Windage and bullet weight

[kt187 10]

Now I read that allegedly Arma2 will have realistic bullet trajectory, well I've also been reading people seem to think Arma1 had realistic trajectories also, and I've heard Redochetra does as well. The only realistic thing about Arma was the bullet's bouncing of ground and the hit sounds of the Bullets thats it. I tried to hit a target with the 50.cal 1800 yards a way and guess what the bullet never traveled more 600 yards, but the dragnove could reach out to 1400 yards .....no Arma was so far from real with bullets.

Now they got their act to gother allegedly, and It does look this way, If BI, you want to make a realistic simulator, you have to start with the basics, the bullets, back in the mid 90's a game called Delta Force 2 came out and they had windage and elvation equations for their weapons, the result was the Wanna be snipers were weed'ed out. Deer hunter two you could sight in your rifle and so did all of the hunter games until Cablea made them arcade like where the animal is just there.

One more thing I am tired of being killed by an Ak-47 round hitting me in my BulletProof vest which are Designed to stop an AK round also I am tired of being hit in the helmet and dying, oh yeah 9 mm rounds killing you from over 100 yards a way, seeing how in a psitol they bounce off people at 75 yards.

Some suggestions, helmet hit get dizzied fall over and helmet falls off, chest hits let the vest take a few, 9 mm is a pea shooter make it that way. Simple, simple, its been done in the past, it can definatly be done today.

I know what you guys want and its exactly what we want realism to max, and gore. Dont be afraid of scaring off potentional customers, This should be a Work of Art, not a commodity.

[mr.g-c 6]

I hope this too, also that the Muzzle velocity is not set anymore by the Magazine-class, but rather by the ammo itself, multiplied with some factor based on the barrel length. It was very odd to see in Arma1, that M4 has the same ballistics/range/damage at distance X, like the M16 has.

[kt187 10]

I really hope so, the screen shots, the going up against their old partners, Codemaster, makes me think they are passionate. I really hope hes not talking out of his neck but, when you take the time to put in wildlife and change it from an Island to coastal and even but side adventures ,such as searching for Bigfoot, and the detail looks really really good.

I've been disaponted by so many games, failing to improve, Arma was one of them. But this one does look different and I am buy it and OFP2.

[Pirate. 0]

Good points kt178! +++

The windage is probably too much realism for most players, but bullet drop and damage decrease over range is very important.

[celery 8]

Windage isn't a big thing for players to deal with since it's a very small deviation for normal engagement ranges. I mean, even Call of Duty 4 had it and everyone thought that the sniping part was awesome.

[kt187 10]

Windage isn't a big thing for players to deal with since it's a very small deviation for normal engagement ranges. I mean, even Call of Duty 4 had it and everyone thought that the sniping part was awesome.

That was a single mission, and that was way off too, it was scripted to hit the guy in the arm. I am talking a free bullet system based on real bullet trajectories, its been done before in games. It will reduce the number instant snipers.

[celery 8]

That was a single mission, and that was way off too, it was scripted to hit the guy in the arm. I am talking a free bullet system based on real bullet trajectories, its been done before in games. It will reduce the number instant snipers.

That wasn't my point. Realism can be cool even if it's as fake as it gets and I doubt that anyone would complain about wind affecting bullet trajectories in a sim-like game.

[kt187 10]

Yeah I get you, your saying it wont drive way people if its in there because of the nature of the game. Ok I gotch ya. In fact since it hasn't been done in a LOOOOONG time it might spark alot of Interest.

[dmakatra 1]

Good points kt178! +++

The windage is probably too much realism for most players, but bullet drop and damage decrease over range is very important.

That's already in, no?

[craig3000 10]

Good points kt178! +++

The windage is probably too much realism for most players, but bullet drop and damage decrease over range is very important.

I agree on bullet drop and damage decrease

Windage hard to say would have to play it for myself, I guess it would be good and could eliminate snipers all together depending on conditions but it would probably add too much difficulty to the game

[NeMeSiS 11]

That wasn't my point. Realism can be cool even if it's as fake as it gets and I doubt that anyone would complain about wind affecting bullet trajectories in a sim-like game.

I thought that that part was the most (And only) frustrating thing of the whole CoD4 SP. :D

I wouldnt mind wind, but IMO you might as well save those CPU cycles for something else.

[Wolfrug 0]

Not this again.

Read Changing bullet speed at OFPEC, in particular Tyger's posts, and try out Worldeater's example, and THEN come whining about ArmA's bullet drop being unrealistic.

If you want more graphs, you can use Kronzky's Portable Target Range and compare that to whatever ballistic information is available to you and see how it all checks out.

AFAIK, default BIS-ArmA ballistics are pretty damned accurate.

Also: speed affects damage.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[hoak 0]

Windage isn't a big thing for players to deal with since it's a very small deviation for normal engagement ranges. I mean, even Call of Duty 4 had it and everyone thought that the sniping part was awesome.

Your post took me aback too Celery -- sure that's true in COD4 which is no more 'realistic' then Counter-Srike, or Quake 3 Arena sans a fair realism paint job -- and the mean range of engagement in that game and games like it is close for pistol ammunition weapons...

But BI games, and sims like VBS and VBS2 offer realistic ranges of engagement -- and in the real world compensating for wind and ballistics would be a very real part of marksmanship at these ranges.

I'd very much like to see the challenge and skills required of a Sniper portrayed more realistically in games, as there's very, very little that's realistic about Sniper portrayal in any games -- just 'taking the shot' requires an enormous amount of preparation, not to mention practice and skill, that few appreciate, and that no currently existing games implement as realistic 'virtual' to-scale features.

In most games where draw distance is limited, sniper weapons that require no adjustment for range or wind -- giving the fake/virtual weapon a ridiculous advantage that requires very little skill beyond simple motor coordination which trivializes what a real Sniper does, and has sadly justly earned the role a bad reputation in games...

The typical means of 'nerfing' role and sniping weapons to give it some concept of 'game balance' with ridiculous scope bob is great for Counter-Strike, but just trivializes the role even more with fantasy-arcade BS and reduces virtual sniping marksmanship to an eye-hand coordination trick that any twit with a lot of spare time can master...

:butbut:

[max power 21]

I'm wondering if the OP is confusing the utility of the scopes with the trajectory of the bullets. Saying that the .50 cal will only travel 600 yards is totally wrong. For a lack of elevation controls on the scope, one has to elevate the barrel.

[Nihilistix 0]

Just fyi, helmets wont stop a round, even from a pistol unless the pistol is fired from a great distance. They are designed and worn for protection against secondary projectiles like shrapnel but no a direct hit from a bullet. I believe its similar for vests except the vests can stop lower velocity rounds from pistols but not from an ak.

[Thrash 0]

I'd very much like to see the challenge and skills required of a Sniper portrayed more realistically in games, as there's very, very little that's realistic about Sniper portrayal in any games -- just 'taking the shot' requires an enormous amount of preparation, not to mention practice and skill, that few appreciate, and that no currently existing games implement as realistic 'virtual' to-scale features.

So does piloting an aircraft, driving a tank etc etc.

Remember, they cant simulate everything perfectly, but put they can simulate everything to a point at which their resources allow. If you want it to be more realistic, there's nobody stopping you creating an addon which varies the bullet trajectory based on wind speed.

[koroush47 10]

So does piloting an aircraft, driving a tank etc etc.

Remember, they cant simulate everything perfectly, but put they can simulate everything to a point at which their resources allow. If you want it to be more realistic, there's nobody stopping you creating an addon which varies the bullet trajectory based on wind speed.

Or you can join the army/marines.

[dreday 1]

Just fyi, helmets wont stop a round, even from a pistol unless the pistol is fired from a great distance. They are designed and worn for protection against secondary projectiles like shrapnel but no a direct hit from a bullet. I believe its similar for vests except the vests can stop lower velocity rounds from pistols but not from an ak.

It's not 1960s any more... Most modern combat helments are designed to stop 9mm pistol rounds from 50 meters and even less, also most combat vests are equiped with blistic plates that will stop the ak rounds (at least from the front).

Peace,

DreDay

[sparks50 0]

Dreday: did you even read hes post?

But yes, Arma lacks a proper Armour/bullet penetration simulation.

Helmets are mainly worn to protect the head region from shrapnel etc. A battlefield is after all a dangerous place, and impacts to the head can be lethal.

[hoak 0]

So does piloting an aircraft, driving a tank etc etc.

Remember, they cant simulate everything perfectly, but put they can simulate everything to a point at which their resources allow. If you want it to be more realistic, there's nobody stopping you creating an addon which varies the bullet trajectory based on wind speed.

Obviously, and I haven't suggested 'everything' just a more realistic implementation of what has been implmented that's more to-scale with other features of the game. And I don't need to create an addon, it's already been done -- it's just that in the default, which is what most will play, game-play will be abused by arcade-fantasy sniping...

Or you can join the army/marines.

This is exactly the sort of Troll smart-ass remark that was raised nearly a decade ago when I suggested ironsights would be nice move to realism in some games that aimed for more realism, and the reaction to my Ironsights FAQ by many. It's pretty obvious you'd be the one that would benefit from more 'hands on' experience with firearms, that might give you more apprciation for the discussion -- I have plenty...

:rolleyes:

Edited May 19, 2009 by Hoak

[kt187 10]

I dont want to waste my time making a "Mod" for a "Allegedly realisitc game that should have it already. Amra1 had no realism expect the bullet skid on the ground.

The helmets today are designe to stop .30 cal rounds such as Ak-47 and they do, all the time, theres a video on youtube a soldier gets hit in the temple part of helmet after the battle his friend says hey you got shot and he took his helmet off and the side of his head looked like a swarm of bee's had stung it.

Just saying its not hard to make a sighting for a sniper rifle in a game, its been done but forgotten for the 13 year olds and I want run and gun crowed and any one can be a sniper for choosing the class. Games should be about learning , in this case how to snipe some one, or take cover in a battle and work as a unit, what did I learn from COD4 that if you die and get the maryerdom you can kill a guy with grenade yay. Auto aim ..........OFP/Arma2 should have this I will be disapointed but I am probably still going to like the game.

one more thing not all bullets travel the same speed depends on barrel length powder distance etc.... but again Delta Force 2 had it so why cant this game. All I am saying.

Edited May 19, 2009 by kt187

[CameronMcDonald 146]

The helmets today are designe to stop .30 cal rounds such as Ak-47 and they do, all the time, theres a video on youtube a soldier gets hit in the temple part of helmet after the battle his friend says hey you got shot and he took his helmet off and the side of his head looked like a swarm of bee's had stung it.

Expecting a helmet to stop an AK round is a very, very bad tactical misjudgement.

[kt187 10]

Not this again.

Read Changing bullet speed at OFPEC, in particular Tyger's posts, and try out Worldeater's example, and THEN come whining about ArmA's bullet drop being unrealistic.

If you want more graphs, you can use Kronzky's Portable Target Range and compare that to whatever ballistic information is available to you and see how it all checks out.

AFAIK, default BIS-ArmA ballistics are pretty damned accurate.

Also: speed affects damage.

Regards,

Wolfrug

I looked at the graph and it say's an m24 only shoots 550 yards, I understand most people who play shooting games have probably never fired a gun. m24 can reach out to 1200 yards custom loads maybe 1500.

Again I made a range just like this guys and used .50 and Dragnov, the dragnove went 1400 and the .50 only went 600, again BI said they just flung the game togther, so .

[maddogx 13]

@kt187

Considering the possible size of battles in ArmA(2) and the resulting huge number of bullets potentially flying around at any given time, you have to accept a certain simplification in the simulation of ballistics. If you tried to calculate accurate real-world ballistics and windage for every bullet on the battlefield you'd need a lot more processing power than the average desktop computer can provide. Hence the approximation.

This topic has been brought up time and again in the ArmA1 forums and at one point I'm pretty sure a dev actually commented that wind affecting bullets would have been much too CPU-costly for such a small impact it would have on the game. So they didn't implement it.

[celery 8]

I looked at the graph and it say's an m24 only shoots 550 yards, I understand most people who play shooting games have probably never fired a gun. m24 can reach out to 1200 yards custom loads maybe 1500.

Again I made a range just like this guys and used .50 and Dragnov, the dragnove went 1400 and the .50 only went 600, again BI said they just flung the game togther, so .

Have you thought about the possibility that the graph is for rounds that were shot sights leveled to horizon, letting the bullet drop as it flies? If you want to shoot farther, you have to raise the gun.

Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LfEDVtyNwo