ARMA 2 and aircraft

[Taconic 0]

My take:

Arma's flight modeling is better than OFP's.

However, it's still far below par. I have a full CH setup for flight sims (CH Fighterstick, CH throttle, CH rudder pedals) and I don't bother with them at all in OFP/Arma because, frankly, keyboard/mouse control works better.

I would love to see the flight models in Arma approach what you see in DCS or Il-2, but the simple fact of the matter is that level of fidelity would turn off 90% of BIS' potential customers, cost a lot of money to implement, and generally be lost on people because few people have the hardware to actually take advantage of something like that.

I can dream, though...

But I can completely forgive BIS on this point because OFP/Arma are about ground combat. As far as I'm concerned, the ability to fly the aircraft is just a little bonus tossed in. If I want a flight sim, I look elsewhere.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

You can use the pedals for gradual lean though, I've heard but not tested myself yet.

[IronRaph2 10]

In my opinion, a better and of course harder flight model could be a very nice feature for multiplayer... Not something like in X-Plane or IL2 or Black Shark but something such as in Lock on 1 or Flight Simulator.

For me, a player should specialised his skills in a defined role. Snipers are snipers, officers are officers and pilots are pilots!

The flight model is so bad that anybody can take a chopper and try to use it in the hope to land safely!

As a result everybody try to fly a chopper in every circumstances and finally most of the time every passengers get killed.

If flying a chopper is more difficult, somebody who hasn't got any skill for that will just think a little bit more and find an other way! Personally I am a very very bad sniper or officer ... I just don't choose theses roles!

In a multiplayer environment it could be a good way to balance the roles of each player...

Something that is really disappointing me is that somebody who has never tried to fly will perform far better than somebody how try to fly like in the real life. The helicopter fly model has some really strange behaviour and if you try to apply any flying logic... you will crash! The plane is even better... Stalls are hum... and the speed evolution is just totally wrong!

To conclude some a very easy to implement idea:

===============================

Just one small point... Why the throttle/air brakes are on the same stick!!! Why not having an option? This way to manage the throttle is a crap! A plane isn't a car! Thanks to this throttle/air brake association I stall all the time and it's very frustrating! Just changing this will increase the plane flight model :D

That's my opinion ;) I hope it could help...

[Amuro 10]

I'm currently using my SaiTek Cyborg X (with the throttle disabled - reason personal hehe).

From one thing to another...

I find it very hard to fly airplanes (like the F35 in the Bootcamp) simply because there's no friggin HUD???

I've got TrackIR 4 so it makes my life a lot easier but I still have to "guess" where the plane is actually heading (AoA-indicator?) and make an estimate of where the "center" of the "cockpit" is when I try to fly through the "rings" in the Bootcamp.

I'm quite surprised since I'm almost certain I've seen a hud in videos of the game previously.

Anyone know what might be wrong or if there is no HUD?

Thanks in advance.

In real life, the F-35 is the first aircraft that actually does not have a HUD. It uses a HMDS that isn't modelled in ArmA 2.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Which is? And no, google wasn't very helpful.

Edit: Oh never mind. I think I got the letters in the wrong order, lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_mounted_display

[Supah 0]

ArmA2 still has the same throttle setup for planes meaning idle opens your airbrakes. I do believe it is easier to controll your speed with a joystick that has a throttle axis. Using a joystick makes for some sweet low level helicopter flying!

[Lavandel 0]

There is Hud, it is just very light and hard to see. AOA indicator is like its name indicating the angle of attack, i think what you mean is the FPM Flight Path Marker

Thanks for the reply but can you show me how I enable it because I can quite frankly not find it anywhere?

In real life, the F-35 is the first aircraft that actually does not have a HUD. It uses a HMDS that isn't modelled in ArmA 2.

Don't be a smart-a$$ please, do you even know what "HMDS" stands for?

I bet it stands for Helmet Mounted (or Multi) Display System which of course would replace a "standard" HUD (which for your information stands for Heads Up Display). In which case it would simply be a simple thing to add as a 2d-image on the screen.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Lavandel
Didn't check CarlGustaffa's link before I replied but I bet you didn't either, Amuro.

[Amuro 10]

Thanks for the reply but can you show me how I enable it because I can quite frankly not find it anywhere?

Don't be a smart-a$$ please, do you even know what "HMDS" stands for?

I bet it stands for Helmet Mounted (or Multi) Display System which of course would replace a "standard" HUD (which for your information stands for Heads Up Display). In which case it would simply be a simple thing to add as a 2d-image on the screen.

Oh gimme a friggin' break! Don't be a smartass YOURSELF please! If I didn't know what all those acronyms stand for I wouldn't be here. Now, you asked why the F-35 in game had no HUD, and I was simply explaining to you, that the fact it doesn't have one is what it's really supposed to be. The other aircrafts in the game all have HUDs but they aren't functional.

Yes, the HMDS can be modded in, but it's not just simply adding a static 2D-image to the screen if you want it functional. It has to follow your head movement/view change, and correctly show realtime nav data, pitch ladder, FPM, etc.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Amuro

[Bellum 10]

So does this mean that you can use Track-IR as a HMDS in the F-35 and aim with your head?

[Amuro 10]

So does this mean that you can use Track-IR as a HMDS in the F-35 and aim with your head?

You mean like the IHADSS (Integrated Helmet And Display Sight System) on the Apache? The F-35 use a different system though. You should be able to track and desginate targets easily but not steering the aircraft.

Check out this article:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/First-Production-HMDS-Orders-for-F-35-Pilots-05549/

VSI's site:

http://www.vsi-hmcs.com/pages_hmcs/03a_f35day.html

Edited June 26, 2009 by Amuro

[Supah 0]

As a private pilot and a long time flight sim pilot I think a gigantic leap in flyability of fixed wing aircraft in ArmA2 could be achieved if the throttle setup was changed. It is now way to easy to stall your aircraft due to idle being a mode that also slows you down via braking. If it was changed for fixed wing aircraft that throttle at 0% would mean just that and the airbrakes (if even present, lots of prop planes dont even have them) could be mapped to another key that would help gigantically. I don't want a super accurate flight model, as long as it is pleasant to fly and certain basic parameters as max speed and weapon range / power are ok I am more then satisfied. Give me a well handling A-1 Skyraider in ArmA2 and I will never look back ;)

[kremator 1065]

Dont think there is much wrong with the flight model or throttle. As long as you know that airspeed will bleed on turns then you compensate for it. Never had a problem flying any of the aircraft in A2 and only the original A10 in A1 was problematic.

In summary - fine as is.

[arma2mods 10]

What I have been repeating over years is different game play mod to player choice by options. Make it customizable and do not try to impress all whit one build in game play mod. Aircraft should be easily flyable tho those who like just go all around and DCS freaks would get the same expirience than in B S whit as authentic FS.

[Supah 0]

Dont think there is much wrong with the flight model or throttle. As long as you know that airspeed will bleed on turns then you compensate for it. Never had a problem flying any of the aircraft in A2 and only the original A10 in A1 was problematic.

In summary - fine as is.

Well I do think the throttle would be better if the airbrake was moved to another key and a larger range of motion given to the throttle, this would give it more values in between all and nothing. It would make the flying experience a lot nicer.

[Baff1 0]

I can't get my mates to play flying games without proper throttles.

[Cptkanito 10]

I have the Saitek X52 Flight Control System. I'm trying to use it for helicopter and planes but i seem to have a rudder problem. It doesn't respond like it should be and most of the time my chopper or plane is jerking from left to right all the time. Do you joystick guys have the same problem. If not, maybe i didn't assign my controls to the right axis.

rudder is left pedal and right pedal in controls, am i correct?

i noticed turn left and turn right are set for my mouse, but whats the difference with bank left and bank right?(I'm using this last one for turning with my joystick)

any info is much appreciated:)

I have exactly the same problem, think I its an ARMA 2 bug, many people are getting it as well at high speeds in fixed wing. Its not so much of a problrm in rotary wing. With regards to the Pedal and Turn, i'm not sure. Pedal Left/Right i know is rudder and turn left/right i think is a reduced roll rate but i haven't tested it fully.

[Chumba 10]

Something everyone needs to realise: the "collective" control in OFP behaves COMPLETELY differently when using a Joystick throttle slider (or I guess any of the analogue axes mapped to collective - tho logically you'd generally be using throttle slider for it) compared to using the keyboard.

In short, using an analogue control results in proper "collective" type control - whereas the keyboard controls simply increase or decrease your height. The two are completely different and explain why so many people bag out OFP helicopter FM as being rubbish - IF YOU FLY OFP WITH KEYBOARD / MOUSE YOU ARE N-O-T EXPERIENCING THE PROPER FLIGHT MODEL!!!.

I use the keyboard controls as an "Altitude Hold Autopilot" - ie. I'll get airborn, set my airspeed and course then let go of the throttle slider and "tap" my Left Shift - this results in the height above ground staying constant so all I have to do is nudge the stick forward from time to time to keep the airspeed from dwindling. When I'm ready to fly again I jiggle the throttle slider and presto I have to be back on the job to keep it all flying right.

The "proper" FM in OFP actually works pretty much exactly the same as the ARMA FM except the OFP FM has much better tailrotor authority and collective response and effect (by effect I mean the tendency of a helicopter to lose lift as the nose is pitched more down and vice versa). ARMA seems to give more direct control of maximum pitch and roll angles - OFP limits those.

IMO the "proper" OFP helicopter FM is much more realistic - it's certainly much better to fly - the ARMA helicopter FM drives me nuts because the tailrotor effect and collective response etc. just don't feel right. I haven't tried ARMA2 yet - and just prey it's been improved.

EDIT (additional): OK, just played around with ARMA2 demo - initially I missed the option to map collective to joystick throttle slider - but it DOES have that option - and with that mapping ARMA2 flies basically the same as ARMA1 with possibly some slight improvement in tailrotor and collective.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Chumba
additional info - correction!!

[-ami- mofo 13]

Since this is my 1st post here I thought I'd better introduce myself and say hi to all the resident ppl in here :D

I'm a total newb at A2 and I've never even touched Arma or OPF like many of you guys have. Basically I've played games like CoD4 & 5 and the closest I've come to anything like A2 is BF2 which I'm sure some of you hardcore Arma guys have a bit of a chuckle at :rolleyes: But I've basically had enough of "bunny hopping war in a coke bottle" type games and want to enjoy something more "grown up" and with much more depth. So a few days ago after seeing a review on A2 I went and got it and now here I am.

I already have a couple of questions for you guys if you wouldn't mind...

I've been given a Saitek X52 joystick and have set it all up this arvo. It all works except for a couple of things.

Firstly flying with this joystick is pretty damn hard as the movements of the aircraft just aren't tight and controlled when I pitch & roll. They're all kind of a bit sloppy and feel a bit 'drunk' if you know what I mean.

So what I was wondering is is this what it's like to fly in A2? or is it the joystick input that isn't so crash hot?

And my other question is is that the rudder sometimes constantly see-saws a bit from left to right which can make trying to stay on a target pretty near impossible as you can imagine. I'm presuming this is a joystick fault but I haven't been able to fix it in the joystick controller settings.

Does anyone know how to possibly fix it?

Soz to start off with a couple of questions guys but any answers would sure be appreciated. ;)

[wooly-back-jack 10]

try unbinding left/right turn and just have rudder/pedal

[Placebo 29]

Since this is my 1st post here I thought I'd better introduce myself and say hi to all the resident ppl in here :D

We don't do "hello" threads here, so I merged your thread into an existing joystick/rudder/saitek type one, please search before posting :)

[MadCatChiken 10]

And my other question is is that the rudder sometimes constantly see-saws a bit from left to right which can make trying to stay on a target pretty near impossible as you can imagine. I'm presuming this is a joystick fault but I haven't been able to fix it in the joystick controller settings.

Does anyone know how to possibly fix it?

It does that for aswell, only when i start go over a certain speed, otherwise it doesn't do it.. i think it could just be a bug in the flight model I dunno.

[-ami- mofo 13]

try unbinding left/right turn and just have rudder/pedal

Already flying like that wooly, funny thing is is that I've unbound the pedals as well and it still does it. Weird.

It does that for aswell, only when i start go over a certain speed, otherwise it doesn't do it.. i think it could just be a bug in the flight model I dunno.

Yer since I tried unbinding the pedals and it still does it, it may be more of a game bug than a joystick input problem.

What joystick are you using? The X52 or a different one? I see someone else with an X52 has the same problem.

I may buy another joystick anyway as the X52 takes up too much room and the stick is all light and sloppy.

Edited July 27, 2009 by -AMI- MoFo

[Cptkanito 10]

Rudder problem is occuring for most people with joysticks, my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro does it to. Even unbinding all the ruder controls still makes it do it, very strange...

[MadCatChiken 10]

Already flying like that wooly, funny thing is is that I've unbound the pedals as well and it still does it. Weird.

Yer since I tried unbinding the pedals and it still does it, it may be more of a game bug than a joystick input problem.

What joystick are you using? The X52 or a different one? I see someone else with an X52 has the same problem.

I may buy another joystick anyway as the X52 takes up too much room and the stick is all light and sloppy.

I use a Thrustmaster T16000m.

[laserpanda 10]

Personally I still use my Sidewinder FFB2. 8 years old yet way ahead of that Logitech crap :)

Not cheap though, if you can find one.

I still have mine too, beats every other joystick I've tried.