To ArmA Developpers: aiming system

[max power 21]

This change would require reanimation of all walking animations... either hand key or re-mocapping. I'd like to see a tighter system but I don't think we're going to see this happen.

[whisper 0]

completely cosmetic issue. Not worth the time or any penny.

It affects CQB, when clearing buildings it's hard to hit enemies while moving because it just sways so much.

This is not what the OP is about

[Andre 10]

.....

Edited January 31, 2013 by Andre
waste of time

[colligpip 0]

hu hu hu they keep talking about Butts hu huh huhuhuh

[Andre 10]

.....

Edited January 31, 2013 by Andre
waste of time

[[asa]oden 0]

I'm with you Andre but I can honestly not see why animations for 300 workhours need to be redone, it's merely the first person view when walking with weapon "up" (ironsight type) that needs remake.

As stated 254 times, the 3rd person view is ok (which "is" the animations).

Also, this is crucial when playing with "aim off" server settings as one pops up ironsight and starts to move.

[wipman 1]

Hi, im with Andre too; the silly actual "aiming" way in the ArmA sucks.

It really needs to be fixed to allow you to engage targets at +80m

with accuracy enough as for shot to kill. At least over flat surfaces;

which are pavemented roads, houses which are not filled with rubbish

and well cared terrain and public spaces (parks, crop fields and others)

this silly sad thing sure that could be fixed by BIS for the ArmA2 if

they want. Now we just have to prey a lot or we gonna swear much

more. Let's C ya

[DaSquade 0]

Wait, so if i understand it you want perfect stable animations so you have a perfect stable aim at all times (on slow walk)?

I have no military background what so ever...but i do have a riffle of +-3kg. It isn't a real riffle (lead pellets or how one calles it)...

Point is, only robots can hold a riffle perfectly alligned with its target. Even the slightest walk give a small sway.

Please proove me wrong.

Don't say you want aim like in most FPS where you have the feeling you are hoovering over the battlefield?

[Maddmatt 1]

So now the complaint is that the weapon sways too much while walking?

Try the ACE mod. Weapon sway while walking was reduced by modifying the animations. I guess this was the change you wanted?

[wipman 1]

Hi, no DaSquade, of course that i don't want a CS:S kind of feeling;

but i want to be able of walk (slowly, yes) aiming thru the sights and

still beeing able of shot to death at +80m (while i walk forward) if

im standing, i could put a good serie of agrupations on you, up to

600m until depleet the magazine; i've tested this with the worst AR

in the world, the cetme L, that weights 3.6Kg and gets rust with just

look at it. Anyway, with practicaly nothing of training, anyone, can

shot to kill to a target at 100m; if you can't... (in the real life) you're

a crippled. It's as easy as that, really. The vanila ArmA's standing

"aiming" way sucks and it don't have nothing in common with how

you aim thru the iron sights of an assult rifle. Let's C ya

*EDIT: Yes, that's the change i want (in the vanila's game).

[supergruntsb78 67]

in real life your weapon does move as you move only practise helps you reducing the movement, in arma the movement is indeed sometimes a little to much (especialy in CQB operations) so keeping it moving is real life simulation but reducing it is something different as it whould depend on your skill setting / rank / experience / branch of military (special forces shoot way better then normal infantry) and thus almost inpossible to implent in a GAME like ARMA

[Second 0]

Main problem is still surface types, and more likely lack of them by my point of view. Trying to keep target in sights (or in vicinity) in ArmA is pretty much like it could be in rather flat wilderness, it's not like character would move over asphalt, but it's not marsh either.

So in my mind issue of topic still drops to arguing of butt's sway. Or that should movement in terrain happen like it's done in 100% flat surface.

What Wipman is saying is by my undertstandment more about how weapon sway is done, it's hard to predict and hard to react. Sway probably is bit too random.

[max power 21]

I'd imagine that how much gear you're carrying has a bit to do with it too. Not the butt stock sliding, unless you have some slippery backpack straps on... but I mean the weapon jitter in general would be worse of you were loaded down and walking on anything but asphalt, I think. I'm not sure who the mocap actors were or what props they were using to simulate rifles, but BIS has said (I think) that they were mocapped with a lot of gear on.

[-Total- 0]

80 meter accuracy while walking and sighted? (or moving period for that matter).

One word: No

I'm a three time Gulf War vet and two time Bosnia vet. Not only is it unrealistic, it's absolutely absurd to think that it is.

Here's a visual example. This was done in a CAD program, so this is to scale. I used yards as my grid measurement just because it's what I was working in last.

1 yard = .9144 meters

In the picture, the left oval is the shooter. The bottom line is a straight 80 yard line at 0 degrees to the target 80 yards away.

The vertical lines are placesd at the 10 yard markers along the X Axis.

The top line is an 80 yard line at a mere 1 degree.

The difference is 1.43 yards (1.31 meters) away from the center line of the target.

Since aiming is 360 degrees, when applied to a circular format, here is your margin of error at 80 yards in relation to the average human head size (inner oval is the head, outter circle is the error at 1 degree at 80 yards).

At half a meter from the shooter, a variance of 0.36 inches (0.91 centimeters) is the equivalent to a 1 degree variance.

So, unless you hold your weapon steady as a rock while slow walking, then the likelyhood of you hitting anything except air is pretty much null.

ArmA has it right.

[Inkompetent 0]

Nice post, Total! Good some solid posts crushing myths

[SaBrE_UK 0]

i want to be able of walk (slowly, yes) aiming thru the sights and

still beeing able of shot to death at +80m (while i walk forward)

Quote[/b] ]80 meter accuracy while walking and sighted? (or moving period for that matter).

One word: No

I'm a three time Gulf War vet and two time Bosnia vet. Not only is it unrealistic, it's absolutely absurd to think that it is.

Good to have military feedback now and again May I ask, Total, have you used the ACE mod? Is the walking "steadiness" in that a bit much?

[[asa]oden 0]

You guys realise OP is talking about the butt stock pressed firmly to the shoulder is moving in 1st person view, not the actual aim, right?

[SaBrE_UK 0]

ODEN @ Jan. 09 2009,15:55)]You guys realise OP is talking about the butt stock pressed firmly to the shoulder is moving in 1st person view, not the actual aim, right?

Yes but the discussion has evolved since then, whilst still being related.

[Second 0]

ODEN @ Jan. 09 2009,15:55)]You guys realise OP is talking about the butt stock pressed firmly to the shoulder is moving in 1st person view, not the actual aim, right?

Yes but the discussion has evolved since then, whilst still being related.

Yes and OP did state that he finds sway to be too big in one of his posts. Which i too think it is for asphalt field, taking accurate shots at target while moving in armA happens from ranges about 10-20 meters (and even then sway will move sights off from target). So in ArmA hitting from movement is very hard... Then again as i've tried to say ArmA has just one sway on move and most of terrain on Sahrani (or any other map) is not suitable to fire accurately on move. True, it probably bit messes MOUT feeling of game, as your forced to halt and re-aim each time of you come against enemy. So i can understand not all persons like it... i feel whole moving style stupid as it really serves nothing other than that it LOOKS tactical in 3rd person, it just feels bad. Well true character keeps his rifle up and by that gains faster reaction speed blah-blah-blah. Funny thing is that in OFP weapon sway was much smaller in slow walk, almost solid, even when movement animation wasn't very tactical looking

I've been about to post several times this, but due some odd reason haven't. Well i quess i should, if someones are interested about military standpoint. Our MOUT-jaegers, mostly training for MOUT, are doing that from about 35-40 meters, i don't know it very well as i've just read their discussion about it. But they seem to consider ranges of about 35 meters and less to be easy distances to put rounds in human sized target while moving. My experiences goes along those lines, altought i probably have spent much less time practicing it and i probably am not as good at using it, expacely when firing short bursts at various locations of body (they seemed to aim at other places than center mass of target as target probably would have bullet proof vests on).

[wipman 1]

Hi, @Total, give me back a damn cetme L and take me back to a

live firing field, with targets at 85m and i'll show you how i don't

go out of the 8s of the target. They wanted to give me a medal and

an AWP, but i refused to stay & they arrested me for smoke joints

while doing a guard instead. Let's C ya

[Balschoiw 0]

Absurd discussion.

The sway of the weapon may be inaccurate but on the other hand noone is able to run around with the weapon up and ready all day long as portrayed in Arma and any other shooter I know.

Apart from that I think direct hits on conceiled targets on 80 meters are more or less something you will hardly be able to achieve irl. Period. Moving and firing hardly ever works well beyond 15 meters. Anyway...moving and firing is not meant to be a precise method of engaging your opponent, it´s meant to surpress your enemy while you or your team is moving and therefore exposed.

If anything, walking with your sights up all day long is unrealistic.

Quote[/b] ]with targets at 85m and i'll show you how i don't

go out of the 8s of the target.

Firing range and combat situations are not comparable in any way.

[-Total- 0]

Balschoiw,

Great avatar. One of my favorite Muppet vis

Firing ranges are indeed far different than firing under duress.

Of course smoking a joint of watch......well......I'll leave that one alone.

[wipman 1]

Hi, that's all what i can tell you about fire weapons, live firing ranges

and CQB exercises plus villages take overs with CAS from AV-8's

and UH-1N's from the spanish Armada. Sadly i never had a chance of

kill someone in a real war enviroment. But i asume that the ArmA's

way of walk (slowly) and aim thru the sights it's the same as a firing

range where you begin at a given distance and you've 2 magazines

to get closer to the target shooting, then pick it up, patch it up and

sume all your points to inform your 1St Sargeant of what you've achived

and then go back to the line again and wait for repeat 3 times the

damn exercise; that's not as funny as the CQB in frigates and supply

vessels and much less than the villages raids that were very funny.

In a real situation with "targets" that return back the fire i wouldn't

be that exposed or anything; i know how this shit works and seems

that im quite good at it, or that's what they told me. I just say that

the way of aim/shot while moving in ArmA could be improved, begining

by allow us to walk more slowly, as what happens with the tanks;

that you can go at normal speed, fast or slow. Slow is what i mean;

we should be allowed to walk in that way (as in the ACE mod)

keeping the 90% of our accuracy. Let's C ya

[SaBrE_UK 0]

Sadly i never had a chance of

kill someone in a real war enviroment.

Erm...

[william1 0]

Sadly i never had a chance of

kill someone in a real war enviroment.

Erm...

+1