...the AK74 SEEMS to be able groupings of 2 MOA. As I said see #153

So, again, dont go quoting stuff at me when you dont even quote yourself correctly.

I didn't quote myself, I paraphrased myself... if you want to get really technical... which you apparently do.

End of argument. I have no time for people who cannot have a discussion without reverting to swearing to try and get their point across. Oh btw MOA means Minute of Arc Not bullet dispersion as you would have everyone think.

again from#153

You could have at least lost gracefully.

I appear to have a better understanding of the word "means" that you do. Your statment of would be better written as " MOA, as an example 4MOA means......" Remember to some people here english is a second language, so they dont always understand what we are saying.

No, you really don't seem to know what 'means' means. It can mean 'results in' as well. ie. Inertia means if you stop quickly in a motor vehicle, loose items can be flung toward the front of the car.

§13) Write in English

Please write only in English on the public forums. Avoid writing in any other language or any kind of slang or txt speak since the majority of the members most likely won't understand. In private messages you are of course welcome to write in any language you wish.

One of the forum rules I believe.

ta ta and go read your your notes for your degree and see what it says about people who swear.:nener:

It would not have nearly as much to say about that as it would someone who is obsessing over virtually nothing in order to be obstinate.

You seemed to get the message alright when I said, 'are you shitting me'. It seems we may have avoided the severe situation in which I would have to rephrase myself to foster a better understanding between the two of us in order for this circus to continue smoothly.

[Placebo 29]

I could remember the days when people could discuss topics without reverting to kindergarten tactics, please go back to being mature posters, else infractions will be handed out.

[bloodbomb 12]

I could remember the days when people could discuss topics without reverting to kindergarten tactics, please go back to being mature posters, else infractions will be handed out.

Sadly I'm too young to remember those days :)

To be honest though a lot of people are getting anxious about this topic for a reason mate, its something that many (myself included) are worried could turn an absolutely amazing game into just a good game. One of my friends alone has said he isnt buying the game now, just because of these kind of rumours.

What would really help would be a comment from the dev team regarding this topic, which at the moment is the only reservation I really have regarding ArmA2. Hax bots/AI is a big problem in many games, a game breaking problem in my opinion...please dispel these myths or at least let us know you guys are working on it...

[Placebo 29]

When I mentioned kindergarten I'm referring to the apparent need some posters have had in this thread to pick apart every comment someone is making and refute it to get the last word/upper hand or whatever, certainly nothing against the actual topic (if everyone was to get back to that).

I believe Ohara has mentioned that AI is something being worked on for 1.02 so hopefully this is something being addressed, also I believe it's been mentioned perhaps by Ohara again that AI "eyesight" is being addressed through clutter and such.

[bloodbomb 12]

Nice, thanks man.

[TLove 10]

I could remember the days when people could discuss topics without reverting to kindergarten tactics, please go back to being mature posters, else infractions will be handed out.

After reading this entire thread I've come to a very plausible explanation when it comes to AI in video games:

Unless they are zombies all AI are freaking retarded.

I love how people who play L4D say the AI is 'So great'

they're zombies. Zombies are naturally stupid. making it easy AI.

I challenge you to name three decent games with great AI.

Edited June 18, 2009 by TLove
Peanut butta jelly time

[Wildgoose 1]

After reading this entire thread I've come to a very plausible explanation when it comes to AI in video games:

Unless they are zombies all AI are freaking retarded.

I love how people who play L4D say the AI is 'So great'

they're zombies. Zombies are naturally stupid. making it easy AI.

I challenge you to name three decent games with great AI.

erm.:confused:.1.Operation Flashpoint 2.ArmA 3. ArmA II

Whatever anyone says about Ai in games, they just got to look at them in this series of games. Simply the best Ai anywhere.

[TLove 10]

erm.:confused:.1.Operation Flashpoint 2.ArmA 3. ArmA II

Whatever anyone says about Ai in games, they just got to look at them in this series of games. Simply the best Ai anywhere.

I totally disagree, with you're choice of games,

Until they the AI are smart enough to bake me cookies on their own my judgment towards them will stay the same. :)

[dmarkwick 261]

After reading this entire thread I've come to a very plausible explanation when it comes to AI in video games:

Unless they are zombies all AI are freaking retarded.

I love how people who play L4D say the AI is 'So great'

they're zombies. Zombies are naturally stupid. making it easy AI.

I challenge you to name three decent games with great AI.

Until they the AI are smart enough to bake me cookies on their own my judgment towards them will stay the same.

AI always has to be seen in context. I haven't played L4D but if it has great zombie AI then it has great AI. Suitable for the task.

But, by any stretch of measurement using ability to make cookies is a rather strange measure for an infantry AI :)

Tea, maybe ;)

[lampuiho 10]

i stayed in the forest; I was just running between the trees. with each running i scoped at everywhere. without seeing anyone, I moved on. Then I got shot behind a tree while searching for enemy behind a tree. I didn't even fire a shot and couldn't spot any enemy in my sight.

[cartier90 0]

AI in Rainbow Six Raven Shield was fantastic, it was CQB though. Will future patches increase AI in CQB environments ?, they could react faster at times.

[walker 0]

Hi lampuiho

If you are on your own in ArmA things are bad.

Rambo on your own and your dead-meat.

If you know the enemy are about CRAWL! Pop your head up from behind cover for a two second look. MOVE!

What weapon have you got?

What range is it most effective at? If you have a sniper rifle and it is less than 50m draw your pistol or throw nades and run away run way and live to fight another day.

CHOSE YOUR GROUND.

Your weapon can dictate this:

If it is a sniper rifle get out to its maximum range, make it count. A big open field overlooked by a ridge you can use for cover and to move behind to change positions after each shot is best. It also makes bugging out easier.

If it is an MG you need to be on their flank crossing their T, so you minimise how much you have to traverse to get the next target. 3 round bursts. If they are all in a row start with the nearest any rounds that pass them will hit those behind. I have killed 12 AI in a row like this without them getting a shot near me.

For an SMG its urban weapon use it in the houses.

For an assault rifle and as a general tactic, best of all is to find a reverse slope and draw them in.

Try to find one with a secure flank, that is one less thing to worry about, the sea makes a lovely secure flank, unless there are boats about, then it becomes really insecure.

Pick the enemy off as they skyline them selves, that is the moment when they do not know what is in front of them, so Kill them when they are stupid.

When they start to overwhelm you.

Use everything you have. Satchels just over the ridge line, you did remember to place them didn't you? Grenades over the ridge work too. If you have smoke pop it and run for your next chosen ground, you did remember to select a bug out route in cover and concealment and a second reverse slope didn't you? 200 M back 100m Plus to the side of your line of retreat.

Repeat until you run out of ammo or they are all dead.

Kind regards walker

Edited July 12, 2009 by walker

[Fishercat 10]

Perhaps the AI isn't cheating but are shooting at sounds. I know when deer hunting you hear before see often. Just a thought.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I've been nailed by assault rifle fire from sniper distance after firing only one shot. Yeah, when they DO respond, their response can ridiculously swift and accurate, especially with AK's.

Definitely needs tweaking.

The A.I. also needs to be more aware of sound events. If there's a bullet impact next to them, they need to look at it, even if only briefly. (You don't want the occasional "staring at a bullet hold in the wall" response of Rogue Spear's A.I.) If an explosion goes off, they need to at least flinch.

[acrh2 0]

My experience:

AI responds adequately with respect to how this game should be played.

Having said that, the visibility problems make the AI overpowering at times. You cannot see them, yet they can take a little break, set up their shots, and annihilate you.

This doesn't feel right.

If you cannot see them on a pc with a mouse every time, they shouldn't be able to see you.

[KeyCat 131]

My experience:

AI responds adequately with respect to how this game should be played.

IMO the AI currently have issues that needs to be looked into. This sim/game can be enjoyed in many different ways and thats what makes things somewhat problematic for the devs when it comes to the AI I guess.

What's "right" for you may not be right for someone else and vice versa and IMO there are no "right" or "wrong" way, it's all up to personal preferences...

Some people wants to play all-out-Fulda-Gap-WWIII-style-wars, some wants to do RL sniping missions, others wants to perform stealth SF missions in rescue a hostage scenario, some wants their focus on air/heli/armour warfare and some wants something in between all of above (hope you get my point)!

The only way to satisfy all above is to have the AI as "human like" as possible without obviously "cheating" but also keeping the required CPU cycles etc. within bounds, I guess that it is much easier said than done!

/KC

Edited July 12, 2009 by KeyCat

[sgt_hawkins 9]

Most of the time its the mission makers fault..when they are too lazy to set each skill level...default in the editor is halfway which is way to high.

[choC 10]

I just looked up this thread after being utterly annoyed with the AI while playing the armory mode. AFAIK I'm playing on recruit difficulty, yet somehow despite me spending an absolute age to walk (crouched) around dense tree cover, I was spotted by an enemy soldier 400m away who was prone out in the open.

Now I don't care what you say, a soldier walking crouched tree to tree nearly half a kilometer away shouldn't be spotted and picked off so easily. Not to mention after the first volley of shots (in which I was injured) I hit prone and rolled several times and crawled back behind a tree. The AI then started shooting the tree with deadly accuracy and bullet penetration finished me off.

This just isn't right, I can't get into the game if I'm being picked off left and right despite taking several measures to avoid being spotted.

On the other hand, there was one mission where I crawled within 50m of a soldier manning an MG on a humvee and shot him. Now what's surprising was, there was another soldier literally 5 meters on the other side of the humvee on an MG emplacement which I didn't spot, but approached from the rear (running this time). He didn't even turn around, let alone shoot me; so I shot him in the back of the head from 20m away.

What's going on?!

[S7_Mega 10]

I understand the AI has it's limitations. The Arma vets can attest to how utterly stupid the "AI" was back then. Arma II is greatly improved. The complaints on both sides show the limitations of programing an enemy as intelligent as a human. It's very tough to do.

I personally don't have a real problem with the AI. Sometimes they are pretty slow, as in the MG placement stated above. And being picked off at 400m after a long stealthy appreach using cover plain sucks.

Play some MP and believe it or not you will encounter similar human responses. I was coming through the woods on a Hold map. Thought I was using the trees pretty effectively. Then I heard a Barret fire once froma resonable distance away. The second time I heard a shot ring out I was waiting to respawn.

Same map, I was tucked in on the reverse slope of a hill. Two human playes passed me within 20m and didn't notice me. They were shot in the back.

The AI is not perfect but it's trmendously improved. BI is proud of their achievments and I assure you they continually try to improve this aspect of the game.

Go play some MP. If the AI isn't up to your standards I assure you playing against real people is alot more rewarding.

Edited July 17, 2009 by S7_Mega