please some hand to hand combat or knifes

[oscar19681 0]

No matter what mod I'm currently playing (ACE), I always leave SLX's Melee.pbo in the addons folder just to ensure H/H is possible. Just yesterday my AI sniper dispatched of a wounded enemy with a knife, which made sense as it was so quiet no enemies were alerted and up until then the enemy was still giving our coordinates away to his mates.

hmm...hollywood much? Knife kill is pretty much NEVER silent. It's more likely to alarm everybody.

The victim will choke, scream from pain, release a lot of blood. it's a mess, and it's more effecient to just a hit a bullet in the head.

Just like the spetsnaz did during the estrade rescue situation in russia back in the years. It was close-combat, but they never used a knife, just bullet to the head with a silencer.

Really the trick to take someone out with a knife is not to cut there throat. It cutting the a blood vain running from the side of the neck to the shoulder. you bleed to death in less then 1 minute cutting of the blood supply to the brain and you wont have time to scream. This is what chris ryan wrote in one of his books about the stuff he learned with the sas

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Sorry but some years ago a fellow in the spanish parachute forces (BRIPAC) told me what is like to kill someone quick and silent. You go behind him then grap the mouth so he cant shout..next you slide the knife horizontally directly into the lung....then you twist the knife opening flesh, ribs and lung...the poor guy will suffocate in second without any chance to scream.

But jet most people know whats up with their ammo and pick enemy weapons when they are low...and when you are 1 clip left then you call you buddies to help because otherwise that last clip is not for keep on attacking but instead to retreat.

[LJF 0]

Depends, I mean, it's ArmA and it's new, so it would be clunky and odd, esp given the real virtuality engine. I'm on the fence with this.

[Baff1 0]

I'd love to see bayonets included.

All soldiers are deployed with this melee tool.

I'm not sure how good ArmA's colision detection is, but it shouldn't need any extra attack buttons.

I'd like to see the effects of physical collision mapped too. A soldier thrown to the ground or aim thrown off. Perhaps a soldier unable to raise his weapon when another body is too close (say under 1 foot away).

I also agree with LJF. This game lags too much for it to feel in any way fluid.

The reason we all play this game at engagement ranges of 500 metres is because the frame rates suck so bad making CQB too horrible to contemplate.

[oscar19681 0]

Sorry but some years ago a fellow in the spanish parachute forces (BRIPAC) told me what is like to kill someone quick and silent. You go behind him then grap the mouth so he cant shout..next you slide the knife horizontally directly into the lung....then you twist the knife opening flesh, ribs and lung...the poor guy will suffocate in second without any chance to scream.

But jet most people know whats up with their ammo and pick enemy weapons when they are low...and when you are 1 clip left then you call you buddies to help because otherwise that last clip is not for keep on attacking but instead to retreat.

Really that only happens in hollywood. What if the guy bites your hand?

[Pyronick 21]

Sorry but some years ago a fellow in the spanish parachute forces (BRIPAC) told me what is like to kill someone quick and silent. You go behind him then grap the mouth so he cant shout..next you slide the knife horizontally directly into the lung....then you twist the knife opening flesh, ribs and lung...the poor guy will suffocate in second without any chance to scream.

But jet most people know whats up with their ammo and pick enemy weapons when they are low...and when you are 1 clip left then you call you buddies to help because otherwise that last clip is not for keep on attacking but instead to retreat.

Really that only happens in hollywood. What if the guy bites your hand?

Use thick leather or rubber grip gloves? Some are so strong you can try to slit them with a Stanley knife without succes.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

No matter if the guy bites you...its the very last thing he is going to do. Anyway....try to put your hand over your mouth and see if you can bite it...you need quite a big mouth.

[Second 0]

Sure it needs medical treatment, but it's not instant killer. Human have two lungs last time i checked. Like in Oliver Stone's Platoon it was said: "You got hit to lung! Lucky bastard, your going home." At most victim falls to unconsciousness because of pain and shock.

If stabbing from behind and instantly killing victim you need to reach heart. And that gets very-very difficult feat to achieve when killer is half-paralyzed from horror himself. He probably ends up stabbing (still living and breathing) victim over and over again, piercing lung, guts, few times knife got deflected (even stucked) by ribs, spine, muscles etc. There are changes that victim even gets away from grasp of killer. You can't control victim very well by simply holding his mouth.

Veins in throat however are lethal, very much so.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Sure it needs medical treatment, but it's not instant killer. Human have two lungs last time i checked. Like in Oliver Stone's Platoon it was said: "You got hit to lung! Lucky bastard, your going home." At most victim falls to unconsciousness because of pain and shock.

If stabbing from behind and instantly killing victim you need to reach heart. And that gets very-very difficult feat to achieve when killer is half-paralyzed from horror himself. He probably ends up stabbing (still living and breathing) victim over and over again, piercing lung, guts, few times knife got deflected (even stucked) by ribs, spine, muscles etc. There are changes that victim even gets away from grasp of killer. You can't control victim very well by simply holding his mouth.

Veins in throat however are lethal, very much so.

if you twist a knife wich´s blade is some 20x6cm inside the lung I think that the guy will collapse for the blood flooding in them...yes we got 2 lungs and are conected. Each breath the blood will go deeper inside them...

[Second 0]

Lung stops to function and it collapses because of wound, yet another lung keeps on going. That is all the drama there is to know.

If wound is large enough then one might bleed to death... That takes aloooong time.

[NeMeSiS 11]

What is wrong with just hitting the guy with your weapon like the old 'strokegun'/'strokefist' weapons in OFP? From a gameplay point of view it wouldnt really matter anyway.

Still i would prefer bayonets, and the 'drop mainweapon and quickly change to sidearm' option would IMO be 100000 times more useful then a knife.

[-Total- 0]

I can see it now....

A mission fails because someone wants to be a badass and melee every AI or player he comes into contact with.

As a combat vet, shooting from a distance is preferred. When in close quarters, keep your weapon at the ready with someone to cover you.

The only "silent killers" out there are the special forces guys and even they will avoid killing because that means avoiding detection.

Real war isn't what you watch in the Hollywood movies or see in arcade games.

[Maddmatt 1]

Well this thread is slightly disturbing...

A basic ability to stab or hit a nearby enemy would be nice, just for those situations where you end up face-to-face with them.

Nothing too in-depth, there are better things to focus on. Just as a last resort for defence or close up fighting.

It doesn't need to bother with all the gruesome details being discussed here, this is ArmA not Manhunt

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Anyway my point stays the same...2 guys fighting with knifes wearing kevlars vest is a waste of time..

[Second 0]

Real war isn't what you watch in the Hollywood movies or see in arcade games.

And in real war you might come into situation where you need those melee skillz, be it killing someone silently and effectively, brawling with opponent to kill or capture him or something other. Is this important in ArmA2 given the volume how rarely such event occurs both in reality and in ArmA? Probably not, but so weren't karate move animations in ArmA... Still they are in.

Maddmatt: True that stabbing to lung thing went bit over, but i saw information which doesn't hold true. Better to have that thing sorted out than some of you guys fearing that your going to die next time you break one of your ribs and it pierces your lung

[oscar19681 0]

What is wrong with just hitting the guy with your weapon like the old 'strokegun'/'strokefist' weapons in OFP? From a gameplay point of view it wouldnt really matter anyway.

Still i would prefer bayonets, and the 'drop mainweapon and quickly change to sidearm' option would IMO be 100000 times more useful then a knife.

Surely you are seeing it the wrong way. What would be better drop main weapon and go to side arm? Or drop main weapon and go to sidearm and if nessesairy got to knife as last resort?

[celery 8]

What is wrong with just hitting the guy with your weapon like the old 'strokegun'/'strokefist' weapons in OFP? From a gameplay point of view it wouldnt really matter anyway.

Still i would prefer bayonets, and the 'drop mainweapon and quickly change to sidearm' option would IMO be 100000 times more useful then a knife.

Surely you are seeing it the wrong way. What would be better drop main weapon and go to side arm? Or drop main weapon and go to sidearm and if nessesairy got to knife as last resort?

Have you noticed that only officers have a sidearm to begin with?

[EricM 0]

Arma still has to be a game and have some creative licence with reality.

And you don't fight guys with kevlar armour all day long, and many non-regular troops don't have those (rebels, third world, pilots), and what about defending against animals (there will be dogs)?

And even if side arms are more efficient, what do you do when you don't have one OR it's also out of ammo, but you're not dead still?

You need a way to fight when out of ammo...

[NoRailgunner 0]

You go in circles.  

There must be specific animations for hand to hand combat or fighting with knives and of course AI should be able to use knives too. Did you see what happen with ArmA/OFP AI if you add pistols and 8 mags? Funny to watch AI (eg sniper, mg units) - switching weapons and attack with pistols.

[Wolfrug 0]

That the AI would need to use it and that the animations + scripting to make it happen would be too time consuming is so far the only actual argument -against- implementing hand-to-hand I've seen in this thread so far. After all, as can be seen in nearly all the design decisions made by BI, the AI is supposed to be able to do anything the player can (currently, in ArmA, the player can lean - which should be fixed by ArmA II).

So yes, that's a perfectly good argument, and I'm guessing that when we don't get our hand to hand implemented, that's the argument BIS would use if asked. No problems from me.

All I'm saying is, it'd be cool if implemented for players, and doubly cool if implemented (in a working fashion) for AI

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Deadfast 43]

...but so weren't karate move animations in ArmA... Still they are in.

There is just one karate animation and I'm sure it's more of a mo-cap test than an animation intended for serious use.

Having some hand-to-hand animations would require far more then one animation.

"Why can't I punch while kneeing???"

"Why does it takes so long to get up from prone while trying to punch???"

"Why there's just one punch???"

"Why can't I kick???"

"Why can't I punch while running???"

"Why can't I do a slide-kick???"

and so on and on...

[Second 0]

Basically rifle and handgun animation for standing and running is all that is needed. No need for other animations. club, knife or other might use handgun animation (do it so that is looks decent for them all). Basically you'd still use mostly rifle in melee, as it's pretty good for that porpuse and one probably would have rifle at his hand anyways.

If one whines that he can't do karate, let moderators ban him from forums. I can't shoot while standing on one leg or jumpping or raise my rifle over my head to spray-n-pray, so virtual karate-kids can live without ArmA2-karate.

AI is good point. And how melee-move would be done by player is another.

*Does character do melee-move automatically when opponent is less than one meter away and let rest of factors calculated decide who hits first and what is outcome of being hit. killed, knocked out of action, just knocked to ground but still in action etc

*like above but should player do melee move by fire-button

*Should player have seperate key issued to this from beyboard or mouse (probably is worst option because there are tons of actions more important than melee)

Ofcourse not putting it into game at all is one option... Which, in the end, probably is best.

[Michael_Wittman 0]

Ofcourse not putting it into game at all is one option... Which, in the end, probably is best.

Couldnt agree more

[oscar19681 0]

I really dont understand the hostility towards the whole idea. After all in real life hand to hand combat is something the usmc is trained in quite alot. So adding it to the game would only be simulating a usmc training for the team right? Some people seem to see this as a threat for some reason. I mean its not like some basic hand to hand , melee or a knife is gonna make this sim unrealistic? I mean those who think so should take a real good look at the usmc training program.

[Placebo 28]

Moving to the suggestions forum.