Weapon handling, whats need to be next gen?

[Frank-O 0]

stagger the defensive line so ejecting cartridges don't hit your buddy. Sounds pretty next gen to me. Haven't seen that before.

Don't know about you, but being hit with a couple of spent 5.56 or 7.62 rounds on your left side hurt. God help you if it goes down your collar.

Maybe not death, but dang you'll wiggle fast.

Also a mad dash to grab the FN200 or the unapproved Kel-Tec RFB, both of which eject the cartridge frontside.

Trying to stay back on topic, Non-linear drop off. muzzle velocity of rounds tend to travel mostly straight for 150m-250m before the drop-off increases exponentially. Any chance of this bullet behavior instead of the constant drop off rate?

Switching primary hands for going around left and right side of walls? Difficult?

[Lou Montana 101]

Switching primary hands for going around left and right side of walls?  Difficult?

In (reaaaaaally) old previews of "Game2", they said left and right-handed will be... handed by the game.

I think official website need a bit refresh, because we don't have true words from official source, not even about 4 campaigns included the MP one.

A new guy wanting infos about Arma 2 will only find 4 screens on www.arma2.com and there it is, all this website and screens copyrighted from 2007, last news from august...

Bring some official news on official website, at least some confirmed features (shooting from vehicles, campaigns, ...) ?

[Frank-O 0]

shooting from air vehicles is so useless, maybe only available when you're hovering. Try using freelook when you're a passenger on a MOVING helo and aim a wpn. Forget it.

Shooting from Trucks or APC's, like the BMP slots for rifles would be nice...esp if you can rest your wpn on the railing or slot hole

[NoRailgunner 0]

Shooting with rifles from any moving or flying vehicle you have to compensate all kind of vibrations from vehicle itself and terrain too.

As mentioned - if player can do such things AI should be able too and those things aren't so easy to implement.

[stakex 0]

I agree with the above statement.

I dont understand why BIS are adding so much graphical Buff when even with the best mods for ARMA i still dont feel like im in a battlefield

This is EXACTLLY the problem with ArmA and likely to be the problem with ArmA2.

Since OFP the graphics of the engine have improved amazingly... yet the game play part of the engine have seen only minor chages, and in reality when it comes to ArmA we are simply playing a graphicly modded OFP. Which is fine, since thats all ArmA1 was suppose to be. But ArmA2 was suppose to be the true OFP sequal, and not just a beefed up version of the original game (that was ArmAs job). And right now, it is looking more and more like ArmA2 is going to simply be a modded ArmA1. Obviouslly that could be wrong, and I hope so... but apparent lack of any major engine improvements aside from graphics and AI is not looking good.

As the topic brings to attention the weapon handling is exactlly as it was in OFP... and it wasn't so great in OFP that it shouldn't have been touched. In fact, there are so many things missing and messed up with the weapon system, it really should have been one of the main priorities to be fixed... yet there seems to have been very little attention paid to this area.

This is just the tip of the ice burg really, and is far from the only area that has been in desparate need of attention since OFP.... the physcis engine is very old and needs to be replaced, yet we have heard its not going to be changed at all really. The vehicle destruction system is terrible and should be replaced... and while it was originaly stated vehicles will have dynamic destruction its likely this is no longer the case (tho nothing official yet). Character movements are overly choppy and make moveing in tight areas very difficult, yet there seems to be no fix for this at least not in the build in the latest videos.

These are just a couple areas the game engine has not improved since OFP, and really needs to if there is a future for the series...

[Lou Montana 101]

Well the truth is we don't know if all they promised long time ago for Game2 will be, even partially, in Arma 2.

They said before dynamic destruction, now we know it won't be, but for all the rest of promises we have to... guess about.

I am not especially asking for "übershooting from vehicles", but news indeed.

We are crually in lack of official statement, at least some features and they were expressed in a gaming mag review.

I am not whining/asking for pics/vidz/OMGnieeuwzz, but think official Arma2 website needs fresh infos for new players, and potentially customers !

Edit : whooo, and as I was *a bit* offtopic, I add anyway my statement :

They said shooting from cargo positions will be available, (I'm waiting for official statement,) I think it can be fine in this game if done the good way ; as in real-life you can, and is not truly effective, being able to do so in game can't be a bad thing

[sluggCDN 0]

Totally agree with StakeX! Wweapons' inadequecy in ArmA is just a tip of an iceberg. It's an absolutely valid topic, but it's a topic among many other topics revolving around the subjecy of what ArmA2 needs, that which is lacking in ArmA1 now.

"ballistics, different ammunition types, weights of ammunition, characteristics of the weapons themselves..." (OFP2)

Is this really a quote from an artcile about OFP2? - because it sounds painfully similar to the heap of promises that BIS made to us about ArmA. Did they deliver? - hardly... how can we talk about realistic weapons balistics etc. when you have sniper rifles still shootign tracers in ArmA. And this is again just a random pick from the list of things that are wrong in ArmA.

What it will really come down to in the end is whether BIS or Codemasters will deliver on their promises. BIS has already failed, we'll see what Codemasters has up its sleeve. I'm sure ppl in BIS can see all the shortcomings we are talking about here on the forum. The sad part is whether they see any value in correcting these shortcomings. And what can be even sadder they might not even see them or want to hear or address them. I was just dumbstruck when I was listening to Suma's interview with JerryGrasshopper. Suma was asked about the lack of realistic battle/weapon sounds in ArmA and the fact that shots in ArmA sound like a marble dropped on the floor. And Suma just said he sees nothing wrong with the sounds in ArmA, "they serve the purpose..." as they are. If this is the vision that the copmany's leadership follows we cann't really expect any miracles, anything beyond what we've seen in ArmA1. I'm telling you Project 85 full conversion mod will probably have more character and juice then both ArmA1 and ArmA2 put together.

[Frank-O 0]

OK. Let's role play, and pretend that a BIS programmer has stumbled across this topic. What has been suggested?

Let's edit/vote on what is and what isn not Next Gen?

Summary;

Weapon Reload

-reload animation interruption

-animation replacing magazine and throwing away spent magazine

-animation speed reload

(spare magazine held in same hand as hand ejecting magazine. Bullet for bolt action rifles)

-animation pulling bolt back

-animation tactical reload (spent magazine is put back in inventory and not thrown out)

-animation emptying magazine and cleaning barrel

Weapon Recoil

-possibility of lateral recoil instead of just vertical

Weapon Support

-animation deploying bipod.

(tighter grouping, Side rolling when prone would remove wpn from use. Not using bipod allows you to keep wpn when side rolling when prone)

-grip location

--barrel

--magazine

--none (one handed)

--left and right wall bracing (if right handed, wall bracing on left corner would mean firing one handed)

--resting wpn barrel/bipod on sandbag wall top/ window sill/ chair/ table

--wrapping hand around carrying strap.

RL non-reloadable wpn kept non-reloadable in game

Grenade throwing

-pin held

-pin out and whisper counting

-bounce throws (skipping stone)

-short throws (for around corners, thru doors)

-bouncing

Weapon jamming

-animation wpn jamming

-animation loading jamming

-animation wpn inspection and re-use Wpn Reload animation pulling bolt back

-animation wiping wpn after proximity to explosion/helicopters

Sight Calibration

-animation calibrating sights

-animation flipping caps open/closed

-animation wiping lens

Ammo flight affected by

-surpressors (or silencers for the general public)

-ammo type

-barrel length

-non-linear drop off

-non-laser like drift and grouping

Weapon weight

-affects wpn grouping

-affects encumberance and fatigue

Fatigue

-animation of dragging wpn

-animation changing slung shoulder

-animation wiping sweat from brow

-animation coughing and panting

Static

-cradle (baby hold)

-barrel up (pointing north)

-barrel down (minsweeper)

-over shoulder (hobo)

-bar behind neck (crucification)

-vertical chest down

Barrel change

-animation barrel change (CQB, overheating, sniper length)

-animation adding surpressor

-animation removing surpressor

Cartridge Eject

-cartridge ejection random rotation on ejection (currently linear)

-chance of burning damage on those struck

Backblast

-fire damage from back of firing launcher

-chance of concussion when fired inside building.

Ricochet's potential lethality

Firing position

-unaimed overhead

-leaning forward

-hip firing

-one handed firing

-knee braced when kneeling

Firing animation

-random lighting levels from barrel tip

-weapon deformation (rattling AK vs G36)

[SHWiiNG 0]

Thats a very good summary, well BIS, the rest is up to you.

[Heatseeker 0]

Thats just plain ridiculous, im sorry.

I think realism is important and we should all apply realism and racional thinking to our posts.

You will not find a fps like that and definetly not find a game that combines infantry and vehicles with such high level of fidelity all around.

I certainly dont want to wait 5 more years for Arma II.

[SHWiiNG 0]

ok, mabe my comment was a bit much but DEFINATE features should be the weapon animations, tactical reloads, and jams.

These features are in games over 6 years old. therefore it will be a downright shame if these features were not implemented at the very least

[CarlGustaffa 4]

If using again M16 and M4s, they could have higher jam ratios on those, and also include a HK416 which would be less prone to jamming. That is, a weapon specific jam system

[Frank-O 0]

I've already mentioned the US Army stress test with 10 rifles of each kind, and;

M16/M4 0.5% (lubricated)

1.47% (unlubricated)

HK416 0.38%

FN-SCAR 0.37%

XM8 0.21%

3 tests using 10 rifles each, 6,000 rounds in a dirty/dusty environment.

That translates to a (statistically avg) 1 jam in every;

2 clips for a M16/M4

6 clips for a lubricated M16/M4

8 clips for a HK416

9 clips for a FN-SCAR

15 clips for a XM8

***

I'm not certain which mod did it, but the likeliest candidate was ECS.

Gun jam. M4 silencer. Had action menu to clear it. took a while too while I was hiding from the SLA patrols.

Run ECS guys.

[Heatseeker 0]

OK, i took a small trip back to the old game and it feels better without the zoom on sights.

I know this was an OPF:Elite thing because low resolution console gaming makes it hard to see things at the distance.. but in Arma i always feel like im sniping .

[Second 0]

[edit] Loads of cow's shite that was. [/edit]

[Frank-O 0]

Hey Second. If this is an attempt at mocking us, it's a poor job. Your post makes no sense, your english is way off. And does anyone think this wiseguy is funny? Stay off the forums if you don't have anything constructive to say.

[Second 0]

[edit] Loads of cow's shite that was. [/edit]

[Heatseeker 0]

It would be kind of nice if MG barrels simulated overheating, basically they would make the (L)MG's loose acuracy if abused too much (continuous fire).

I think this is a reasonable request .

[Frank-O 0]

@Second

First off it's not "my list", it's a summary of all those who've posted before. Yes some are mine, but I was thinking of collecting all the suggestions posted before, so it's more pallatable to digest for BIS to consider yea or nay. So what you're saying is basically, "you're all stupid, stop posting when asked".

Stop thinking like George Bush and be such a narrow minded arrogant #%$@. Give BIS programmers the benefit of the doubt, and let them decide if a feature is worthy enough of including in Arma2 without delaying release another 2 quarters.

Time is precious, and isn't is faster to go thru the group summary than 2.5 pages of posts, which obviously you've done, or else you wouldn't of accused me as opposed to the group of the suggestions?

[Second 0]

Okay... [checks posts]... I'll draw my words back and say this:

I'm deeply sorry. My bad

[leehy 0]

it will same weapon handling likes OFP1.

still dont match gun&hand postion in ARMA2 screen shot

i recommend HL2 INS mod. this is perfect scope system and reloading animation and weapon system.

[SaBrE_UK 0]

still dont match gun&hand postion in ARMA2 screen shot

They do now, at least in combat stance.