ArmA Modelling Basics

[blackjack-VS- 0]

hey deadmeat i'm sory if sound pretensious or anything with my 2cents... i just sayed what i've read/listen from the many professionals around the gaming world. having a high poly model as a base usually is the best way. for small details u have "handpainted" method, but for gears, uniforms, faces and other "organic" shapes u need the high poly reference like or not.

My point was to give cl10k a "hand" on this subject and since u seem to domain this subject so well, i'll keep silent...

Good luck cl10k and i hope to your work soon!

[dm 9]

@ May 26 2007,14:09)]hey deadmeat i'm sory if sound pretensious or anything with my 2cents... i just sayed what i've read/listen from the many professionals around the gaming world. having a high poly model as a base usually is the best way. for small details u have "handpainted" method, but for gears, uniforms, faces and other "organic" shapes u need the high poly reference like or not.

My point was to give cl10k a "hand" on this subject and since u seem to domain this subject so well, i'll keep silent...

Nah, thats cool. I actually agree with you 100%

Its always technically "better" to generate normal maps from a higher detail model, but in a lot of cases its simply too time consuming (especially for the hobbyist) to do for every single model you make.

ArmA requires LoDs, to make a QUALITY LoD set, you should aim to have 7 LoDs, add to that a high poly normal reference, and you've got to re-model everything 8 times, as well as ensuring the UV set remains the same. Now multiply that by the number of things you actually want to create for the game, and you can see that there is a hell of a lot of work ahead of you.

And its certainly not about dominating the subject. I know for a FACT that there is a HUGE amount I can still learn from other people. My point so far has been to make sure the terminology is correct

[nephilim 0]

well both methods are quite valid.

it just depends on what you want to achieve

if you have a very detailed model that just needs to have surface detail it sure would be stupid to create high poly model for irt and scratches or small bolts.

this can easily be done with the photochop plugin using greyscale images (bumpmaps :P ) as height reference.

the other method using high poly reference models and applying the normals of the high ref model onto the low poly model has the advantage that it actually captures surface geometry.

you cant really paint thise with photoshop as it will always look very arkward due transistion steps.

the only disadvantage that normal maps have is that they are perpendicular and the actual low poly geometry will always be visible at the edges :/

http://www.view4u.com.br/Nano_map.jpg

indeed thats a very good example.

this kinda of normal map captured geometry you cant paint.

or at least it would take ALOT of time and effort that simply doesnt do any justice in my eyes

but actually to heat up the turmoil abit *grin*

those arma normal maps kinda look like simple bump maps dyed in pink..

whereas pink = valley, white = peaks.

cheers

[dm 9]

but actually to heat up the turmoil abit *grin*

those arma normal maps kinda look like simple bump maps dyed in pink..

whereas pink = valley, white = peaks.

You'll be talking about the Specular maps there then...

Lets put this one to bed for good shall we:

ArmA UH60 textures

Diffuse map (uh60_2_co)

Normal Map (uh60_2_nohq)

Specular Map (uh60_2_smdi)

Can we please stop this pointless BS now? Thanks

[nephilim 0]

oopps! my fault XD

sorry

[adumb 0]

even better way is to use xnormal, which is free and at times it works way better that XSI or even a scultping app like mudbox or Zbrush.

What do you mean by "even a scultping app like mudbox or Zbrush" ? last time i looked xnormal was just to generate normal, ambient occlusion and parallax displacement maps. and not for "sculpting"

[cl10k 0]

i've tried xnormal now. but have a weird result. any idea what went wrong? or any link to a good tutorial?

[nephilim 0]

strange

did us use a box or a simple plane as a low poly mesh?

overlaping geometry??

[cl10k 0]

the lowpoly was a box without any overlapping

[nephilim 0]

did you maybe accidentally render both objects ( hi poly/ low poly) in one frame?

looks like some clipping to me

try rendering if from another angle

post normal map?

[cl10k 0]

i'll do that later. reading the manual atm and googling for some info...

[Delirium 0]

even better way is to use xnormal, which is free and at times it works way better that XSI or even a scultping app like mudbox or Zbrush.

What do you mean by "even a scultping app like mudbox or Zbrush" ? last time i looked xnormal was just to generate normal, ambient occlusion and parallax displacement maps. and not for "sculpting"

It means that it is may be better than applications that also have normal map creation capabilities.

[Rhodite 3]

moved..

[USSRsniper 0]

Ddint want to create another topic with my modellling questions, but my question is how and what is the best way to model weapons? I did model few vehicles, but they are fairly easy since you have blueprints.... but weapons is another story. Speaking to somebody who ahs experience would really help me.

[Johannes 10]

Ddint want to create another topic with my modellling questions, but my question is how and what is the best way to model weapons? I did model few vehicles, but they are fairly easy since you have blueprints.... but weapons is another story. Speaking to somebody who ahs experience would really help me.  

mhhh i think there isnt a big diffrence model whise. its all about making a nice clean model with lots of details by using as less polygons as possible. Just take a good picture of the sider for geting a feeling of the proportions and use as much refrence pics as possible to get it done properly.

The most depends on the textures anyway so it wont be looking good if you´ve got an awesome model but your textures are shit.

[nephilim 0]

yea theres no "real" way

model it like it serves you and the model.

[USSRsniper 0]

So pretty much you model just the way you want, as long as finished product will look like real thing.....

[nephilim 0]

yes.

theres no "correct" way or style.

in the end it has to look like the thing you want to achieve.

but usually on weapons youd work alot with boxes and pipes.

using extrude bevel etc etc..

but thats basically that applies for any model.. XD

[Törni 0]

Could someone post an example of how to apply normal and specular maps to a model? Currently cannot find a way to apply them directly with O2 or GateBuilder.

[nephilim 0]

you cant apply normal maps or speculars in gatebuilder or oxygen right now...

you need to do this over the rvmat files

[Törni 0]

Quote[/b] ]you need to do this over the rvmat files

An example of how to do it, please?

So far I have seen material definitions as part of configs. That's how?

[Synide 0]

@Torni... yeah, currently you need to specify your normal maps & specular maps via a CfgTextureToMaterial and CfgMaterials in a config for the model if you're dealing with new content. if you're reskinning a v40 p3d then you could use an rvmat file but i wouldn't bother with this as the values specified in the .rvmat file are also embedded in the p3d.

I have a question...

Is there an effective and efficient method of producing a specular map texture file for a given diffuse texture?

[blackjack-VS- 0]

Synide about the specular map, it depends on the diffuse texture u have and how complex it is....but there's some tricks u can try, and maybe u can get a decent specular texture...

what i would advise is:open the diffuse texture and go to the colors-desaturate (this is for a greyscale specular map, so no colors on the specular here).

now go to colors-levels and colors-curves. try to balance it so u can have strong transitions from black/white. i usually avoid the grey tones, so u can have a notorious transition on the specular.

i havent checked the specular maps on arma, so it depends on the shader proprierties, but usually white means full specular and black means no specular.

if u want to retouch just a small portion of the texture, create a selection around it, and play around with levels/curves....

meanwhile from all the tutorials i saw, speculars are always made "by hand", so i guess this is the hardest part of the process of texturing...

good luck and i hope i coud help

[Synide 0]

Thank you blackjack[VS], I thought someone was going to say 'by hand'... lol, was hoping that someone was going to say, yip you should be able to produce Specular Maps with FX Composer or Max or Modo by assigning a material and providing properties for specularity etc. and doing a render or some similar technique.

And, well after reading this article on the Biki I'm starting to believe.

I can quite happily live without any tools at all from BIS, what I crave is detailed and explicit information on LOD's, textures, anims etc. and most importantly, why.

Anyhoo, read the article. And the one on TexView 2.

Looks like specular mapping won't be as onerous as I thought. Cool, very cool, BIS.

[Panda-PL- 0]

The problem with specular map is: it needs two channels to work!

The texture is 2D, so one channel supplies only information on how the light is applied along one axis.

My advise on normal maps:

1) draw a height map (lighter th color the higher the point), you can use the normal texture here if you're really in a hurry, but I advise making it by hand.

2) use programs like Xnormal to convert it to normal map.

The correct channel settings seem to be:

+x -Y +Z

That's what I find easy and it has one basic advantage: all the software you use is freeware.

Another way would be making a hipoly version and using the program to make the normal map by comparing them.

But for that you'll need a "pro" program to make hipoly version.

------------------------------------------------------------

Can anyone propose a good method for converting meshes from Oxygen to normal 3D formats? I tried 3DRipper but the models are deformed in the process...

Oxygen doesn't have unwrapping tools, as everyone is aware.

(lol, modding tools I hope...)