Captured Depos and Structures.

[Dynamax 0]

hey whats up. i'd like to discuss the way we can build structures around captured depos in WARFARE.

today i was playing some warfare on a public server (i wont say which out of respect), the map was warfare 1.1.

so im on the bluefor side and we are located on the north part of the island. i make my way down to Corozal and find that its been captured by the opfor, so i go ahead an take the north most depo. i now go into the build menue and start to build a sandbag wall across the main road as far as the screen allows me to, so thats like 100 so meters to either side.

i finish closing off the depo so no one can get in or out of it, when i hear some enemy vehicles approch. i move the screen over untill im right over the enemy tank and start to build a wall around it and trap it. soon i have a few players tring to make their way around the wall so i trap them also... now im being called a hacker for doing what the game lets me do..

it wasnt long befor i was kick out of the server and had it locked behind me. now what i'd like to know is what everyone else thinks about this. should i have been kicked for doing nothing wrong, just being an ass and exploiting a feature of warfare that everyone can do?

[Rommel 2]

You shouldve been warned, then if continued, kicked.

[Dynamax 0]

well i wasnt told to stop, i was just accused of hacking

if i was told to stop, i would have.

[l mandrake 9]

perhaps there should be a build-delay for camp structures, just like for the factories at the base (1 minute?). this would at least stop players reacting to threats with instant magic walls etc.

[sparks50 0]

well i wasnt told to stop, i was just accused of hacking

if i was told to stop, i would have.

[Dynamax 0]

small update.

you can also kill players with the walls.

trap them in a boxed wall structure, then build walls on them.

they will get hurt then die. BIS needs to look into this and find a fix.

[ShrubMiK 0]

Or perhaps they could find a way to genetically engineer the human race and ensure that idiots like you do not occur

[BLSmith2112 0]

Fact is: It was not addressed by anyone that made the mission.

What is annoying by some, is tactical to the other player. Like for example, a different senario:

Some could see it as a smart thing: Block all entrances to the camps in a town so the enemy can't take it from you, which allows you to only have to defend the main bunker... That's a strategic idea... Are they really an idiot if they use the tools given to them by the mission in order to defend an objective? If it truly is a problem, perhaps it will be addressed...

[Dynamax 0]

Fact is: It was not addressed by anyone that made the mission.  

What is annoying by some, is tactical to the other player. Like for example, a different senario:

Some could see it as a smart thing: Block all entrances to the camps in a town so the enemy can't take it from you, which allows you to only have to defend the main bunker... That's a strategic idea... Are they really an idiot if they use the tools given to them by the mission in order to defend an objective? If it truly is a problem, perhaps it will be addressed...

thank you for understanding my point.

Quote[/b] ]ShrubMiK- Posted on July 06 2008,08:20-

Or perhaps they could find a way to genetically engineer the human race and ensure that idiots like you do not occur

so by your reasoning, if i were to get in a tank and sit on a mountain top firing HEAT rounds into the enemy base, i would be considered an idiot for using the features supplied to me by the game/mission designer?.. wow thats so smart that it went right over my head.

it's the same if i run into an enemy in the open, but i have a rock i can hide behind and use for cover, but since my enemy doesnt have one, its considered cheap and im an idiot for using it for my advantage.. like an exploit.. wow.

[Leopard2 0]

Following that logic I could say that since ArmA allows me to use a client side addon giving me the ability to 'createVehicle' anything I want, etc. , the server is allowing me to do so since it's not using signatures. Yeah right!

Come on! You were being a jerk. You couldn't stop your opponents any other way than boxing them in. Mission designers can't possibly anticipate all kinds of abuse. Use some common sense!

If you're Dynamo from FHA and it happened at the 506th PIR server then it was probably me you boxed in. Honestly, I didn't know it was possible to build these things from camps and jumped to a conclusion. Obviously, it wasn't hacking.

I was clearly voicing my frustration and suspicion in the chat and at no time did you point out it was you or what you were doing. You kept spawning at the camp even though it was 'protected' by your sand bags just to keep boxing in your opponents killing them this way. So, please tell me again you were doing it for 'strategic' reasons. I was actually surprised to see you do stuff like this given my experience and all the fun we had on Karrillion's RTS server back in ofp times.

[JuggernautOfWar 1]

You shouldve been warned, then if continued, kicked.

Exactly. They should have warned you first. So to answer your question... No. But eventually yes.

[Dynamax 0]

Leopard2- thanks for the reply.

using something that comes with the game unchanged by any addons is compleatly different then using 3rd party addons.

sorry for boxing you in, but i had to see how much i could do.

i compleatly agree that what i did was cheap, hardly an exploit. now i would love to know if BIS has any plans on maybe changing the way the building of structures are handled. why not set a limit as to the number of walls one can build around a camp?.. as it is right now i could build a huge mass of walls within the view area in the build menue, since i have more income coming in then what im using on walls. i'd say limit the walls to maybe 10-20 max/camp.

better yet, why not have the walls grow lilke the structures at the base?, that way you cant box anyone in

[Franklin 0]

We had this same thing happen on our server before (Im CPT Franklin from the 506th PIR) we consider it an exploit on our server to completley box in the camp, or to use repair trucks to box in the depo. YES, the walls can be destroyed and are a great asset to assist in defence, we do not frown on using them to construct defences around those areas. however if you use them to completley enclose an area, we will kick you from the server as a warning, and if you do it again, you will be banned. In the spirit of fair gameplay, you should leave at least 1 opening to enter and exit from, at that point it would only create a chokepoint and an obstacle to breech which is fine by me.

using the walls to directly box in and kill players or destroy vehicles i consider cheating. both, boxing in camps/depots and players/vehicles i view as a tactic created by those who suck too hard to be able to directly engage and destroy thier enemy. In addition to their overall lack of skill, they typically continue to play with complete disregard for what the team is doing and do not help acomplish the goal of thier commander. i say this because i have seen this tactic used a few times, by players that were nowhere near the area the rest of thier team was operating in. These types of players i will personally ban for the hopes that they go buy BF2 and can play a game that suits thier nub style.

[Alex72 1]

That just seems... retarded. Possible or not, im not going around hitting people in the face even though i can. Common sense takes you a long way. I think warfare would be rather boring and pointless if people spawned into these bunkers and just waited for people to come by and box them in.

Sounds completelly retarded, possible or not.

Regards

Alex

[volkov956 0]

building walls from camps more like MFCTI would make it impossible for this to happe but would allow u to still make wall systems

[KaRRiLLioN 0]

I played warfare for the first time this weekend and noticed the insta-build walls/defenses myself.

Personally, I think his idea was very clever, even if it wasn't in the spirit of gameplay. But this is something quite easy for the creator to fix, IMO. While I think the method of building is interesting, nobody actually builds the walls. I think workers or soldiers should come out of the complex and do it. If they're killed during construction, then the wall isn't built. As it is now, you're looking at legos.

[Griffon2-6 0]

Yeah, I like Karillion's idea. Seems even better than a delay. But it may be too much work for such a small thing, and what about building from repair trucks?

[arma.isgreat.org 0]

All is fair in love and war, making rules for game elements is like asking the enemy to attack through your kill zone. Almost as bad as the 9th infantry not allowing arty strikes on thier base.

[Takbal 0]

I was boxed last night as well - should have asked the guy to stop or ask admin to kick him but I was a bit surprised. ArmA is about giving a close to real experience about combat, and walling in enemies is the farthest possible from this. This is an exploit, period. Anyone doing it should be banned on spot. If unsure about exploits, always ask the simple question: can it be happen in real life? Shelling a camp can, while building magic walls cannot.

It is easy to be fixed: if an enemy is nearby (a bit further than building range), building is disabled, just like capture is not done whenever enemy is nearby. This solution is realistic: nobody places sandbags or sets up buildings when fired upon.

[ModaFlanker 0]

It is easy to be fixed: if an enemy is nearby (a bit further than building range), building is disabled, just like capture is not done whenever enemy is nearby. This solution is realistic: nobody places sandbags or sets up buildings when fired upon.

Agreed!

Use the same script that Supply Depots use to detect that an enemy is nearby [and that you cannot cap the Supply Depot until you have removed this enemy].

Presto, no more building structures while an enemy is nearby [and boxing them in].

[nobrainer 0]

It is easy to be fixed: if an enemy is nearby (a bit further than building range), building is disabled, just like capture is not done whenever enemy is nearby. This solution is realistic: nobody places sandbags or sets up buildings when fired upon.

Agree, but I also would like "some" buildingtime...Not just InstaWall...

But when it comes to ArmA's possibilities, I think what he did is Lame BUT possible. I would be pis*ed at him, but then again I also get pissed at those who shoot me inside spawn on a CTF, but then again it's possible and I just have to get skilled enough to do the same towards them.

A kick and/or ban is a little drastic but fair if it brakes server rules AND he is warned.

I think it's also a good thing he brought it up, then maybe we can get a solution to this (just like anti-spawn killing scripts) and then eventually a better Warfare.

Of course can't BIS think of every possible aspect in a mission, but in this case, they can easily fix a work-around. Since buldingtime and a check if enemy is present, would stop the worst cases, but not all.

Best retard NoBrainer

[Rocco 0]

it should take 10 min+ to build those sandbags ingame and they should be limited, let´s say 5m around the camp.

and i agree that you´ve been kicked/banned, using exploits intentionally doesnt need a warning.