A.i. skill.

[Heatseeker 0]

Please note that this is mostly about dificulty, not just if the a.i. is good or bad.

Consider Arma's environment, the weapons and gameplay, the a.i. , etc. Post examples if you want.

I've been playing alot lately and find it to be frustrating many times, alot more challenging than OPF, especially in more detailed Sahrani areas like the north.

Sights, ballistics and weapon configuration (in some cases) makes the game harder for the player but this dificulty increase is not simulated on the a.i. wich can snipe a player with an RPG from 500M+. Engagement ranges increased yet the standard blufor rifle has an aimdot on it.

Extra graphical detail also increased the dificulty alot. The a.i. is harder to spot in the more detailed environment but this concealment does not really conceal the player from a.i. "radars".

This is also apparent at night where HDR messes up my nvg's yet the a.i. sees perfectly, saboteur missions are no longer very playable.

[-HUNTER- 1]

HARD

Because its not undoable but then again its not easy aswell.

If the AI knows where you are, your best off moving quickly.

THE thing I dont like in ARMA is that the AI can see you thrue

trees and bushes, while you dont see him. And that sometimes

the AI shoots such good shots its unhuman allmost.

But the fact that Ive been outflanked and shot from behind several times is a tribute to the improved AI.

I was sniping during some EVO and I was shot from behind at point blank allmost.

How the hell that dude got behind me is a mistery but I got pwned baaaad..

[wamingo 1]

AI serves some frustratingly hard moments at times, but some pretty weak ones too. I wouldn't say one or the other since it depends on the situation.

It has some wacky abilities like pin-pointing you on sound at great distances, super precision accurac, can see through foliage with ease and such. But it also has some severe inabilities like not being able to fire at you while you're out of view and sitting still for way too long. Leaning, especially to the right, around a corner renders AI totally unable to fire back.

I would opt for a decrease in accuracy but also for some buffs like supressive fire on both in and out of view targets.

Either way, improvements can be done for sure.

Fighting in a forrest against AI is extremely hard. I don't know what others think of it, but imo without much cover to be had (trees make poor cover), it's just one of those fights I don't bother with at all unless there's very convenient respawn. They might as well be hanging in the trees.

[stryker555 0]

I say Hard as im basing my thoughts on the single player AI not coop.

The thing really with the hard enemy AI is their ease spraying you with rapid fire accurately without recoil or bullet spread affecting them, even their snipers pepper your with rapid auto fire like shots from SVDs which is unrealistic. In OFP combat from medium distance was pretty good as you and the OFP AI traded shot for shot until one of you died, firefights were longer and more rewarding in my opinion. I dont mind the enemy AI using tactics I applaud that but this no recoil/no bullet spread cheat from the AI is annoying.

Another thing is how ineffective BIS made the US AI which in my opinion borders on insult and makes the enemy AI seem hard. Again in OFP your US team mates were usually reliable, you help them and they help you. Even when your teammates were wiped out after an unsuccessful mission their corpses were scattered over the battlefield and not clumped together like the dumbass US AI in Arma even after a successful mission you just see their corpses lying right beside each other a testament to their deliberate dumbing down.

Still I have been able to complete many missions in Arma with only few saves compared to other games, one has to adapt and overcome, I have found out its best to shoot and move also stealth and tactics should be applied when dealing with enemy AI, patience is key.

My problem with coop AI is their exceptional sonar hearing and vicious accuracy over long distance, these guys dont play at all.

I have many experience with the AI doing amazing things on evo like blasting me with deadly accuracy from 450 meters with a RPG, or after me shooting and scooting then running over a hill and hiding they still found me in a thick clump of bushes when I know they didnt see me go there, or another time im in a two story house in Masbete observing enemy troop strength through a window when all of a sudden one of the patrolling AI swings around and caps me in the head without even aiming properly. Lots of things sick with the coop AI they are something else I tell you.

SP AI = Hard

Coop AI = Frustrating

[NeMeSiS 11]

Hard, which i like, i made it slightly less hard by lowering the AI accuracy a bit and upping the AI skill to 1, which for me improves the immersion alot.

The ArmA AI is the only AI that scares me, the GRAW, STALKER and FC AI are very nice and their general behaviour adds to the immersion, yet its always clear what they are going to do. The ArmA AI kinda destroys its own immersion because you never know what they are doing which makes them look completely retarded, yet it is this what scares me. In other games you clearly see what the AI is doing, which makes them look smart (Look, that guy taking cover behind that tree! Look that guy is attacking me! ), in ArmA the AI constantly looks like they are completely lost (Where the hell is he going, the enemy isnt that way? Why is he laying there looking not directly at me, now its easy to flank him?)  while they are in fact doing something, you just dont know what.

The only thing that is clear is that they are flanking you, although that usually becomes clear after you are shot in the back, "Hurray for tunnelvision!".

[Heatseeker 0]

But the fact that Ive been outflanked and shot from behind several times is a tribute to the improved AI.

I was sniping during some EVO and I was shot from behind at point blank allmost.

Thats a good example, i have experienced this myself many times, well.. sometimes im so focused on the scope that i dont check my surroundings properly but its impressive, yes.

But on the other hand i find a.i. acuracy with simple weapons over distance exagerated and the same is true for their "capacity" to pinpoint the player's location at any situation.

Ex: Being RPG sniped in the head from 500+ meters after atacking them with a SPR rifle (one shot, one hit)... imagine how easily they can take out an APC.

I believe that the a.i. needs to know about their enemy to be "good" and the way BIS made them better was by increasing their detection capabilities. This is what gets them shooting and moving around.

I think that the way the a.i. is set up is not apropriate for the game.. considering all the changes, i feel cheated sometimes.

edit:

Thanks for the good posts so far guys .

[froggyluv 2136]

This has been discussed many times and overall i agree with you HS. I don't think BIS is going to do much about it so that leaves it to the mods.Firefights would be much more exhilirating if you could 'scare' Ai with MG spray and vice versa. It really boils down to lowering their accuracy and implementing a good suppresive system for both attacker and target.

[xnodunitx 0]

I'd say it varies, sometimes they can be easy, sometimes hard, furstrating and sometimes just plain foolish.

I don't usually have much trouble from AI, using landscape to best suit me needs. Usually when playing on (gasp) Evo, I'll go up with a fireteam and sit on a hill while another group moves in from below. But if I begin to draw the AI's attention to much I back up behind the hill so they can't see me.

Their accurate but time and time again I'v had shootouts with AI where neither of us could hit eachother due to ground, problem is most people try to engage the AI head on in open terrain, worst thing you can do right there.

When I look at the AI I generally moreso think 'trained soldier' level rather then simple AI. Yes they are deadly accurate but that is how it is supposed to be in reality is it not? Some times they can however snipe you at odd distances, and use RPG's on soldiers..not sure what the deal is with that..

They only become frustrating in my opinion when you try to gun them head on with speed, you'll only get yourself killed near instantly and make yourself more upset.

Now as I said, sometimes the AI can have foolish moments, an example would be one time I was in some urban combat with a friend on an evo server, we were trying to hold the town from a structure with three levels. I was running low on ammo and ran downstairs. I had killed some AI a block away so I was going to take their gun. Lo and behold a machine gunners meets me and he's crouched, the AI just stares and fires a shot. Panicked, I try to flank him, running around him right in his face. He still fires but can't seem to turn fast enough, got right behind him and pegged him..only to be pegged from elsewhere.

Trick is to use terrain to your advantage, scoot away from your firing position if things get too hot, watch your flanks constantly and if you can, never go in alone. Sometimes its also best not to fire a few shots after your buddies, since the AI will prioritize them as the target, giving you a bit more time to live while trying to take them out.

[Wolfrug 0]

Hard, sometimes frustrating. I think ofpforum put it quite well : you never do know what those buggers are up to. Especially now in ArmA they can suddenly decide to start flanking you, or decide to just lie down and aim at you until you pop out of cover, or just run around in circles 'till they get shot (then again, running around in circles DOES make them harder to kill than most human players who enjoy standing still in the middle of the street :P). In tight urban areas you really don't want to be on your own without someone covering your back.

The "extreme accuracy" is a bit of a bugger, but I think in a way also necessary to make the AI actually challenging. Basically, if you're lying down on a flat, open plain with no cover, and you engage an AI squad on your own, you're dead. Even a single AI, unless you've got a certain bead, might just cap you the moment you shoot and miss. On the other hand, on the ridge of a hill or behind a building or some rocks, you can effectively engage the enemy from cover (moving in and out, basically, or leaning). It's all about balance, and choosing your battlefields (as xnodunitx says).

But yes...the AI = frightening. I do think however the blewdy AI should be a -bit- more affected by recoil, and possibly react to suppressive fire (and lay it down themselves as well). That's all I could ask for.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[froggyluv 2136]

Honestly i'd be stoked if BIS released a "Realistic Battle Tactics" expansion including suppression and response, and a CQB system that would come into effect in urban areas. i'd take that over over a few missions and units anyday.

[NoRailgunner 0]

I think AI should have much more different skill by "branch".

For example pilots have highskills with airplanes/helicopters but less driving tanks or shooting with MGs and use sniping systems....

SF should have the best skills in "silent combat". Increasing demands all-around

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I find the AI to be realistic and hard in a good way mostly. A huge improvement compared to OFP if you ask me. And I mean HUGE.

It would in my opinion be close to perfect if BIS would just;

-Add reaction to suppressive fire and ability to suppress

-Improve AI's CQC abilities

-Fix the 'sniped in the head from 500 meters' issue

-Increase solders view distance

-Remove MBT's/APC's ability to shoot down choppers from hundreds of meters away

[r71 0]

They are good, but could use alot of work on the take cover part. I would like to see them run for a wall then lean out to fire back. maybe even chuck a frag from behind it.

[Balschoiw 0]

To be honest: I like the way they toast my private parts from time to time.

It takes a lot more caution to spot enemies and to engage them.

Sometimes you just see the helmet behind a ridge and get the flash soon after.

I like it, even if it´s harder than OFP, but that´s what I´ve been asking for anyway

With OFP you had AI that acted as AI is expected to act and we got used to it, with Arma the reaction times of AI are more human-alike and they take every chance to get you. Even if that means flanking you, or lobbing some nades behind a cover if they don´t have a direct line of fire.

Voted "Hard" = I like it !

[andersson 285]

Computerplayers are used to be a hero and take on AI in masses. Even in OFP you could do much damage with a group on a big enemy force. I think Arma has very good AI as its very hard, almost impossible, to win against a bigger force. You do not attack a bigger force alone or with a small group, atleast not without very good tactics and strategies..

And the AIs ability to "snipe" you from distance, change the configuration and its very rewarding (I dont remember the name of the file, do a forum search). I have relative high skill and low precision on the AI. They miss as much as me

[russin 0]

the ai seeing threw bushs and shooting threw them at is a let down but mabe one day they won't see threw them

[NeMeSiS 11]

the ai seeing threw bushs and shooting threw them at is a let down but mabe one day they won't see threw them  

No, its an awesome feature, i shoot trough bushes when i suspect an enemy is at the other side, so does the AI. They CANNOT see trough bushes, they see you, when something comes in their LOS they will estime your your position (you know, the flying yellow target box which keeps going on after you lost view on your target) in a linear direction based on your last know speed and direction. They will aim at this estimated position and if this estimated position is behind something of which they know they can shoot trough, they will.

http://files-upload.com/nl/311494/AIbushtest.wmv.html <- example movie.

[Dallas 9]

I never had a problem with the AI. It's great in my book, not perfect, but great anyways. I can easily speak up on an AI day or night, but if they spot you, they will coordinate and they will challenge you.

If you're caught out in the open they will kill you with either a lucky shot or simply because they lay down a barage in your general direction. On the other hand if you got decent cover, you almost alway had a few seconds to take cover. You can then easily slice the pie and engage one AI at the time take down groupe alone. But you better hurry, because the will try to out flank you.

[Balschoiw 0]

Yes

I just had lots of that when playtesting a mission soon to be released. It´s in northern territory and tanks drive into minefield with some collateral damage on the trees. The AI soldiers rush to the trees and I follow them with my fire and finally get them while they are shooting on my last known position from behind the fallen trees. This, with the custom sound "engine" I embedded made a big thrill with them screaming for backup and taunting me

"Run little p****, run !"

[Heatseeker 0]

I think the a.i. improved a bit in some aspects but in others balance was lost (like you cant do as well as they do with an RPG or AK74).

The increase of graphical detail also puts the player at a big disadvantage since there are more world objects, object detail and everything blends in better. In OPF the soldier models stood out from the blocky vegetation, its easier to run into them now without noticing (i wont coment on the grass).

One other problem i have is night time combat, the a.i. "see" you at night and when one "sees" you the whole squad gets the yellow cursor of death on you wich is alot diferent from saying: "theres a bad guy over there". The sabotage missions in OPF were awsome, in Arma a pain in the back.

My impression is that BIS tweaked some numbers in the code (acuracy, detection and detection time), the a.i. wont make an effective decision because they are under fire (all, take cover), they do because they always detect and atack the enemy now.

I have come across many unfair situations that i wouldnt like to experience in a no respawn/true coop session. Ofcourse i have adapted my play style to be more effective and survive but still...

edit:

I did a small experience in a pitch dark night (no moon) using a MP5SD6 versus a small squad of opfor where i ensured none of them were using nvg's, without nod's i was 100% blind and would walk right into them.

One managed to see and shoot at me, once this happened they all fired at me, i was 50 meters away, crouch position with less than half body exposed behind a building..

[twisted 128]

I find the AI since 1.08 pretty easy. The dead-eye accuracy from 500m has been toned down especially when you set their skill below 4 on difficulty settings. and all that's really needed to cut them up is to get into position and use binoculars to send target info to your group.

what i do enjoy is that BIS have started getting the AI to do things like flank and i even saw an AI crawl up onto a roof but that might have been due to UPS script.

The next step in AI would make ArmA something very special.

things like:

more human-like accuracy and awareness,

suppressing fire (and effects of being suppressed = AI value its life),

tactical advances.

fireteams within a group advancing together or alternatley,

groups able to communicate and co-ordinate advances,

panic,

spontaneous regroups,

effective use of buildings and the insides of buildings as cover,

more automatic use of cover/concealment,

sneakiness (camping, hiding, pretending to flee, tactical retreat, climbing on rooftops to engage people/vehicles below)

BIS implementation could be as simple as including fire team leaders in a group if you want your men to automatically split up and performing bounding overwatch. Officers could automatically command fireteam leaders who have lost their own officers, etc.

[stryker555 0]

@ twisted

They are already doing enough to cause serious difficulty I dont want them doing anymore unless their echo location is toned down over 150 meters and recoil and bullet spread affect their accuracy, they always can flank and use cover but what u want them to do is just too much.

[Heatseeker 0]

They already "flanked" in OPF and i know that when they took casualties they would sometimes retreat, regroup and then engage again, remember allowfleeing 1 ?

In OPF the a.i. just wasnt made to "play" above 800 meters i think.. thats why they would act like sitting ducks sometimes.

One thing that appears to be working well in Arma is damage, i've been atacked by injured a.i. at closer range and their acuracy was rather bad, atleast thats my impression.

The way the squad setup is made (default) puts the sniper at the end of the group and most of the time the sniper is the element ordered to flank/atack the player, he should stay at the distance covering the squad along with the MG's.

[twisted 128]

@ twisted

They are already doing enough to cause serious difficulty I dont want them doing anymore unless their echo location is toned down over 150 meters and recoil and bullet spread affect their accuracy, they always can flank and use cover but what u want them to do is just too much.

AFAIK recoil and bullet spread already affect AI. just make a custom recoil for a weapon and use really high values and watch how AI cant hit a damn thing.

i agree about the magic ears thing, hearing IMO should give a general direction not exact location but other than that AI should be more tactically advanced.

if you think AI is too hard then edit your arma config file (its in your documents under arma) and set AI accuracy low and, i think it's called ability or similar from memory, to high. then the AI are not so accurate but still fun to play against. also don't go head to head against them (that death in the game) but try and trick them by shooting then moving.

also try seconds suppression script, it makes the AI MUCH LESS ACCURATE when they come under fire. it's also makes them take cover better which makes for interesting playing.

what i am after are things that will make ArmA more satisfying tactically and make AI act alot more like real soldiers. anyway this type of conversation on AI been done over and over... not sure why i responded to it now....

[ht-57 0]

Computerplayers are used to be a hero and take on AI in masses..

Hey someone summed up my unwitting "rambo" style quite well! If I only had a dollar for every time I got lit up! Can I get an "AMEN" for the "Save" button in sp! Also its along drive to the front when your a prvt in mp.....