ArmA Modelling Basics

[Messiah 2]

I'm totally confused. I'm working on some troop models, most of which are lower poly (some ~1000 faces) than the BIS standard troops, with basically very similar LODs, and they use less textures (most use 1 2048x2048 colour and similar _AS and _NOHQs).

Yet, ingame they are way way way way less efficient FPS-wise than the standard BIS models, despite all the above characteristics, especially when in ODOL format.

Why? What am I doing wrong?

EDIT - Plus they use the standard BIS model as a base. Damnation!

the first question would be how many sections the model has? (bottom left corner along with faces etc)

I assume the binarizing process doesn't flag any errors?

Checked the arma report file for recurring errors linked to the addon? Buldozer can also produce a report file which will prevent you having to waste a lot of time loading up arma to check.

otherwise, like you, I would have assumed that two models with similar attributes would perform in a similar way.

[MehMan 0]

You can triangulate from within Max by applying a meshsmooth modifier.

subdivision method: classic

iterations: 0 (you don't actually want to smooth the mesh)

input conversion (should be under settings rollout) button set to triangle

Or better yet, convert it to editable mesh and show all edges(so you can then turn edges, etc), then you have your mesh in a way triangulated, or to make it sure, you can convert it to editable patch.

[hamiltonfed 0]

As I do understand the max resolution for texture is 1024x1024?

So if I'm making UV map I should use this size, right?

[[aps]gnat 28]

For ArmA / O2 etc ?

2048x2048 is doable and better.

[Commando84 0]

hey i got a question, how are muzzle fire effects from rifle weapons done in games? And how do i do it in maya?

Im trying to do some fancy fx for a game project in school and i dont got a clue how to..

and i searched 2 dozen 3d sites and googled for muzzle flare , muzzle fire + maya ect.

[USSRsniper 0]

I got a problem, every time i import something in o2, objects are misplaced, they magically moved.... IN 3d max car has windows properly placed, but in O2, windows are not aligned...exporting from 3d max as .3DS

Never mind fixed it myself, if anyone has the same problem, just reset Xform for each object in 3ds max

[Boborish 1]

Hey guys,

Ive got a question - basically, when one models something, he loads the blueprint of the particular vehicle/aircraft on the background and starts modeling. Now, the way I was doing it in the past (used to play in O2 from time to time during OFP times) was I loaded the blueprint as a texture and scaled it on the grid in each of the 3 views and ensured its in the same size on all views. The problem was (is) that it takes damn too long and when I quit O2, the position is lost and have to start over again every time I open the model.

So, do you know about a better (easier) way?

[[aps]gnat 28]

Just create a large left and right plane (big rectangle, 1 face), a top and bottom plane and a front and back plane.

Typically they all cross at 0,0,0

Then actually apply that blue print textures to the corresponding plane. i.e. Left view to left plane etc

That way they are saved, and when you are finally finished you can delete them.

[Boborish 1]

Ah right, thanks m8.

[Messiah 2]

much as this is arma modeling basics, I hope that texture advice could be shared too...

something thats eluded me for the last 4 or 5 years of my modding 'career', is the ability to make realistic looking mud on vehicles. Its something I've sat and really appreciated on the CSLA vehicles, and all my attempts have always look like a monkey's been throwing his crap at a vehicle.

now, the tutes for mud that goole throw up, and worthless and poor. Either I'm searching the wrong strings, but they don't seem to give any results for tutorials that involve adding mud splatter onto vehicle textures. There used to be an ok tutorial back in the OFP days by one of the community, but I could never grasp his technique.

So... essentially does anyone have a good tutorial on mud that someone like me can understand, or if you're feeling kind, a PSD with layers I can 1. study and 2. use?

[Boborish 1]

There was a guy named Marfy, a very good texturer (and modeler too I guess). He wrote several tuts about making textures (including the mud you need), unfortunately I cant find his website anymore.

But as I was googling for him, I found FABs site. He has some texture tuts there as well, might help you a little bit.

[Messiah 2]

Quote[/b] ] There used to be an ok tutorial back in the OFP days by one of the community, but I could never grasp his technique.

I was talking about Marfy - thanks for reminding me of his name. I never found is tute that easy to follow, possibly because of the language barrier or my own ignorance.

[Boborish 1]

I thought you mean him.

Another question:

Does count of faces have big impact on performance? Or are vertexes that determinate it?

I am using 3-point faces only (triangles) to avoid disappearing that happens when you misshape a 4-point face. But not everywhere where I use them they are necessary (on flat areas). So should I replace those with 4-point ones to have instead of 2 faces just 1 face?

[DaSquade 0]

Quote[/b] ]the ability to make realistic looking mud on vehicles

I'm not texture artist and i don't have directly something i can share in psd form, but for mud/rust etc...Imho you get the fastest result if you google for a nice 'even' mud/rust picture, you might even want to go outside and take some pictures.

In photoshop apply and mask on it and work on the mask with one of the stamps or a custom stamp. Work with the inverted color to remove or soften the mud. Might want to play with several mud/rust sample pictures and play around with the layer Opacity and layer style (multiply/color burn/overlay etc...).

It takes some effort to get result though and since it is 'organic' in shape it will demand some artistic talent and common sence where to apply it.

Quote[/b] ]Another question:

Does count of faces have big impact on performance? Or are vertexes that determinate it?

I am using 3-point faces only (triangles) to avoid disappearing that happens when you misshape a 4-point face. But not everywhere where I use them they are necessary (on flat areas). So should I replace those with 4-point ones to have instead of 2 faces just 1 face?

This has more or less been discussed some time ago. Fact is, afaik, the engine (not only arma's engine but all 3d render engines) in the end calculate and work with vertexes and work with triangle polys.

Personally i rather work with quad polys as long as possible as it looks cleaner and easier to work with the model. Fact is like you are aware of, it is best to manually already prepare and custom convert some quad polys into tris so the 'split' is in the correct or best possible diagolan.

You can do it one by one, witch is often the best way as mirrored faces tend to split the wrong way.

As for what faces are best to convert, you can check the faces by using the 'check faces' option/tool in O2. If the model still contains non-planar faces and non-linear mapping 'bugs', those are the one that still need attention.

[Messiah 2]

Dasquade - I've been scouring the internet, and various texture reference sites (such as cgtextures.com) and none seem to have any usable photos of a flat surface with mud on. Flickr isn't much better either.

I think you may be right, I'll have to go search my local area for muddy vehicles, but being in the middle of Copenhagen doesn't present many vehicles like that. Saying that though, I did cycle past a UAZ the other day. I nearly fell of my bike trying to see if I was seeing things.

[DaSquade 0]

As i still have to learn a lot when it comes to photo-realistic texturing i decided to quickly give it a shot. I must agree mud texturing is not that easy (for me) like said due to the fact it is very organic but on the other side it needs some sort of realitic pattern.

Offcourse there are different types of mud: clean dry sad/dust particals (witch will give a nice flat pattern), mixed mud, heavy offroad wet and dry mud rests etc etc...

Anyway, my quick attempt (15min playing aroudn in photoshop on a simple photo of a car side profile):

The psd, feel free to use:

Muddy car tutorial PSD

As you can see i just took some random samples of the net and worked with layer masks.

-Started of with giving the mask layer a full black color so the sample texture is 'hidden'. Then i slowly worked with soft and hard brushes (white color) on the mask so it becomes visible again.

-Play around with the contrast and brightness (of the layer mask) and layer opacity (of the sample texture).

-If needed change/adjust the sample texutre (light or dark brown values) so you get the effect of dry or wet mud.

Some for the next few samples...

A simple 1pixel/sharp brush (default) is used to give it the 'mud spays' on it. Same principle as you would use for making scratches.

Overall, for the quick test it turned out pretty good imho. At least it was the effect i was trying to make (mix of wet and dry mud). Like asways, the longer and more patience you work the better effect you will get.

Something i was wondering though, but guess it could be found on the net, is how to past a black/white 'relief' picture into a layer mask. It didn't worked here, as some textures can easly be use as start mask.

Anyway, hope it helps a bit or at least give you an idea who i did it. But i'm sure there are plenty other ways to do it, if not better ways .

[Messiah 2]

wow, thank you very much.

Its nice to see the PSD so I can try and learn the technique, or at least adapt my own from it. I just could never get the hang of the organic/natural look of it. My attempts would look my mud, sure, but mud that had been painted on using a paint brush

thanks again

[DaSquade 0]

I understand...all my previous QUICK attempts looked like your monkey doedoes i guess. Thing is, mud doesn't come out of a can (brush)..it take some effort.

Anyway, hope it helps you a bit. Feel free to use what can be used.

*Bit offtopic: Been thinking about it long time and it just came back when chatting to Godkiller. Wouldn't it be an idea to seperate these small tutorials and give them their own sticked position in this sub-forum? I would be up for it to make some other small tutorials, be it good or not, as long we can all learn out of it. It would be a nice place to fits in others simular attempts (in same form...end result + PSD to be shared).

Just a thought...not that the BIS forum needs to turn into a online tutorial site.

[Commando84 0]

imo would be very nice if there would be a small section or topic that contained various tutorials and source materials.

[Boborish 1]

This has more or less been discussed some time ago. Fact is, afaik, the engine (not only arma's engine but all 3d render engines) in the end calculate and work with vertexes and work with triangle polys.

Personally i rather work with quad polys as long as possible as it looks cleaner and easier to work with the model. Fact is like you are aware of, it is best to manually already prepare and custom convert some quad polys into tris so the 'split' is in the correct or best possible diagolan.

You can do it one by one, witch is often the best way as mirrored faces tend to split the wrong way.

As for what faces are best to convert, you can check the faces by using the 'check faces' option/tool in O2. If the model still contains non-planar faces and non-linear mapping 'bugs', those are the one that still need attention.

Thank you.

And the tuts topic would be great! I will soon need to learn to create textures myself and something like that would be heaven.

Maybe we (or you, since Im not very experienced in modeling and a total newb in texturing) could put them on biki and make a new topic here that would include links to all tuts available.

[DaSquade 0]

Not really a biki fan here .

Well a quickly checked with one of the mods to check how this best would be done: inside the current "ARMA : O2 MODELLING" section or maybe a new section...Will see what turns up.

[VXR 9]

This has more or less been discussed some time ago. Fact is, afaik, the engine (not only arma's engine but all 3d render engines) in the end calculate and work with vertexes and work with triangle polys.

Personally i rather work with quad polys as long as possible as it looks cleaner and easier to work with the model. Fact is like you are aware of, it is best to manually already prepare and custom convert some quad polys into tris so the 'split' is in the correct or best possible diagolan.

You can do it one by one, witch is often the best way as mirrored faces tend to split the wrong way.

As for what faces are best to convert, you can check the faces by using the 'check faces' option/tool in O2. If the model still contains non-planar faces and non-linear mapping 'bugs', those are the one that still need attention.

Thank you.

And the tuts topic would be great! I will soon need to learn to create textures myself and something like that would be heaven.

Maybe we (or you, since Im not very experienced in modeling and a total newb in texturing) could put them on biki and make a new topic here that would include links to all tuts available.

Making textures can be a long learning process, you got to know your way around in photoshop by doing simple tutorials in the first place. You'll understand the tools and filters then you can try to remake a texture that someone else made just to practise. I'm busy now with it for the last 4 years and I'm still discovering new ways to make things look better and more realistic.

There are a few nice tutorials for planes here

This is also a nice webpage with a few DVDs full of tutorials that are easy to understand and very fun to do.

[Boborish 1]

Cool, bookmarked the sites. Thanks.

Btw Im not a complete newbie in Photoshop (far from being a pro though), I use to modify screens in it etc. I just never did textures. Sure will have to check those tutorials first.

[Boborish 1]

Another question:

is it possible to export .p3d to .3ds? I tried to google it but couldnt find anything but theres some kind of an "export version of O2PE" that can do it. Cant find it though.

[Messiah 2]

as I remember it, the first version of O2PE had an export function, but in the latest versions it was removed. So... you just need to find an earlier version to download.