Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad

[sic-disaster 311]

No date has been confirmed by TWI at this point, though i wouldnt count on Q1 if i were you.

Beta still hasnt started yet, so count on Q2 instead (hopefully).

Also, that picture is great, i love it. I like the idea of those soldiers creeping through a building, and hearing something on the other side of the wall yet not knowing who it is. Having an enemy so close to your position must be really unnerving :)

MKB42 isnt bothering me a lot, cause i doubt we will see it a lot. I think it is going to be a 'hero weapon', and according to TWI it is going to take quite a while to become a Hero, and there is a chance the amount of Hero's is going to be limited (at least during a match, which supposedly will have just 1 hero on each side).

Also, statistically speaking MKB42 COULD have been in Stalingrad as it has been manufactured in time to be there, but no records exist of it actually being handed out to soldiers, hence the debate.

But for the sake of weapon variety, i dont mind having it ingame at all. The STG44 would have been a different story though.

EDIT:

It is also important to note that the system requirements given by Steam are NOT confirmed by TWI, and thus are not an official indication of the system needed to play this game properly.

[ben_s 11]

Moreover, look at the facial expressions on the soldiers. I wonder if thats just pre-rendered or if its ingame.

The Mkb42 doesn't really bother me either. I think only the real diehard ww2 fanatics have too much of a care over whether it actually saw combat in stalingrad.

The heroes idea though, Not too sure how this will work. After like a certain ammount of time. Everyone will be heroes and it wont have the same effect. I hope TWI have done something to counter this.

[sic-disaster 311]

Facial expressions might be staged but also might not be staged, i'm not sure.

I dont know how difficult it would be to make the expression for the German in the front part of the 'cover-system animation', like when he presses his back against the wall a character will look the direction like he does right now.

I do know that RO had some great animations (MG reloading, or especially changing barrels looked awesome in third person), and also that for example when a soldier is looking through the ironsights he will close an eye when he raises his rifle to take a shot.

(For an example, look at the soldiers heads in this trailer, but especially around the 1:00 and 1:56 marks which has a close-up of a German firing his K98:

)

So they might do something similar for the cover system, would be awesome.

Also in this screenshot (http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/01/RO2_PR_Screenshot_GrainElevator_Interior_B.jpg) , notice the German on the right standing at the pillar. Notice that he is using his MKB42 left-handedly instead of a regular right-handed posture.

That might also be part of a cover-system animation, or perhaps an option players can tick on or off? I dont know, but i like it.

Also, tanks look wonderfully crowded inside: http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2011/01/loader.jpg

Normally i hate trying to hide in a tin can where i cant engage in some proper bayonet fights, but this is starting to look absolutely awesome even to me :P

[ben_s 11]

The loader in that pic is like looking at the gun and wondering what the hell to do with it... lol

But yes, It might be or might not be staged. I can't figure it out. Hmm, Left handed. Nice spot. I guess thats a part of the cover system. Perhaps they found it bugs with right handed when looking out to the left?

[sic-disaster 311]

I think it has more to do with the fact that when you lean to the left in a right-handed posture, you need to expose more (pretty much entire upper end) of your body to get the weapon past your cover and in a fireable position.

By changing to a left-handed posture, you can keep your body in cover better and only put your arms out to fire.

This is also why i 'trained' myself to prefer stacking a door on the left side, or when lying behind a tree in ArmA 2 i always crawl to the right side of the tree, putting my body behind the tree and the weapon out in a firing position.

It's something i find not many people take into account, so it's cool to see left-handed firing in RO:HOS.

[Smurf 12]

No date has been confirmed by TWI at this point, though i wouldnt count on Q1 if i were you.

Beta still hasnt started yet, so count on Q2 instead (hopefully).

I think I heard in that podcast they made a while ago with Ramm that the Beta isn´t going to be public anymore. Can you confirm that?

[Hans Ludwig 0]

I think I heard in that podcast they made a while ago with Ramm that the Beta isn´t going to be public anymore. Can you confirm that?

He said on their forums it was going to be mainly for the forum/clan veterans, friends and family. I believe it's the thread titled beta something. It was made about two months ago I believe.

However, he did make it sound like that could also change.

[boneboys 0]

The screen shot on the previous page is a posed in-game take.

Which basically means that the players become actors and the director takes a screeny.

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=693195&postcount=250

And concerning the "beta"...

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=692981&postcount=1

EDIT: And the forum goers become PS artists...

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=693738&postcount=56

Edited January 25, 2011 by BoneBoys

[sic-disaster 311]

For those who dont get the last picture in BoneBoys post, that guy that has been photoshopped in is one of the developers (who can be seen in many preview video's doing an explanation of the gameplay)

[ben_s 11]

hehe, Thats more than "just a dev", its the President of Tripwire Interactive. :)

[boneboys 0]

hehe, Thats more than "just a dev", its the President of Tripwire Interactive. :)

Here enters the VP...

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=694207&postcount=81

[Smurf 12]

A podcast was made with some old schoolers from RO, some haters and some other dudes, almost 3h, heres their impressions:

(Just ignore the parts in portuguese)

Podcast foi bem legal, quase 3 horas de duração.

A impressão do cara lá, que não jogava RO foi muito boa, ele deu bastante ênfase ao teamplay e o sistema de supressão que eles implementaram... parece que vai ser algo entre o RO e o DH.

Já um cara do TWB (um dos clans que mantém vários servidores do jogo) que também foi testar:

"Dropping note in from my laptop on my way home, so it will probably have spelling errors and will not be nearly as thorough as I will post; as I am hungry, and in a restaurant. That said... I have met my new mistress, and she is a thing of beauty to behold...

I think the best, short description I can give, is we had lunch before starting to play, by the time I even thought to check my watch it was 5:30 PM. And I didn't care.

Picture in your minds eye the things about the Original RO that you didn't like. Okay, now forget them. Then picture what you don't like about Black Ops or Medal of Honor -- delete them too.

The game is simply sublime, and my lunch is getting cold. So I need to go. I'll be home and online this evening, probably. Definitely online tomorrow afternoon, and drop a longer post with a real review, and be up on our TS to chat with any who care.

One last thing, THIS GAME IS AWESOME!"

Sobre a supressão:

Having played a bit yesterday with the devs, the suppression system is superb. I think it gets the desired effect. You know when you are being suppressed, and personally, I generally chose to duck or run, or duck and run, because you knew things were not going to go well from that point forward. But the effect is perfectly balanced, hard to explain (plus I don't think I can explain), but I don't think anyone will be dissapointed.

Sistema de unlocks vai funcionar do tipo: vc tem uma ppsh com pente tipo stick com 30 tiros, depois da unlock no drum mag com 71 tiros e depois no modo semi auto da arma.

As MGS fixas tem pontos específicos no mapa onde elas podem estar, mas nem sempre estarão lá.

Pelo visto vai atender bem as expectativas tanto dos novos quanto dos velhos jogadores de RO.

Link do Podcast: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/12482966

As I gather more thoughts I'll add to the posts...

Jim Miller and I had the opportunity, as you all know, to play test the new Red Orchestra game, Heroes of Stalingrad. Unfortunately Jim is a bit camera shy so all you can see in the photos is the back of his head. The visit with Tripwire went great our visit coincided with a visit from Slashandbash and Georgi, a reporter from a Russian gaming magazine.

In any case I know you all want to know my thoughts on the game. As I put in an earlier post, It is everything the Red Orchestra Ostfront (RO) wanted improved without taking away from the “realism†and yet fixes, at least in my opinion many of the issues I have found playing Call of Duty and Medal of Honor.

First and foremost, graphically the game is outstanding. I noticed while watching Ramm-Jaeger run through some parts of the game play for us, that the muzzle flashes varied. After chatting the the lead for that part of the game, I was right, they have made multiple animations for something as simple as a muzzle flash and then randomly assign the flash you get for each round. This kind of attention is everywhere in the game and when watching someone else play, is truly amazing. I admit to not noticing it while getting killed by among other, Ramm-Jaeger, Dr Guppy and Redeye. (Thanks guys for shooting me so much if you read this.) The game has a very realistic feel to it, probably from the background work by the team. Maps are real life scaled. It really became apparent when we played Fallen Fighters, the HOS version of Fallen Heroes from RO. At first I looked at the map and went, “Oh yeah, I got this.†I go running out to the square and the next thought was, “Holy cow, this is huge†Thought after that was a bullet from Redeye in my head... Lesson, don't stop unless you are behind something, preferably concrete, because bullets can get you through lighter materials, depending on many factors. Let me make one thing clear, the videos do not do the game justice, it is so far better than the videos show that you just can't really compare them.

Where do I start and where can I go on game play itself? Maybe I'll hit this in two parts, first what the RO players will look forward to and then for the CoD and MOH players.

For the RO players, HOS is a cure for the things that bothered me from RO. You can climb over things, and it doesn't take forever to do, very smooth, much like CoD. The PPSH does not kill the sky, you can actually hold it on target, give or take a bit. You can predict the muzzle sway, and it's not that bad in the first place, it moves with you breath, which you can control, or as Ramm-Jaeger put it, “You don't hold you breath and then suddenly turn into a meth addict.†Close enough may not count but it will sure do in a pinch – Suppression, a great effect that is hard to explain; but trust me -- you fire your weapon in the general area of the enemy and not only will he know it, he will prefer to be somewhere else. No one is going to stare down an MG and live. Personally, I preferred running when the suppression got to high, usually to somewhere safe, where Dr Guppy then shot me and I died slowly.

Which brings me to death, you don't necessary die immediately, and you may have a few alternatives, you might be able to bandage yourself up and keep fighting, or if you have your weapon and run into you attacker someplace nice, like a hall, blast him before you die. At least you know you went out fighting. It sounds a lot like last stand in CoD, but you only have a matter of seconds and even less or none if your attacker was smart enough to fill you with lead.

Finally for the RO side, there is a new concept of “Cover†in the game, as you approach virtually all doors or openings an little icon shows on the bottom of the screen alerting you to the ability to use the object for cover. A single tap of a key engages the cover, it can break it as well, but why when you can just walk away instead. The idea is ingeniously executed, once in “coverâ€, you can simply peek over the top, blind fire, or pop up and take aim. While taking aim, you can use you “crouch†key to duck temporarily. Aiming is easy, push you mouse where you want to go, want to slide across a window, but stay in cover, just move left or right. You can even aim down or around corners, but be aware, you expose yourself the farther you go; and then DrGuppy shoots you and you die slowly, again.

Thinking back I blew the one great chance for blind firing, I had Ramm-Jaeger and Redeye, my mortal enemies down a hall and I had some piece of furniture to hide behind. RO overtook what I could have done in HOS, and I pulled my head and gun up and killed them, only to be killed by someone else. Had I been thinking, I could have killed them both with blind fire, they had no where to go. SO there will be a little bit of a learning curve.

For the CoD and MoH players of the crowd, unless you are just diametrically opposed to World War II based shooters, this game is great. Spawn issues, not here. You can choose to spawn on your squad leader, but if he is under fire, you will spawn safely near him, but not in the action. You can also choose from other spawn points that may bring you into the action from a direction needed. One caveat in the Fire Fight mode (sort of a team death match), you tend to spawn right at the action to keep the fight going, I did get a quick spawn/die, as I spawned in an open doorway, but I saved a comrade from being killed by Redeye, so I think of it as a wash. But it only happened once, so I take that as an anomaly, and a good one at that.

Oddly in HOS you guns kill things, and do so quite efficiently. No more wasting a clip to kill someone. You hit him and he will know it, and in all likelihood die from it. Hip shooting is still hard, although I did get a guy in smoke with a bolt action rifle, pure luck I think, but heck it counts. However, shooting you PPSH as I mentioned above is controllable even on full auto. So with any minor skill you should be ably to whirl around corners and blaze people down. Oh and especially for Kingy, you can carry your MG34 and hip shoot it quite easily, not too accurately but good enough. Now brace it and that is a fine weapon.

On the subject of accuracy, oddly pistols don't kill people across maps, nor do SMGs. Strange that a weapon can have an actual accuracy, but if the hints were interpreted correctly, it is simply the accuracy, not the bullet itself that gives out. You might catch a stray which was not intended for you.

Game types are far more plentiful that in RO, there is even a “Sabotage†style map, where you only have one life, but if you cap the objective, everyone comes back and can continue the fight. There are the territory capture maps which sway back and forth from one side to the other, and there is a full campaign mode. I didn't really follow how it works, but in a very morale crushing Pyrrhic victory, we won a round and loss half our reinforcements ultimately causing our defeat for the campaign. Which is set in a series of fight chosen by the winning side from the last round and much like the board game risk, the object is to force the other side out of Stalingrad, or our of people to fight.

The game is truly amazing, I am certain my wife will hate it, as I already spend too much time playing games, and even in the 3.5 hours we played yesterday, time just stood still. It is a thoroughly engrossing and captivating game, once you get rolling especially in the campaign mode, you just want to keep fighting until you win.

For the love of god someone finally hits the nail on the head.

I was shown all the features and I consider those types of things learned additions to the game.

The whole concept of basic playability of the game was my focus.

Actually I played the game in the most hardcore way imaginable.

We have seen so many features in games and they are not new.

Although JG has put them together in a uncompromisingly unique way.

I was shown all the features beforehand by John and they all work flawlessly as you can also see in all his gameplay videos.

Finally playing the game for only 4 hours hardly gives you an opportunity to study and learn the features in this game. There was a war going on and my main concern was engaging with the mindset of being a valuable asset to the team.

As for scoping it only takes a moment to realize that this is a system to learn and appreciate over time.

Tanking is also a specialized experience that is more than a feature.That is why I referred to it as a game within a game.

Guns are not so elitist in this game that one cannot jump in and use them.Yet they also offer the gamer a long term experience to master them in all the different conditions one might find themselves in. Hardly enough time to explore them all in the different situations one would find themselves in.

When I refer to this game as a mature game I am trying to share the fact that it is created with an authenticity and depth created by deep thinking and offers the consumer to purchase a game that is an investment in entertainment that will have repeat playability for years to come.

As for those that had doubts about the look of the game and whether it can hold it's own next to recent releases using dx10 and dx11 this game is not a disappointment.At least in my mind. When you include lovingly crafted detail in structures and foliage and get a taste of the lighting applied you can equal some of the more recent releases that offer destructibility and every other widget. I think TWI has craftily put the effort where it brings the biggest bang for the buck. When you look at walls of buildinds you see bricks and mortar in relief and not a painted background type look.

Could I find areas of improvement for my own tastes and what I might perceive to be others tastes?

Of course I could .

But who am I to judge taste?

Could I talk about opportunities for this game to be even more inclusive to even more players ?

Of course I could.

But who am I to suggest who TWI should make a game to appeal to.

But I did offer some thoughts about that while I was there.Humbly.

In the end this game will appeal to some segment of the gaming population that is out there

I truthfully hope that segment is larger than I or TWI realizes.

In the end Quality should be preserved and appreciated in this current gaming climate where cookie cutter releases dominate the market.

And shouldn't that be the way things happen in all things.

Encourage quality and consume wisely.

Oh my goodness I can't predict your likes and dislikes but I would think that this game should appeal to many Battlefield players who don,t mind playing in WW2.

I found this game to be as accessible in many ways as Battlefield is to me.

But it approaches many things from a different sensibility.

I would go as far as to say that any Battlefield player that could not enter this game and play effectively in an afternoon is a sucky player like me.

When we hear that constant drone of "This isn't COD" and then I compare to Battlefield I pause for a moment.

Not to compare to Battlefield but Battlefield and RO are kindred spirits in some ways.

Of course let's not kid ourselves here. A Battlefield player may not like the sniping in RO unless they are after a deeper experience into realism. Like I said though the game is inviting enough to allow you to pick and choose when how what and where you choose to play. That is very important for me as a player. I could play BFBC2 as anything I wanted and save the things that were not in my current mindset for another time. Specifically choppers and in RO I would naturally be starting as infantry with a certain weapon that engaged me. Tanking also because I love the period pieces of machinery and can never get enough History Channel. While an Abrams is so accurate with it's computer controlled main gun it can hit a pie plate on the move at half a mile it is the MACHINERY that really gets me. Like loving locomotives from the first part of the century.

Yet I have to be able to bleed someone out occasionally to get my kill payoff.

For those that worry about tens of thousands of elite RO Super Uber Retro soldiers laying in wait for them. Well they just don't exist. Some are coming RO faithful so get your house in order. I will find that one thing I do really well and milk the blank out of it first.

Meh....it is them that have the worries. I will be slowly gaining skills over time and my kills on them will hurt far more than the reverse.

You guys here know my sense of humor The RO guys dont

[SD_BOB 10]

Couple of new vids from GDC 2011...

Part 1:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-11-red-orchestra/711635

Part 2:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gdc-11-red-orchestra/711637

[Baff1 0]

For me, this games intrest rides on it's co-op.

If it's a bot match... it will be fun for a little while.

If it's a squad based tac shooter.... it will be that game which I shall be playing over and over for many years.

They say they have improved things... let's see.

[SD_BOB 10]

The bots are there only for either practice or to take up some room in a server. This game is definatly PvP all the way.... Saying that the bots should be a real challenge in the coop mode if you wish to play that.

The fact is this game is going to be pretty much what you want it to be. It is also being tailored to a certain extent for competetive PvP gaming. Alot of features will make squad matches very accessible.

Dont take any real notice of the bots on those vids either, they are always set in super stupid mode when they show a demo. It was stated earlier that even having the AI on normal difficulty is a pain in the arse for demos as they just kill the player straight away unless he really concentrates, which obviously he cant do while showing the game off.

[Baff1 0]

If that's all it is, then I won't want to play for very long.

It'll take the place of Stars Wars BattleFront 2 or Enemy Territory on my LAN. You know, a filler game an hours knock around when everyone is too drunk to play anything complicated.

PvP is just half a game in my opinion. I am hoping for something more.

They haven't announced what their single and co-op play is going to be yet.

They have said it won't be a botmatch.

But talk is cheap!

And it was last time.

They also said it won't be a cutscene fest.

So I am hopeful for something non linear and squad based tac shootery. Which in my opinion is what appeals to the co-op crowd. (Or at least what appeals to me).

I am still hopefull that they are courting the co-op market.

There are lot of sales out their waiting for the first guy to release a competant tac shooter, and RO have already done 85% of the programming required. All they need is scripting to make missions using their existing maps... their existing weapons and GFX and sounds etc.

All that money is theirs for that taking if they have the will.

Co-op was a real big fail in the previous installment.

Not in any way worthwhile.

I hope they have learnt from their mistake.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Baff1

[ben_s 11]

Well, it has a practice mode as well as campaign mode, IIRC from the menu (you should be able to see it in the GDC video above). So i'll assume the campaign wont be just the same as the old practice mode.

But they've mostly showed off multiplayer, with bots. And not much Singleplayer. It's obvious they're still far from release, especially after only just annoucing they're about to enter a very early testing phase.

Personally, it looks like a much more streamlined and better game than ROOST was, but it still looks very much like the same core game.

[SD_BOB 10]

I agree there is still a long way to go in terms of finalising and testing.

Baff i understand where your coming from on the coop front, and i'm sure the coop campaign will be great fun. Last week the VP of Tripwire commented in an interview how the singleplayer was going to be designed with the emphesis on squad command and tactics, i.e. not the one man show most other games are.

Saying that, i really dont see HOS or RO in general as being targeted for coop mainly. I hope the coop elements are fun, but surely the longevity with the game lies in the PvP/Competetive & Mods. For pure coop ArmA is hands down the only choice i would make. But where ArmA can lack the PvP element, RO caters for this perfectly.

Each to their own and all that, obviously this is just my opinion.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Shadow.D. ^BOB^

[Daniel 0]

Agreed, PvP is what RO does best, and that's where they should focus their efforts. Any additional co-op will be a very nice bonus. Very much looking forward to this.

[Baff1 0]

Saying that, i really dont see HOS or RO in general as being targeted for coop mainly. I hope the coop elements are fun, but surely the longevity with the game lies in the PvP/Competetive & Mods. For pure coop ArmA is hands down the only choice i would make. But where ArmA can lack the PvP element, RO caters for this perfectly.

I found that the games I most enjoyed playing PvP on, were games that I also enjoyed co-op with.

For example, Hidden and Dangerous 2, Ghost Recon and Ravenshield.

And in my opinion, both the co-ops and the PvP were as good as any I have played.

In Ghost Recon for example, we would all play co-op until there were too many on the server to fit in a co-op game then we would switch it over to PvP.

So each day we would play both.

New content and mods etc were also available for co-op just as they were for PvP.

What makes a game replayable and long lasting is having a large playerbase. So if you get PvP only guys, the game won't be as long lasting as if you get PvP and Co-op guys.

If you deliberately choose only to appeal to half of the potential market of your software...

You are nerfing yourself.

Likewise I recognise that the core crowd from RO1, are all PvP only players since this is all the game supported.

I recognise that for the returning playerbase... those who spent any amount of time with the game, we are talking about a PvP only crowd.

I have no desire to ruin what it is they are looking for in a game. or to explain to them that they weren't having fun or could have better fun or any such silliness.

But that was a low budget title. This game can be more than that was. It can be a AAA title instead of something who's major rival in the market place was America's Army. A free game.

It doesn't have to make any compromises to PvP at all, to add co-op. Not a single one.

It's all cream.

Essentially, Ravenshield did it on the same game engine.

It isn't a lot of extra work.

They can do it, the question is are they wise enough to have worked out what it is co-op players are looking for in a gametype, or did they just slack off and hire someone to make a bot match for them.

I thinnk if you are going to add co-op and SP as a gametype, it pays to do it well. To make those aspects of the game selling points rather than after thoughts.

I hope they do.

This game really does have a whole lot of potential and a massive player pool to attract if they do a good job.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Baff1

[ben_s 11]

Co-op: Players can connect with their friends and battle AI in multiple game types including the Stalingrad Campaign, Skirmish Mode, and more.

source

There? :)

[Baff1 0]

Here's a more recent one for you.

singleplayer campaign question

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How will it be? With cutscenes and a story or just like multiplayer battles but with bots?

03-09-2011, 04:25 PM

Yoshiro

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neither. We aren't ready to talk about it yet. But more info on the single player will be coming in the near future.

So yeah, while it's clear there will at least be some kind of co-op which could easily turn out to be just a bot match....

There is also some hope that they are doing something more than that. (Or just overhyping their product of course).

Probably just wishful thinking on my part, I expect.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Baff1

[ben_s 11]

I don't think mod teams generally learn the technique of "hyping" a game. ;)

Though, it's been a while since TWI was just a mod team.

[Hans Ludwig 0]

Wow, that "suppression system" sucks. You don't actually get suppressed, but you can tell you are being suppressed by an indicator on the hud?

[SD_BOB 10]

You also get things like increased heart beat and desaturation of the screen. But i agree, it doesnt look like much.... Maybe i'm too used to playing Darkest Hour where the suppression is very good (if a little too much at times).