Flight model needs a tweak

[EDcase 87]

Hiall,

(EDIT: I think this should be in SUGGESTIONS section)

(EDIT2: just realised that in the vid when flying the Hind time has been sped up so its not as bad as it seems)

All the footage of ARMA2 looks amazing but I think the aircraft seem to pitch and roll too fast. (too responsive)

http://www.armaholic.com/index.php?m=single&id=3806

I just saw the video of Hind flying around and it looks great but doesn't seem to have much weight or inertia as is pitches and rolls too quickly.

I would suggest adding an ease curve to make the response start slower and gather momentum. (ie. pitch up or down would start slowly and then get faster. It should be slower when the aircraft is moving forward at high speed)

Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGbSeUPjDok&feature=related

Its not definitive because it may not be maximum limit but look at 2:40 Being an airshow the displays usually show off what can be done and the pitch down is still quite slow.

[Alex72 1]

Maybe this is the completelly wrong topic for this but i needed to get this off my chest.

The KA50 and i think KA52? can move sideways in high speed. This wasnt the case in ArmA1 so i beg of you BIS to get this working.

Regards

Alex

[ArMoGaDoN 0]

re-re-re-re-Tail rotor authority for tail-rotor helos needs to be increased,

Yaw authority in the Ka50/52 should be huge really...

[Placebo 29]

Moving to suggestions. Such posts should be left as comments in existing footage threads really IMO.

[dentist guba 0]

maybe it's simply because of the mouse being very sensitive, i played ARMA with a 360 pad and lower sensitivity and it was fine.

[Alex72 1]

The game is speeded up when hes flying around. Thats why it looks fast.

More power to the helis is needed in ArmA2. Like climbing and descending is way faster in real life. Too little power when doing evasive maneuvers for example. Dive down and pull the collective to get up again is too powerless. Would be nice with attack helis with some agility in ArmA2. Also video inside the cockpit that can be zoomed and locked on target. Doesnt need to be advanced stuff but able to lock and zoom, so if you fly around the target stays in center of screen when locked. If you however turn over 90 degrees from 12'o'clock, the camera unlocks and swings forward. Think i saw there will be image in image (mirror effect on car) in ArmA2? Dont know if that was true. But if it is, then the camera on the helis like i explained would be awesome.

[dentist guba 0]

i want to be able to adjust the sensitivity for each activity, it's quite awkward in ARMA one minute waving your gun all over the screen with huge sensitivity then getting in a chopper and barely being able to move it.

[Fresh- 6]

I hope BIS will re-examine the flight model of planes in ARMA2. I hope they will incorporate more realism into the flight model, better lift, maybe even adding a 'trim' option. Trimming an airplane is fairly crucial in real life. As well, better gauges and cockpits. For ideas of elegant simplicity, check micro flight by ilan papini. Somehow he manages to get clear and functional gauges working in his sim.

And another suggestion, super easy to do, very important: While in Options under controller settings, please include a distinction between helicopter and airplanes. I use a 'reverse' throttle when flying the helicopters. Upon entering a plane or helicopter, I have to go into options and remap the controller, depending on what I flew last. It's a big pain.

In the end, thanks for everything. Arma is excellent. I'm really looking forward to ArmAII.

[gonk 0]

after zipping around in a Real Chopper Sim.. the flight models need a large tweak.. At least... More Tail Rotor authority and descend faster would be the 2 main issues.

[mr.g-c 6]

I agree on all and i want to add that please BIS, remove that "auto-turn-around" when flying backwards at a certain speed.

[DespairsRay 0]

I hope the AI are able to use more maneuvers also and their abilities are even more editable in the configs.

Knowing when to roll, hugging the ground, down turning (roll over and then turn) above a certain altitude so they don't crash, and a few other practical aircraft maneuvers in dogfights from RL.

Nothing over the top though, but just a few more options for the AI pilots, but a way to differentiate abilities for fixed wing fighters and transports and heli' transports and attackers. Something like that.

[aus_twisted 0]

I really hope proper throttle control will be added like I mentioned here - http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....t=75862

It would be kinda pointless in making the flight model better if we dont have 100% throttle control.

[max power 21]

I agree on all and i want to add that please BIS, remove that "auto-turn-around" when flying backwards at a certain speed.

What do you mean? Wind vaning in helicopters is realistic. It may not happen exactly as BIS has it set up, but deleting it completely would lead to a less realistic simulation.

[mr.g-c 6]

I agree on all and i want to add that please BIS, remove that "auto-turn-around" when flying backwards at a certain speed.

What do you mean?  Wind vaning in helicopters is realistic.  It may not happen exactly as BIS has it set up, but deleting it completely would lead to a less realistic simulation.

What i mean is if i fly backwards and even at low speeds, suddenly my helicopter turns 360° and i fly with nose into the direction i was flying with tail before.

In Internet are a lot of data how fast a helicopter can fly backwards, sidewards, etc.... Arma is miles away from that

They should stick to those data available.

[max power 21]

Okay, but the 'auto turn around' thing is actually realistic. What you're talking about is decreased 'aerodynamic stability' at low speeds.

It's actually possible to fly very fast in reverse or sideways in ArmA. There's a technique to it but I'm not sure if BIS intended it to be so. If the conditions are right, you can fly near the top speed of the helicopter sideways or backwards.

[sk3pt 0]

72 @ Sep. 04 2008,09:03)]The KA50 and i think KA52? can move sideways in high speed. This wasnt the case in ArmA1 so i beg of you BIS to get this working.

Actually, you already can in Arma1 . If you keep counter adjusting with your pedals as you start moving sideways, you won't snap back forward. In this "state", however, you won't get any forward momentum no matter what you do. It's a slight bug, but nothing really serious as it's not exploitable.

[EDIT]

Should possibly be addressed in the final patch.

[hailstorm 4]

I agree on all and i want to add that please BIS, remove that "auto-turn-around" when flying backwards at a certain speed.

What do you mean?  Wind vaning in helicopters is realistic.  It may not happen exactly as BIS has it set up, but deleting it completely would lead to a less realistic simulation.

What i mean is if i fly backwards and even at low speeds, suddenly my helicopter turns 360° and i fly with nose into the direction i was flying with tail before.

In Internet are a lot of data how fast a helicopter can fly backwards, sidewards, etc.... Arma is miles away from that

They should stick to those data available.

i would agree with both your points, but it has to be said that the main problem is that ArmA has handled it really badly;

unlike in game, there is no 'set speed' at which helicopters stop behaving like helicopters and more like planes - IRL it's a slow, gradual process that is directly related to airspeed. the faster you go, the more of the 'weathervaning' force is present - starts small, and gradually gets more prominent to the point where you cannot fight against it.

in ArmA it seems to be a set figure: for the Blackhawk, for example, the switch happens at 95 km/h - you can tell because the elevator suddenly changes from pointing down to straight back. up until that point, helicopter behavior - you can strafe, etc. once you're going faster than it, airplane behavior; banking just becomes turning.

not that RL helicopters don't function similar to airplanes at high speed, but the only thing i think is wrong right now is how there is a set 'switch' speed, instead of a gradual change.

[max power 21]

In response to TOP's pitch and roll complaint, you can tell when time compression is being used by the helicopter rotors. When the rotors are doubled, you're in normal time. If you see only 4 on a 4 bladed helicopter, time compression is being used. I think the scenes with the pitch and roll issues are in time compression.

[Bucic 1]

Hardcore flight simmer here. You discuss improvements regarding flight models in ArmA but has anybody noticed that ArmA's helicopters does not fly according to fundamentals of flight (or at least AC control fundamentals). In ArmA you have keys to set your altitude above the ground while in RL and real flight sims you don't have such a function! You only set main rotor blades pitch and whether you will ascend or descend is up to the current flight configuration (mainly heli body pitch and speed).

The funny thing is I almost can't fly ArmA choppers because I am "programmed" to fly the real thing / proper sim

My suggestion to BI:

Take a look at some good flight sim and do characteristics ripping. Copy them roughly - you'll get MUCH better effects and no-one will know! Some proper sims offer coordinates/movement raw data exporting!

There are companies like ED which work on military contracts. In terms of flight model there's nothing to improve with their Su-25/39 and Ka-50 flight model. If you don't wan't to rip their characteristics just ask them for a simplified flight model in exchange for their logo appearance.

Offer the LINDA system as their currently developing a new engine for their upcoming flight sim modules!

[sk3pt 0]

The flight model in Arma is not that bad, but I hope they will continue to improve it even more, especially for planes.

For planes, the rudder should be even more powerful.

When you pull hard nose up and release the stick, the nose will come back down a little because of the airflow. Great if they could add this to the ArmA2 FM.

A few more tweaks, and it could turn out to be a great "flightsim" for those who don't care that much for realistic weapon systems, but just want to fly.

[Focha 0]

Hardcore flight simmer here. You discuss improvements regarding flight models in ArmA but has anybody noticed that ArmA's helicopters does not fly according to fundamentals of flight (or at least AC control fundamentals). In ArmA you have keys to set your altitude above the ground while in RL and real flight sims you don't have such a function! You only set main rotor blades pitch and whether you will ascend or descend is up to the current flight configuration (mainly heli body pitch and speed).

The funny thing is I almost can't fly ArmA choppers because I am "programmed" to fly the real thing / proper sim

My suggestion to BI:

Take a look at some good flight sim and do characteristics ripping. Copy them roughly - you'll get MUCH better effects and no-one will know! Some proper sims offer coordinates/movement raw data exporting!

There are companies like ED which work on military contracts. In terms of flight model there's nothing to improve with their Su-25/39 and Ka-50 flight model. If you don't wan't to rip their characteristics just ask them for a simplified flight model in exchange for their logo appearance.

Offer the LINDA system as their currently developing a new engine for their upcoming flight sim modules!

About helicopter flying I just feel exactly like you! But for the sake of the tactical shooter and not a flight sim I would ask just for a bit of a tweaking and make it arcadish and not FM fidelity. For flight simulators we have flight simulators. I am a virtual helicopter pilot and studding to become one one thing is sure, ArmA does not have helicopter it has some kind of alien tech applied to the helos. But that's not bad. As some have said I hope they improve just a bit the FM not to the point of being a realistic flight sim but a way where real pilots can fly it... lol rather than getting to the hot zone too high because the thing don't want to come down to the ground.

Regards.