Fix ArmA choppers now!

[william1 0]

why don't include an option in difficulty settings? :

-flight model simplified (OFP)

-flight model advanced (Arma)

and everybody happy (including me)

Quote[/b] ]but about every other month, some idiot will start a new thread saying OFP was more realistic

don't know if it was more realistic , but i liked more at least

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Nobody wants:

- OFP flight model back.

- Turn ArmA into a Flight Simulator.

---

What "we" want:

- More realistic rudder control.(More real, like reported by pilots and crew)

- More realistic combat landing simulation.

---

Just two "missing" features.

MfG Lee

[Tankbuster 1746]

Nobody wants:

- OFP flight model back.

- Turn ArmA into a Flight Simulator.

---

What "we" want:

- More realistic rudder control.(More real, like reported by pilots and crew)

- More realistic combat landing simulation.

---

Just two "missing" features.

MfG Lee

+1

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Couple of days ago i did my first LOOP and ROLL

with a MH6...Ive played ArmA since the dawn of

it...

It takes time to learn the things you can do in

this game...

I have no idea what a RL chopper is like in handling

but i find the gameversion pretty nice..

[Megahurt 0]

Im not a licenced chopper pilot, i shoulda said that. Im a licenced fixed wing pilot. Cessnas etc.

I just flew all over Cape Town SA with a helo pilot (in a cessna) from Austrailia and i grilled the guy on when the rudder cuts out etc. He told me he could get it to turn sideways and slew up to 80 mph.

I know most of the guys like infantry but you gotta get to the fight some how.

Im really pretty surprised about how good some guys claim to be able to fly these Arma choppers and id like one of them to take me for a ride. Id like to see it for myself and then shut up about it.

I think there is a few great suggestions made in this thread:

1) have 2 FM options, easy like ofp or hard like Arma

or

2)increase the speed at which the rudder negates and toughen the airframe for landings.

If any body knows how to tinker with the .cfg to get those things happening, please let me know.

As for Arma not being a flight sim, if its available as part of the game, it should be the best it can be shouldn't it?

[hailstorm 4]

It's a great thing that a lot of people don't like the aircraft handling - I for one being one of them - but I've said this before, and I'll say it now: as much as BI would like to change the helicopter flight model, I doubt they are going to do it without solid evidence that what they have now is wrong.

case in point: the whole rudder effectiveness change (for fixed-wing aircraft) was the result of This Thread. 6 pages of arguments and counter-arguments (plus countless E-mails behind the scenes), till I got fed up and posted a video of me proving (in real life) that it could be done, halfway down page 6. that got everyone's attention, and also proved i wasn't full of it.

my suggestion to those who are supporting this change and are ACTUAL helicopter pilots, is to film yourself flying sideways above 50kmh, or conducting a rudder turn, or whatever you're disputing. the forums are already filled with people who think they know all kinds of claptrap about aircraft physics, and the nice people at BI have a hard time deciding who is and isn't telling the truth. Anecdotes and web page links just don't seem to cut it around here.

To all the people telling us to go home and play FSX if we don't like it, ArmA was never advertised as an 'infantry simulator' and it's so goddamn annoying when that term keeps cropping up everywhere. just because infantry players are in the majority here, don't mean they're right 100% of the time. dump your "like it or lump it" attitude. we're just trying to make this game/combat simulator better.

Also, to people who are going "oh you just need to learn how to fly" haven't got much going for them either. The OP does not "need to adapt". Just because people can 're-train' to fly, does not mean the flight model is right, and i don't see how that is even a justification in any way.

[Rommel 2]

Couple of days ago i did my first LOOP and ROLL

with a MH6...Ive played ArmA since the dawn of

it...

Dear Dear... I did that in first 2Hours?!! Simple Push A and Q and then just make sure you adjust so it don't fall down... tried OFPs the other day... its shocking, you could fly at 1m above ground and never crash, and do full turns on that height withtout fear, in ArmA, you have to watch your height and the list goes on and on.

The landings in ArmA need fixing though, the blades are stronger then its wheels, I can land a helicopter on a helicopters blades, but the chopper on top will take damage from a """hard""" landing, same with the ground.

(I had a video on uTube, but lost it...)

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Yes Hailstorm, that's a nice idea.

And when we want to get the "tank drives in water and explodes" 'bug' fixed, we simple rent a tank and drive it into the water and proof that it do not explode?

Just joking.

I can fly extremly well with arma's helicopters and I love it.

It's just those two points that could be improved.

MfG Lee

[PuFu 4600]

first of all i do like ppl creating threads with this kind of topic, demanding stuff....well done, that will surely get attention!

Secondly, saying OFP flying models were better than arma, and just that is rubbish. OFP was a lot simpler and easier. This is not a flying sim, and all of you who thinks it is are very wrong. Besides, the current set does work, especially if you are using a joystick and NOT mouse + kbd. I can do almost everything that i want with a chopper i and really enjoy it. Please do not change it and make it easier. It would be good to have a learning curve, like it is now. In fact i really feel that some aircrafts are way to sensitive atm, like the harrier for instance...

I agree on the survivability of the aircrafts, especially the choppers. It should be a lot better, crash-landing now, with the built in auto-rotation is a mess. But i know some MODs have that sorted, and it works a lot better.

[walker 0]

And when we want to get the "tank drives in water and explodes" 'bug' fixed, we simple rent a tank and drive it into the water and proof that it do not explode?

Hi all

Sorry cannot resist.

Here in Real life.

Drive any vehicle into water so deep it gets into the engine compartment and afterwards Tankie, Car, Truck or whatever no workie probably ever again.

Water above crew compartment; well tanks, cars, trucks are not submarines; so crew drownie dead. Tank crews find it very hard to escape a sinking tank, ditto cars.

Exeption those vehicles equiped to wade can go into water as deep as their designed wade height.

I agree the vehicle should rarely explode on submerging. Instead it should just stop working and the crew be set to dead but exploding the vehicle has the same effect and has no other effect on the game. So while it is graphicaly questionable, what with the flash and the bang and the smoke; it is basicly correct for in-game effect on entities.

Untill there are a new set of vehicle destruction options we can live with exploding tanks. That said this is probably modable.

Kind Regards walker

[kuIoodporny 45]

And when we want to get the "tank drives in water and explodes" 'bug' fixed, we simple rent a tank and drive it into the water and proof that it do not explode?

Hi all

Sorry cannot resist.

Here in Real life.

Drive any vehicle into water so deep it gets into the engine compartment and afterwards Tankie, Car, Truck or whatever no workie probably ever again.

Water above crew compartment; well tanks, cars, trucks are not submarines; so crew drownie dead. Tank crews find it very hard to escape a sinking tank, ditto cars.

Exeption those vehicles equiped to wade can go into water as deep as their designed wade height.

I agree the vehicle should rarely explode on submerging. Instead it should just stop working and the crew be set to dead but exploding the vehicle has the same effect and has no other effect on the game. So while it is graphicaly questionable, what with the flash and the bang and the smoke; it is basicly correct for in-game effect on entities.

Untill there are a new set of vehicle destruction options we can live with exploding tanks. That said this is probably modable.

Kind Regards walker

Just joking.

I hope that ArmA 2 would have this fixed.

Pull that "oldschool" hitpoint based damage system out of the game, and both problems may get fixed. [edit: vehicle parts & crew damaged indepentently... cooool]

About flight model - ArmA is better than OFP, but far from ideal. Dot.

Also I have a question about driver's survivability in destroyed Bradley in OFP: how was it done?

[Bad Pilot 0]

I've never flown an OFP helicopter but it sounds like the gayest experience ever.

Arma's heli flight model and controls are great - not realistic in a sophisticated sense but good enough to allow those with skill and finesse (and a goddam joystick) to strut their stuff.

Fenix out.

[monty67t 0]

So you're saying that you need a joystick to fly with skill and finesse in ArmA? I've been using a keyboard and mouse since OFP came out and I would put my flying skills up against anybody's in the community, joystick or keyboard.

If you never flew in OFP then you shouldn't judge it. That's like me judging the way grenades work in TF2 even though I've never played the game.

The ArmA flight model is bettern than OFP's flight model in many ways. However, the ability to perform a pedal turn at speed and the ability to do landings at a realistic decent rate are two things that will hopefully be addressed in ArmA 2. Those are my only two complaints about the flight model in ArmA. It has nothing to do with it being easier or harder, that's not the discussion here.

[Daniel 0]

Yeah, I think i see your point now Monty. I was just so chuffed that ArmA got rid of the "rails" feeling of OFP.

But yeah, actually being able to do real life, tactical procedures should be priority. And like Lee said, if that means adjusting the tail rotor settings, so be it. Nobody loses out. :P

Also agree with Rommel though: while OFP seemed great at the time, it is pretty laughable when you go back to it from ArmA...

[Bad Pilot 0]

I'm saying that joysticks are specialised flying controls and if you're actually into it you probably have one. I bow and LOL @ at proficient keyboard pilots.

My opinion of OFP flying is valid: it sounds like driving a car with traction-control rather than piloting a helicopter. My *point* is that flying in Arma is not broken to the extent it is in OFP: it's great fun if you're any good. Practice makes perfect.

I didn't address the heavy-landing damage issue because the answer to that in most cases is to do a light landing, I got the impression that the thread instigator couldn't manage a light landing from a starting height of zero... Yes, it'd be a Good Thing to make landings more survivable. Similarly, I'd also like the ability to knock enemy aircraft out of the sky by 'landing' on them in mid air, whether that's realistic or not. At the moment, I die just about every time I try it.

-Fenix out.

[Daniel 0]

Heh, I use my joystick for everything except flying choppers in ArmA.

[kuIoodporny 45]

Daniel @ April 27 2008,18:11)]Heh, I use my joystick for everything except flying choppers in ArmA.  

My new PC has no gameport, so I can't use my old Logitech anymore xD I just got used to keyboard&mouse.

[dmitri 0]

I fly the darn thing and the helos are still terrible. Why cant they just make the flight model like OFP. They had it so perfect there and you could perform all the manouvers and flight ops fantastically.

As for Arma not being a flight sim, if its available as part of the game, it should be the best it can be shouldn't it?

Pretty big contradiction there. ArmA's flight model is clearly a move towards realism, away from OFP's obviously arcade FM.

[Rommel 2]

And when we want to get the "tank drives in water and explodes" 'bug' fixed, we simple rent a tank and drive it into the water and proof that it do not explode?

Hi all

Sorry cannot resist.

Here in Real life.

Drive any vehicle into water so deep it gets into the engine compartment and afterwards Tankie, Car, Truck or whatever no workie probably ever again.

Water above crew compartment; well tanks, cars, trucks are not submarines; so crew drownie dead. Tank crews find it very hard to escape a sinking tank, ditto cars.

Exeption those vehicles equiped to wade can go into water as deep as their designed wade height.

I agree the vehicle should rarely explode on submerging. Instead it should just stop working and the crew be set to dead but exploding the vehicle has the same effect and has no other effect on the game. So while it is graphicaly questionable, what with the flash and the bang and the smoke; it is basicly correct for in-game effect on entities.

Untill there are a new set of vehicle destruction options we can live with exploding tanks. That said this is probably modable.

Kind Regards walker

But what if I bailed the tank about a minute before it was deeply enough submergerged, which I'm sure anyone who could... would. And half way back swimming to shore... it explodes and dies? Pirahna's maybe? Poisonous fuel leak... didn't think so.

OFPs flight model in comparison to ArmA, is that (with the latest patches anyway) you have less stability, more control over the aircraft and its heading, no terrain following.

Aerobatics have never been easier.

You can roll easily with your keyboard... OFP, it wasn't as easy, but still quite possible.

The flight model in regarding helicopters is they are incredibly frail, however, in OFP, you couldn't even land a helicopter at speed, ArmA, you can atleast survive... so theres extremes, just a tad annoying at the small landings, that whilst there is reason to BIS's damage madness, it is a tad excessive in vertical landings.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

I don't have many issues with ArmA helicopters. There are probably "manouvers" you can't do here, but to me they appear to work for what they where designed to do; getting units to the battlefield. Much better than OFP flight model anyway.

Maybe they could take more beating upon a hard landing, but learning to land properly seems like a better solution. Currently they endure far to much even when pilot bails out from 100-200 m AGL, and they don't disintegrate upon ground contact, they "land" far too often.

It seems logical to me that this is a matter of game balance because the engine may not allow further refinement; make helis need repairs upon a hard landing versus heli survivability when crashing without a pilot.

Controls are a bit arcadish, anyone would have to admit to that. But few would be able to fly helicopters if the flight model were 100% to real life. As a consequence, the flight model has to be tuned to the current desired controls. No way would anyone be able to control a 100% flight model using keyboard alone. If I want something more realistic, I turn to FSX which has better modelled, but by far not 100%.

ArmA is still a game, a game which has to appeal to a wide audience, not only hard core simulation enthusiasts.

[LeftSkidLow 1]

Quote[/b] ]my suggestion to those who are supporting this change and are ACTUAL helicopter pilots, is to film yourself flying sideways above 50kmh, or conducting a rudder turn, or whatever you're disputing.

I MIGHT be able to do this, but I don't really have huge issues with the tail rotor, I think it could be better, but it doesn't really affect what you can do ingame. The problem is a) I have to do it a student pilot's dime or b) I have to do it by myself at $200+ an hour and thats a maneuver I'm not willing to do without both hands on the controls. Also I will have to get the speed indications of the groundspeed on the GPS, because the airspeed indicator will be inaccurate sideways, and my only camera is a cell phone.

[ModeZt 0]

The current control system is just perfect.

I love it. I can do almost everything with a chopper. Sometimes it's really hard to perform some maneuver and that gives more emotions to the good virtual pilot ))

I'm using kbd+mouse to fly and the only thing I did was redefining the keyboard and mouse actions. ( bf2-style )

[Noraf 0]

i'd say +1 for getting rid of the auto center...

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

why don't include an option in difficulty settings? :

-flight model simplified (OFP)

-flight model advanced (Arma)

and everybody happy (including me)  

Quote[/b] ]but about every other month, some idiot will start a new thread saying OFP was more realistic

don't know if it was more realistic , but i liked more at least

If this were implemented, this problem would be solved. Period. Let everybody choose for himself. Isn't "pro choice" what OFP/ArmA is all about?

[monty67t 0]

The flight model is hard coded into the game. I think this is why we don't see many changes in general. I think making an option to choose the flight model is way out of the question. I mean, if we can't get the tail rotor and survivability fixed, we're definately not going to get an option to choose between flight models.

@Rommel

In OFP I could make roll on landings at a much higher speed and faster decent rate and take absolutely no damage at all.