Why are most pvp players laughable at best in arma

[Migel 0]

Ok to create a picture a bit I join a server filled with 30 people

being it warfare or bezerk which by the looks of it have been playing for some time. I kill a tank ...maybe 2 and some infantry being it players or just ai as in warfare.

The game has been good underway in time but after just killing about 5 guys i suddenly realise i went from place 25 to the first 5 people on the scoreboard.

Now at first this was very ego stroking to get topscore and oblirating everything in your way. But because I also play other games next to arma ( like ofp, company of heroes, bf with mod ) I realised that its definantly not my super skill that makes me some kind of god in arma pvp.

So i come to question why do I kill everything on my way while being a average player. And these are some of my findings why most the players in arma sucks balls .

Lack of communication

Because they dont communicate or even read. Their team doesnt get any information about the situation. But also they dont read that their friends are driving a stolen tank or warning them for enemy one and they still get suprised by the situation.

Lack of stratigical skill

The have no understanding what the consequences of their actions are on long term. For example in warfare where a town is hard to be taken because of hard focus off enemies instead of making a defence perimeter away from the town to lure em out into a area where they are in disadvantage and then focus on backsector towns for income to push em back, they insist of engaging the town head on. Also when a base is discovered they want to move it away but are then unaware that the frontline will also shift more and more and eventually u will be stuck in the same situation as before. Also they dont seem to know what a friendly/enemy zone is for ground and air.

Lack of tactical skill

Luring players out, using the terrain to your advantage and outflanking your oponnent. As well as keeping a good eye on the ever changing situation of the warzone seems alien language.

Snipers stay camping when its time to push forward. Grunts attack their goals head on preferably parking next to their objective even though enemies may be about. Basicly they are to carefull or 2 careless to be any good in the battlefield

Lack of basic skill

Long time for aiming, slow movement. Wrong choice of gear.

Aiming accuracy is good but not for moving targets.

Most of em dont know how to kill a brdm with their m16 or how to take of a plane without use of a runway. And their oversight of the battlefield is most the times comparable of a 6 year old kid that lost his teddy bear in a typical ww2 movie combat scene

Lack of PVP feeling

Killing yourself to respawn gets you somehwere faster than crawling around for 30 min. asking for a medic. Timing your actions on enemy behaviour is something most people never even heard off.

I am not sure. At first I would have said that the players needed to adjust from evolution and real coops to something that was more dynamic. I mean if u used to communicationless cooperation from evolution, having someone now warning for incoming helicopters can be a big change

And for coop players its gonna be hard to start in bad situations.

I mean most coops start with a base that is most the time clean and gives them time to prepare well while in pvp no place is safe unless there is a giant circle of death around your base like in berzerk.

But like i said I thought these days of conversion are over.

So what are your thoughts on this? Is the community just really slow and noob, am i just to sexy for my car, are people still stuck with their minds on coop or is the game to crappy for pvp that people dont even trie to get some skill for it

[CameronMcDonald 146]

Heh, I've experienced the same feeling you have a few times, mostly in MP when I was bored.

I think most PvP players fail to apply the principles from other FPSs to ArmA. That and the fact that (especially in veteran mode) aiming isn't as easy as in other games means a lot of people end up racing wildly, probably mashing their mouse buttons IRL and wondering why they aren't shooting.

Examples of the principles I mean:

- Randomisation of movement: it might just have been me, but very few people pull different things in MP maps, Bezerk especially. It's quite easy sometimes to spot and ID the "always grabs the Abrams," "99% takes a Cobra" and "always approaches from the left passageway" players early on. Mixing up your approach works in every game from CS:S to ArmA - if you do something people don't expect every now and then, you will get a helluva lot more kills than otherwise.

- The animations don't help. People are sometimes so eager to get into the fighting that they clip around a corner, into a more cautious (i.e. better prepared) player's ironsights. I think some players assume if I can't fire straight, neither can the enemy.

- Going on from the above, sometimes walking in ArmA is far far far more preferable to running, for the simple reason that you can actually shoot straight.

- Some players seem just plain retarded. I imagine they play one or two MP games, then leave.

- People don't read the briefing. In most Bezerk CTF games, the leading players are the ones who are actually trying to survive to get to the enemy flag. They kill more and (subsequently) score more, even without capturing successfully.

I could go on. Any other opinions?

[baddo 0]

The lack of communication annoyed me a lot on some public servers.

It was just impossible to get anyone do anything organized if they didn't want to listen.

There are servers in which that problem mostly doesn't exist, though...

[sparks50 0]

We need to do like Project Reality and severely punish the ones walking alone. Thats the only way to get teamplay.

Battlefields Squad-voice system wouldnt be bad either, we already have a VON, now all we need is to force people to squad up together.

[walker 0]

Hi all

I know that certain people at Zeus are talking about running classes to teach gamers to communicate and how to use command structures.

Kind Regards walker

[Spokesperson 0]

It is because all PVP's are dull to the extreme, there is no apparent need for communication.

The problem is easily solved by allowing one life/round only until all teams are dead. Life will be more valuable that way.

[Frantic 0]

...or is the game to crappy for pvp that people dont even trie to get some skill for it

Yeah that is the problem!

My clan just stopped playing ArmA because of that.

We are waiting for ArmAII and OFP2.

Maybe one of these games will have a proper PvP gameplay and community then.

[benreeper 0]

You guys come here just to post that?

--Ben

[JeRK 0]

Public PvP is junk because the missions are.

If you want good ArmA PvP join IC-ArmA

[opteryx 1562]

It is because all PVP's are dull to the extreme, there is no apparent need for communication.

The problem is easily solved by allowing one life/round only until all teams are dead. Life will be more valuable that way.

We need to do like Project Reality and severely punish the ones walking alone. Thats the only way to get teamplay.

Battlefields Squad-voice system wouldnt be bad either, we already have a VON, now all we need is to force people to squad up together.

Although I hardly play ArmA multiplayer anymore (topic is one of the reasons I stopped) I completely agree with these points.

[The_Captain 0]

My post mostly references berzerk but some other PvP maps fit my notes:

It's hard to find something to communicate about when player density is often extremely low (10 players in 1x1km^2?), and when you run into an enemy, often he kills you without you knowing, or you kill him without him knowing.

If I spot an enemy, I'll kill him. If I don't spot him, he'll likely have killed me. Since players can respawn anywhere, and often instantly, with high powered weapons (m24, javelin, etc), you have no idea where you will encounter anyone: they could be anywhere. Engagements happen at unpredictable times and they are over so quickly that there's no reason to spot enemies or ask for help.

Not to mention, you don't lose berzerk, you just score points and wait for the time to expire. If *anything* the other team did caused a team to lose early, they might see a reason to communicate (telling each other where the tank is that's about to take the last CP and win, maybe).

Communicating thus can't help you kill people, and can't stop you from losing. All it can do in this case is help players coordinate to kill others, but with freely respawning enemies, protected spawn zones, and no way to win the game early, there's not much of a reason to do that either.

Thus, there's not really much to communicate to someone on my team about, and no reason for me (or other players) to do so.

If players figured they could win by communicating, or realized that a lack of communication is what caused them to lose horribly and embarrassingly, they would start to actually communicate.

It's more the mission's fault than the player's fault, in my opinion. Missions that punish players (killing lone players, etc) for acting alone/not communicating/etc give *negative* reasons for players to work together, but you might as well design the game so that people have a positive incentive to perform the behavior you want.

My cents.

[Stiletto 0]

Finally someone comes out and says what i have for months! I was on a server 2 days ago with 18 players and some of the clans recruits were giving me crap because i was communicating armor movement as well as enemy troop movement. I wasnt part of the clan just a smokin good pub player. lol" all of a sudden i hear...is anyone listening to wolf?? I answered back why? you should because im not part of your clan and mypoints are at the top of the board. At which point someone pointed out with a name like wolf who would listen to you. Let me stress i was the top of the score board not by kills to death !! but full out objective points mixed with kills. I couldnt believe a person would pay for a server to let it go to shit by not communicating for over an hour and then let a recruit give sas to a visting player??

However i still love the game. and when players are communicating.(not over communicating have you) but basic communicating...its an amazing game. This is a game that is either really fun or total shit..depending on who's playing with you.

[PhilippRauch 0]

I thinks its because its public servers... the good players dwell in their own private servers, with their buddies/clan/whatever. IMHO.

Its surely based in part of what the threadcreator wrote in his first post.

My remedy for him would be: Find a good Coop Clan and get going. Many have actually quite hard membership requirements. Some are for ex/Military only. Or make a own one.

[desertjedi 3]

Quote[/b] ]I thinks its because its public servers... the good players dwell in their own private servers, with their buddies/clan/whatever.

I absolutely agree. On public servers, even when playing co-op its near impossible to expect communication, teamplay, and discipline. But expecting it in PvP, IMHO, is even more unlikely.

The way this was handled in other games I've played is to start your own server and enforce whatever rules you want. In VietCong, when you saw the word TeamRespawn in the server name, you knew exactly what was expected of you and if you didn't abide by the rules, you were instantly kicked/banned.

So I say there are only two ways to get good gameplay:

1. Start your own server and enforce your rules.

2. Or join a clan.

If there's any game on the planet that screams out for communication, tactics, teamplay and discipline, it's ArmA.

[Migel 0]

I am luckily not the only one who thinks this is so.

However its not only the lack of communication but also very lack of any skill on the battlefield. If a guy is camping a house in berzerk next to a flag and it gets taken he just stays there untill he finally gets killed by 2 many enemy players spawning there.

I havent seen anything like it before, its worse than battlefield where people jump out of cover to shoot at your tank with a assault rifles becuase it has light ap rounds ( against heavy body armors ) because they at least get from cover to do something. Most arma players I have seen rather stay put untill the war blows over

I am not sure what to do though like Phillip says my clan stays put on XR Warfare so in coop with them its still best, but knowing im just fighting grandmas takes the whole challenge away from it. I often tend to play on the other side to make it more challenging for them, however just be annoyed to hell that my team cant even vote a commander.

Ic arma or project reality stuff is not my thing that much, the realism and over communication cut away with what needed to be done I was often found waiting for 20 minutes because my whole team got whiped by ai ( those guys that cant shoot u if u fire from cover ) and when they arrived had to wait another 20 minutes before new orders were given.

[Jungle.Sniper 0]

Migel [your first post] BANG ON TARGET with what you say. Im an ex serviceman and when I'm on a pvp server I find it so annoying that i spend time watching firefights and other contacts going on.

an example,

Im on a ridge line over looking a capture point, I see to T72's coming from the east about 1500m away, I look at the map and see that the first ppl they will come into contact with are 3 freindlies one of which is a M1A1 so I get on the horn [type] to all 3 of them telling them whats coming for them, what do I get NO REPLY AND 3 mins LATER THEY GET TAKEN OUT.

Conclusion:- Why do we bother with these noobs at all. And also they may not speak or understand english.

[Commando84 0]

yeah i totally feel the same as the topic creator but i think people join public games for that quick fix, sometimes though in big long missions like evo and warefare communication is absolutely vital in completing the mission in a short amount of time and not 8 hours

Problems imo is when people speak french or russian or german and not english wich imo should be the main language on the internet.

english people created the internet so...

Im not english myself but i think its more polite to speak english than if i spoke swedish and no one else would understand..

I get the feel sometimes when i meet some people online and chatted with them that they don't seem to know there is a forum for arma or any news / addon sites around and they just live in the online gaming part of the community.

[baddo 0]

I will have to disagree with you Commando84 about the use of the languages.

Yes, it is good that we have some common language to use.

But if you join for example a French server and 19 out of 20 people there speak French but not Swedish or English, why would you expect them to use English? That just doesn't make sense.

The solution to your problem is to learn the languages or to only join the servers in which you can use the languages you know.

Or you can just try to handle the situation somehow. I've played on French servers and it was great. I communicated in English and everyone else communicated in French. I gave information to the others about where I spotted enemies and what I was going to do next. And the other guys started to cooperate with me even though they did not speak back to me (at least I didn't notice if they tried, I don't understand French and they never mentioned my nickname). That was better than usually on public servers, even though I could not understand what they were saying.

In my opinion there is no point trying to force everyone to use English, especially when they are running their own servers and they didn't specifically ask you to come to their server to talk to them in English. You just went in and expected that they communicate with you in English - that is bordering on arrogancy as I see it

[croc4 0]

Well I see both sides of this,

1. maybe people just want to play and not interact with other players, you really don't know their situation.

2. is it reasonable to be able to communicate with team members that are not in your immediate squad? I think everyone being able to "talk" to everyone on the team is not really realistic (I know this is just a game, but every touts it as a sim...) but for online gaming it does help, is it needed...no

[bazooka_boy 0]

It is always hard to get that level of communication on apublic server and even if you get communication you need to trust the source and filter it to your own situation which can be hard to do if you don't know how your situation fits into the bigger picture.

If you want that level of organisation I think tournaments/large scale clan matches are the only way to get it. But by the fact that they are organised means someone is in command and you rely on them to control the battlefield.

Shameless plug but I think we have struck a pretty good balance between organisation/realism and fun at ATOW and I would invite you to stop by and check us out.

[Yoma 0]

I personally don't use TS very much as it creeps out my girlfriend.

She's fine with me waging war all night long, but she doesn't want to hear me say stuff like "3 infantry at 500 north" "you got em" all night long.

However i must say (and i think that most people that fought with or against me on a server will agree), i'm not a bad player AT ALL.

I tag along with people naturally and set up strategic positions based on their positions without real need for spoken coms. (then again I have been playing "this" game for 7 years now)

When i do use TS all works out fine too, but it's no requirement to me at all, allthough i must admit to a lot of people IT IS A REQUIREMENT just to keep em in order.

Quick markers on the map are very good if not a lot better then blablabla on the radio to point out stuff.

When i come home after a hard days work i don't feel the need to shout commands to people all the time. I just want to enjoy a game.

TS is utter crap unless used correctly (that is split up teams coms, good teamleaders (that are the only ones that speak to other teams) and a good "general" that coordinates the entire battle. The problem with this is that Arma then quickly moves away from being a game into being in the army.

Of course this adds a dimension to the game, but not everyone is interested in this dimension.

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

Most of the people playing "professional" left short after the launch of ArmA, because those animation movements don't allow you to become good or get better. When the the kill & death is decided by the animations, 1 step more or less with a weird movement of your gun, instead of the skill of a player, people will leave and seek for rather competitive games like cod4, cs, bf2 etc. As ArmA don't allow you such things like OFP1 did, you don't find any competitive leagues, therefore no clans in train for such a reason and that's the reason aswell, why you will not find a lot server following the way you like it.

[cain2001 0]

My teammates just teamkill me So I have to switch sides and play against them instead! As for more professional gameplay its like guerilla said, there is none. Only few leagues and clans are able to put up with a good fight.

[169th_Ice 0]

I think it depends on the server and the mission.

If you had joined the 169th High Performance Server you would not have made this post. I promise.

[jasono 0]

I think it depends on the server and the mission.

If you had joined the 169th High Performance Server you would not have made this post. I promise.

Agreed.

Unfortunatly ArmA is open to anyone to do what they please. You just have to go to the right places, and find the right people. Hard I know but theres many clans and servers who enforce serious tactical game play like the the above guy or GOL.