Physics

[sniper pilot 36]

...But that still feels a lil a lil "weightless" and oddly slow compared to one game I've played that I cant remember)

Then how do you know you played it if you can't remember?

I think the whole engine needs to be redone. I mean, yes there will always be limitations, but the fact that they are still going with the same engine just building upon it... is you know... Anyways what BIS, imho, should work on is Engine Dynamics.

Heres an Idea:

Split the Engine into a modules to make Addon making easier and not everything is set in stone as it seems today. (AKA without going in and having to redo all the code just to add a simple gameplay action shooting from vehicles...)

The Weapon Module:

Where you can easily change the variables of a weapon with ease:

(below example is simplified, we would obviously need a wider range of adjustments to be able fully mod a weapon into the game)

In the yellow boxes you could change the value, etc.

You could do that with the, physics module, Vehicle module, AI module, Gear module, Weapon Mods module, the list could go on!

BIS, again imho, should have the goal for their games to be community made, developer helped, and as partners we can make this game the best that ever walked the planet!

Maybe I should apply at the PR job at BIS

[TrunkzJr 0]

Here's a video I made. I'd rather have Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man then Super Dave Osborne soldiers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKCTwwAFTZM

[baddo 0]

BIS, again imho, should have the goal for their games to be community made, developer helped

Hell no!

Sorry if I sound blunt but that's just not going to work.

I've said this earlier and I say it again: you either buy a game engine or you buy a game. I buy games, not game engines made by BIS. Changing their business plan so dramatically now could very well end up in a disaster.

If game development is really what you want to do then there are for example free open-source components which you can use to start making your own games, even commercial games, if that's what you really want to be doing.

I'm sorry to say this but so many of the addons released, even if people worked very long and hard on them, are nowhere near the professional quality which BIS is able to reach. There are exceptions but the general rule is that addon makers do not reach professional quality level. I certainly do appreciate a lot the work people put into creating addons, but quite often the content doesn't fit well into the game OFP/ArmA because quality is not good enough and the quality difference to the original content is too big to be acceptable. Solution is definitely not to have all content created by the community.

Again, I'm sorry I had to say this but that's how it is in reality.

About the topic physics. I think ragdoll physics could fix a problem I have been somewhat annoyed of when playing ArmA: dead bodies can have their feet high up in the air or something similar, depending on the location they happen to be in. Does not look natural at all. More natural would be if the body would follow the ground. This could maybe be achieved with a ragdoll-type death, restricted and dampened movement so that it doesn't look stupid as others here have said can be a problem, and then the body would settle to follow the ground and after that the whole ragdoll physics for the unit could be turned off.

[SWAT_BigBear 0]

Physics physics - boom boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

Very nice work!

[sniper pilot 36]

BIS, again imho, should have the goal for their games to be community made, developer helped

Hell no!

Sorry if I sound blunt but that's just not going to work.

I've said this earlier and I say it again: you either buy a game engine or you buy a game. I buy games, not game engines made by BIS. Changing their business plan so dramatically now could very well end up in a disaster.

If game development is really what you want to do then there are for example free open-source components which you can use to start making your own games, even commercial games, if that's what you really want to be doing.

I'm sorry to say this but so many of the addons released, even if people worked very long and hard on them, are nowhere near the professional quality which BIS is able to reach. There are exceptions but the general rule is that addon makers do not reach professional quality level. I certainly do appreciate a lot the work people put into creating addons, but quite often the content doesn't fit well into the game OFP/ArmA because quality is not good enough and the quality difference to the original content is too big to be acceptable. Solution is definitely not to have all content created by the community.

Again, I'm sorry I had to say this but that's how it is in reality.

About the topic physics. I think ragdoll physics could fix a problem I have been somewhat annoyed of when playing ArmA: dead bodies can have their feet high up in the air or something similar, depending on the location they happen to be in. Does not look natural at all. More natural would be if the body would follow the ground. This could maybe be achieved with a ragdoll-type death, restricted and dampened movement so that it doesn't look stupid as others here have said can be a problem, and then the body would settle to follow the ground and after that the whole ragdoll physics for the unit could be turned off.

You didn't get my point pal, I meant, The game should be completely open to mod, Crysis states that it is, and Crysis is not just an engine. Thats what I meant by community made, I SHOULD of said Community Accessible.

And are you kidding?! BAS', Laser's, etc are 50 times better in quality, and usefulness than what BIS supplied in OFP, and already ArmA Addons WITH OUT THE TOOLS are becoming better than Bohemia's. If you can't see that, then im sorry too.

[-Puma- 2]

Physics physics - boom boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

heeeeeeeeere we go....

thats just cool

[jtec 0]

Physics physics - boom boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

Any idea if or when it wil be released mate? Looks very interesting, and looked like some form of rag doll physics were used on the bodies of the men?

[Jack-UK 0]

Physics physics - boom boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

Any idea if or when it wil be released mate?  Looks very interesting, and looked like some form of rag doll physics were used on the bodies of the men?

I dont think there was any ragdoll on the men.. they had the same death animation, the video was cut at the end of each anim and showed again with another explosion

The hummer explosion looked IMMENSE though Nice one

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Any idea if or when it wil be released mate? Looks very interesting, and looked like some form of rag doll physics were used on the bodies of the men?

It's using the same method the guys in the FLK mod used in Flashpoint. Swap the original object for some broken bits and apply a little velocity. But it does look nice.

[jtec 0]

boy oh boy...... its it nice to make people happy?

there is more for you 'boom boom' lovers....

More Physics, More Boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

Jeftec : ill tell you when the release is right after my interview with pukf

ok mate. If you are looking for Messiah at the moment he is currently unavailable due to lack of internet connection.

The vids are great by the way, although be nice to add other models to the damaged models!

[baddo 0]

You didn't get my point pal, I meant, The game should be completely open to mod, Crysis states that it is, and Crysis is not just an engine. Thats what I meant by community made, I SHOULD of said Community Accessible.

And are you kidding?! BAS', Laser's, etc are 50 times better in quality, and usefulness than what BIS supplied in OFP, and already ArmA Addons WITH OUT THE TOOLS are becoming better than Bohemia's. If you can't see that, then im sorry too.

Yes you used wrong words friend That is why I say I got your point exactly like you said it.

And no I am not kidding about the quality of addons. I said "general rule is" and I stand behind my words. Trust me I have seen enough addons to make a judgement that I rather take the stuff BIS makes than wait for community created content, as I know which gives me a better game. I should've said in my previous post also that even if the visual quality of an addon is better than the visual quality of original BIS units, it does not automatically mean that the addon is better than the BIS stuff. There is more to quality than just the visual side. One major problem is that the configuration values are chosen for user-created content as those individuals wish, and cooperation between addon makers is non-existant. As a result we get community-created addons which are not good when used against each other, or against BIS-created units, because of inbalanced configuration values. This is a well-known problem. Inside BIS that problem should not exist as they can actually have some organization and standards, which is unlikely to happen between a random bunch of independent addon makers. To summarize my point in this post, a significant problem with user-created content is that in general it doesn't fit well together to original content or to other user-created content.

[Saden 0]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all

The Ragdoll physics you see in games does not happen here in reality. So why would we want to waste CPU on unrealistic physics. A shot that would move a body like in the holywood movies or unrealistic games like Battle Field would in reality just tear a chunk of the body and the body would just fall to the ground in much same way as it does in ArmA.

The flying bodies ragdoll rubish just never happens. Standard weapons right up to Uber sniper rifles do not kick a body about.

Bodys fall when shot dead.

That is all.

Except for wounding where they often do not even fall and may not even be aware they were shot.

Kind Regards walker

Also, if you are hit by a bullt, you're going to hit the ground, and you're going to feel it unless you're high off coke and other drugs.

[TrunkzJr 0]

Physics physics - boom boom!

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....om.html

o man that looks awesome. It's not soldiers i don't think but for vechs to have SOMETHING is better then nothing.

[rundll.exe 12]

About ppl bashing the physics:

They arent that bad, but a lot is missing. (friction being the most anoying)

ArmAs colission detection has improved 300% and you can test that. Setpos yourself in the back of a civ Offroad, and let an AI drive. You will slide off until you hit the sides and you actually move! without scripts

You can hardly shoot because of the animations changing all the time for some reason, and it only works standing (anyone have an idea why?)

It is also fun with small objects like the computer and setpos that in the back of the offroad. It behaves quite realistic, but friction isnt there again.)

[jtec 0]

And are you kidding?! BAS', Laser's, etc are 50 times better in quality, and usefulness than what BIS supplied in OFP, and already ArmA Addons WITH OUT THE TOOLS are becoming better than Bohemia's. If you can't see that, then im sorry too.

Yes you used wrong words friend That is why I say I got your point exactly like you said it.

And no I am not kidding about the quality of addons. I said "general rule is" and I stand behind my words. Trust me I have seen enough addons to make a judgement that I rather take the stuff BIS makes than wait for community created content, as I know which gives me a better game. I should've said in my previous post also that even if the visual quality of an addon is better than the visual quality of original BIS units, it does not automatically mean that the addon is better than the BIS stuff. There is more to quality than just the visual side. One major problem is that the configuration values are chosen for user-created content as those individuals wish, and cooperation between addon makers is non-existant. As a result we get community-created addons which are not good when used against each other, or against BIS-created units, because of inbalanced configuration values. This is a well-known problem. Inside BIS that problem should not exist as they can actually have some organization and standards, which is unlikely to happen between a random bunch of independent addon makers. To summarize my point in this post, a significant problem with user-created content is that in general it doesn't fit well together to original content or to other user-created content.

What would be a great idea would be to have a pdf copy that all addon teams can download that has a full list of Armour and weapon values along with weights, speed and fuel values. This list would have to be based on real life values and could be used as a guideline that we all could abide by. I know PUKF would abide by such a list if someone was to research each vehicle/weapon correctly. Its a simple yet very effective idea but needs someone with the time to do the research. May be the best time to start this by the way, before the first wave of models become available when the official tools are released.

[max power 21]

Also, if you are hit by a bullt, you're going to hit the ground, and you're going to feel it unless you're high off coke and other drugs.

Not true at all.

[sniper pilot 36]

@Baddo

Yeah you bring up a very good point, what we need to do is promote the communication of addon makers, which in my opinion, wont be hard.

Why?

Well because I believe that no one has actually initiated, i dont think anyones too proud to not work with other people.

[jtec 0]

Lets just call the system Arv (arma reality values) for example:

The pdf could then list all vehicles (maybe just in use currently, with the rest (ww1/2 etc) branching out later on.

You could have each catorgory lets just say British for example and list all current systems in use.

Example

Chally 2

landrover

Mastiff

blah blah blah

With each value as close to real life as it should be. We (PUKF) could then take the values and add it to our models and then advertise our use of the ARV values. Im sure you would get loads of teams using a ARV system if it is promoted enough on sites and listed in these forums.

[MehMan 0]

That's something I was thinking about yesterday before going to bed. I've always been annoyed how a lot of WW2 addons that wre great were not compatible with each other and you were left to rely on full mods to get the balance and fun out of tank battles.

[andersson 285]

With OFP it always ended with the diskussion about realistic vs playability.

I trusted WGL (or ACE today)

[da12thMonkey 1943]

Lets just call the system Arv (arma reality values) for example:

The pdf could then list all vehicles (maybe just in use currently, with the rest (ww1/2 etc) branching out later on.

You could have each catorgory lets just say British for example and list all current systems in use.

Example

Chally 2

landrover

Mastiff

blah blah blah

With each value as close to real life as it should be. We (PUKF) could then take the values and add it to our models and then advertise our use of the ARV values. Im sure you would get loads of teams using a ARV system if it is promoted enough on sites and listed in these forums.

Jef mate, there was an initiative to create such a system for OFP but never really took off due to the amount of pre-existing community-made armour that would need standardising. The project was called CAVS (Common Armour Value System or some shite like that).

The concept was good though and CAVS was taken into the care of the COMBAT! mod along with JAM and ACES so that there could be some standardisation in ArmA, shared among the teams that were creating Germany 85: LLW, RHS, CSLA, BWMod and COMBAT!

I dunno what's up with the development of G85, at the moment though. Most of the teams there are as quiet as us at UKF and the rest of the old, established addon groups; no doubt for similar reasons to our own.

Might be worth making contact with someone there though to discuss whether the CAVS and JAM systems are still going ahead. Even though we declined their offer to join in making mid-80s kit with them back when the project went public, they should still know that we're committed to standardisation. Our strong support and commitment to JAM for OFP stands as proof of that.

[jtec 0]

Ahh never knew about that mate. Well its early days and like you say a lot of teams are sleepers while waiting for the official tools. Would be great if we could get this thing of the ground although i wouldnt know where to start on the values...

[snakefang 0]

I just want a game like ArmA but less buggy, and heavily moddable!! (I made that word up...Moddable..try it out sometime guys.)

Sounds like HL2. I mean look at Insurrgency, or whatever, its very realistic, even more so then ArmA in some reagons, and its got TONS of mods. Very easy to work with.

As for physics, yes, i would enjoy shooting a guy and not watching him fall over THE EXACT SAME WAY the other 10 guys before him did. I would enjoy seeing the car i just nudged not get nocked off a couple of kicks to my left for no real reason. Id love my harrier to not BOUNCE off trees as it crash lands.

But hay as they said, it might make the game EVEN MORE BUGGY.

JOTR anyone?-For those that did play it, you could run threw walls if you knew how to, without hacks...

[jerryhopper 286]

OMG GUYS!

raggdoll raggdoll... its a friggen cloth puppet!

what in HEAVENS name is wrong with the way a soldier falls in arma....

And as usual,  backed by a Video!

Boom Boom Physics - the beginning. this stuff dates from 2006

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....ng.html

Hell all that talk about effects, raggdoll...

it makes you ALMOST forget how beautifull  ARMA can be.

See beyond the raggdoll...

Take a trip in arma, a trip to Afghanistan....

http://www.armedassault.eu/Work-in....IP.html

- and remember folx!

 SahraniRadio+ArmedAssault.eu -> Ammo for your mind!

[MehMan 0]

I just want a game like ArmA but less buggy, and heavily moddable!! (I made that word up...Moddable..try it out sometime guys.)

Sounds like HL2.  I mean look at Insurrgency, or whatever, its very realistic, even more so then ArmA in some reagons, and its got TONS of mods.  Very easy to work with.

As for physics, yes, i would enjoy shooting a guy and not watching him fall over THE EXACT SAME WAY the other 10 guys before him did.  I would enjoy seeing the car i just nudged not get nocked off a couple of kicks to my left for no real reason.  Id love my harrier to not BOUNCE off trees as it crash lands.

But hay as they said, it might make the game EVEN MORE BUGGY.

JOTR anyone?-For those that did play it, you could run threw walls if you knew how to, without hacks...

The only problem with HL2 is the maps. And vehicle use.