ArmA is just ... disappointing

[CanadianTerror 0]

What you pay for ArmA and what you pay for VBS2 are like comparing apples and oranges.

You wont see VBS2 stuff come to ArmA in any way shape or form.

Even if from a gamer point of view it makes sense.

[NeMeSiS 11]

Lets see, although in general i love the game, ill just list the things which annoy me.

-General AI movement pathfinding is at least 'clumsy'.

-AI dont show any emotions, you dont know if they are retreating or just lost, this makes them look stupid even though they are doing something.

-Bushes kill performance when close to them.

-'Laser tracers'.

-A lot of default values are off (AI accuracy, .., ..).

-Car movement still feels weird.

-No proper anti cheat protection.

-Damage effects (Explosions are nice, rusty textures arent).

-Although the animations themselves are very nice, and i like the fact that lying down/standing up/etc takes time and i dont feel like 2 flying hands with a gun, the animation system itself is far from perfect. (cant break animations, cant 'combine' animations).

It doesnt stop me from enjoying the game, but IMO this should be fixed. (Well, the animation system is something for game2, so it the AI..)

[Jambo107 0]

You've misunderstood the meaning. The effects, the fixes that make the VBS engine better is what we the end user wants. I'm not interested in the command engine, the training module I'm not even interested in  the Marine, UKF or ADF material - What I want is BIS to listen to what where asking, we as there customer expect when sold 'the ultimate military simulator' to be just that. Not the crap stripped down beta for the 'real' version. Thats the fustration, thats why so many people feel BIS don't care - It feel's almost like I've been robbed I'm paying to test the beta ye the fruits of our labour is out of reach.

[ThePredator 0]

Quote[/b] ]What you pay for ArmA and what you pay for VBS2 are like comparing apples and oranges.

True, but ArmA is not worth 5 €. It's still a beta. And we are dumb enough to buy that product, the armed forces will send BIS/BIA to hell if they ship them the same crap, whatever the price tag was.

[W0lle 1051]

Also, what happened to the AAR? A key feature that dispeared.

I'd also like to know where and who said that there will be an AAR in ArmA? Maybe it's time for you to come up with sources.

As far as I can remember this feature was never supposed to be in ArmA.

This topic is about existing stuff that makes you feel disappointed with ArmA, not what maybe, eventually could have been in ArmA.

Can we also drop the comparisons between ArmA and VBS/BF/CS? We had these discussions endless times here by now.

[Jambo107 0]

Did operation flashpoint not have a basic AAR that should the amount of people you killed and amoutn wounded at the end of each mission (be it MP, SP or in the editor)

Is armed assault not based off the same engine? So stands to reason we should have this feature and we should be able to discuss this feature as it was an integral part of Flashy and Arma is an extension off the same engine.

And the VBS point is valid untill a definitive answer is given to why customers like myself and others cannot have what we paid for? You must see why I'm making this point, on my box it says Armed assault is the ultimate Military simulator, yet clearly its not since VBS2 is far superior and contains many of the features that we want in the game that we purchased. If you can't provide an answer either in techincal or legal reasons;then you should be recalling Arma from shelves and replace the 'ultimate Military simulator' with the words Military based action game or words to that effect.

Mr Wolle I feel cheated I feel BIS have taken my money by falsing advertising me the game, I feel that the money I've paid for has gone into the development of VBS2 and I'm not seeing any benifits - If BIS was a UK company I'd reported them or there publisher to Trade & Standards but alas your not, see here I am voicing my concern, and it is my very right to do so.

[gazmen 0]

Simulate real human behavior on a game of this type is difficult, the other game use small map & everything is scripted...

Of course AI need improvement, (about trying to hide behind wall & house, to go back & the rearming of AA weapon, to get round of target, bipod of weapon automatikely activeted when crouched [like the sniper of Rainbox 6 raven shield], and others gadgets like thermal & electromagnetic goggle, heart beat detector, laser or I.R dot, gun light, electronic mine [splinter Cell]), but it's a matter of time... (These can be made by people, but the engine must able to use them)...

ARMA seems to focus on Graphism, & not the engine, must bug & default of OFP are in ARMA, this is only the shape who change...

OFP has begin to be fun since 1.85, when RESISTANCE was released, perhaps BIS would make an ADD-ON or a PATCH to correct most of Problem...

For me the greater problem is, the lack of fun... It's boring to play (perhaps to much playing OFP & those type of game, even Counter-Strike is boring me, I'begin to be older)... And the game crash a lot...

[ziiip 1]

Woah Jambo, looks like all the reason you came here is to whine about the game.

"For a game that looks 2-3 years"

Well, it's absolutely not BIS' fault that you are blind.

"old it runs crap, total utter crap"

I have to agree.

"Oblivion runs better"

That proves how stupid you are. Oblivion runs a lot worse. 15 of those hellish-armored-looking guys degrades the damn FPS so much it becomes unplayable.

"No support for Dual Core or proper Sli support - Sorry its 2007 this should be standard"

Oh yeah? Tell me 5 PC titles that support DC.

"Theres no animals or wildlife, no farm land or any of the above."

There are farmlands in ArmA, sorry if you haven't noticed. Concerning the wildlife, I bet you don't miss them in OFP, why do you do so in ArmA then?

Ai - it's true they're dumb at close combat, but they aren't worse than OFP's AI at all. In fact, they are very tricky at ranged combat. They flank you unnoticed and shoot you in the back if you stay at the same place for long.

"Why are my team mates idiots?"

"Why are vehicle/drivers so stupid?"

They've learned that from you.

"Why do tanks drive through towns instead of around?(if the better choice)"

What are roads meant for?

"Why do units shoot when orded not to?"

Nerver experienced such thing, but surely you'd shoot too if someone got dangerously close to you even if you were ordered not to shoot.

Animations - I guess it's impossible to satisfy everyone, but I love the new anims(though it's true that they look jerky from distance).

I agree with some statements, but ArmA is a large scaled, not only in gameplay but also technically, and as such, it takes some time to perfect it. Play multipalyer, it's better and your teammates are not stupid.

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

i'm generally sad about the fact, that the closecombat comunity was left outside the doors without being told in the last postponed years. those x-box controller anims and popcorn bullet sounds and unreal gfx demands resulting in having 99% coop servers. as i remember the mayority back in ofp wasn't into coop, they like to have their gun and playing versus real human enemies. after 6 months of patching i see no effort torwards better cqb experience, i still see a broken bridge between a sim and a game. nobody cared about the grafics back in ofp, because the feeling counted.

[Jambo107 0]

Ziiip your the model fanboi. But I am glad you agree on some my points  

If people don't whine/complain/crit then the game will never get better and you'll hear the same people saying the same things 1, 2, 3 years from now.

Games that support Dual Core; (Please take note of WoW)

Quake 4, FEAR, Doom, Prey, Stalker, Battlefield 2142, Halo 2, Supreme Commander, Age of Empires 3, City of Heroes, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Rainbow Six Vegas, Splinter Cell : Double Agent, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, World of Warcraft, Vanguard, Serious Sam 2, Shadowrun, Football Manager 2006/07, Call of Duty 2, Comoany of Heroes....

I say take note of WoW as its an older game in the list and at the time it was developed Dual Core was not as common on the market, changes where made as with Quake 4 and Doom 3 in patchs that made changes to the code which allowed the second core to be used.

[ThePredator 0]

Well ZiiiP, Jambo has some valid point there.

Just saying the opposite is hardly an argument.

The GFX are behind current standards, but this is not necessarily bad for such game, and Oblivion does run smooth on at least my PC with lots of stuff going on. In Arma my FPS drops below 25 just by watching a bush through a scope...Pretty useless to say what's the FPS with combat going on.

Quote[/b] ]"Why do tanks drive through towns instead of around?(if the better choice)"

What are roads meant for?

Well, why do tankers fear urban combat? Because that is their weakness. Driving through a town if not necessary is suicide.

Quote[/b] ]"Why do units shoot when orded not to?"

Nerver experienced such thing, but surely you'd shoot too if someone got dangerously close to you even if you were ordered not to shoot.

This is hardly self defense. Only if shot upon, they MAY return fire...How to perform infiltrations behind enemy lines with such behaviour??

I would've used more neutral words, but he has a point there.

[Cpt. FrostBite 0]

For me the greater problem is, the lack of fun... It's boring to play (perhaps to much playing OFP & those type of game, even Counter-Strike is boring me, I'begin to be older)...

You put the finger on it.

My problem also. They boosted the graphics, made it have nicer looks, but the playability was stripped from it. The game is too bugged to play right. OFP was just right, it had the perfect balance between sim and game and I had great firefights in OFP.

In Arma it's just not there. Even vehicle steering and flight models are so screwed up I can't play them with my keyboards and mouse as I was used in OFP. And I tried over and over, but it just feels wrong and flying is someting I can't do at all using my mouse.

And the movement and shooting inside the game is s slow that it's frustrating. I feel that the game is hlding me back. Wether this is because of bugs I don't care. It's ruining my fun.

In all ArmA is biggest disappointment I had in years. The game has succesfully ruined the OFP feeling. Ãn it's current state it's unplayable for me or at least no fun to play at all. My ArmA copy is eating dust onthe shelf and will probably end up in the trashcan in a few months from now, unless the game get's a serieus overhaul in performance and the mod-communitiy kicks in to make it the game it should have been a year ago.

I should have never uninstalled OFP.

[mr reality 0]

What i find disappointing are the little things, there are many, but here are a few of my most hated.

[1] Formations in ArmA while in safe mode are restricted to column formation only. Even flashpoint gave you the staggered formation. Whats up with allowing all types of formations in any combat mode.

[2] I posted this one in the bug tracker, and they told me it was a feature.

When a rife squad is set on safe and near a road, they wont follow a simple waypoint without walking on the road. This tells me that all AI is coded the same, wether there in a vehicle or on foot. This feature kills immersion while making patrols in missions.

[3] Aware mode just doesn't work properly when trying to get from point A to point B. This mode worked fine in Flashpoint, as the squad while set on normal speed would gently jog along to the next waypoint. However, because of the added objects on the island, the normal speed results in the squad slowing down to limited with rifle in shoulder animation. I found that this even happened when trying to cross an open area of desert or grassland. Totally unrealistic squad beahviour.

[4] Even though the M1A1 turn out bug is fixed in ver 1.07, (it took that many patches to fix this one simple bug) they still don't act like there on safe. The turrets dont automatically centre and the driving is absolutley laughable. Even on a straight road, limited speed and column formation they stop and spin every 10 metres.

[5] Been mentioned a trillion times already but i'll add it for dramatic effect.

The AI pathfinding is atroshus. One forum member said it all when he mentioned the arcane behaviour of AI while trying to board a vehicle in a town. Why add immersive features like bees and birds when the soldiers can't even get in a vehicle properly.

I hate to say it, but do we really need an island this big. Like others, i'm unable to use the northern part of Sahrani because of low fps. Also because of the denser foliage the pathfinding again is a major issue.

I've heard it before, but i didn't want to believe it, but ArmA is most deffinatly a MP game. In SP it just doesn't cut it. Bad UI, dumb fuck AI squad mates and driving.

Now you may think this should be placed in the bug tracker, but these features wont be "fixed". In Flashpoint they worked fine, in ArmA there a very big disappointment.

[seba1976 98]

Also, what happened to the AAR? A key feature that dispeared.

I'd also like to know where and who said that there will be an AAR in ArmA? Maybe it's time for you to come up with sources.

As far as I can remember this feature was never supposed to be in ArmA.

This topic is about existing stuff that makes you feel disappointed with ArmA, not what maybe, eventually could have been in ArmA.

Can we also drop the comparisons between ArmA and VBS/BF/CS? We had these discussions endless times here by now.

Sir, would you please consider respecting anyone's right to speak freely? You were the one who closed all other topics about 'dissapointment', and open this one up - for the sake of clarity you say. But with that move you loose your right to say what the topic is about, because if you do, then people should have the right to start another topic, and the topic starter will regain the freedom to say what the topic is about.

Also, you should consider not to take part in this conversation, because of your authority, and because you are not dissapointed with the game. And if you are still in the mood to moderate and ask people what to say, maybe you should also consider telling some posters here that this is only for bad experiences about AmrA and not to try to counter argument whatever opinion another customers may have about ArmA.

BTW, just count me in for the most part of the criticism spoken here, so much that I don't have anything more to say than what the posters have already said. Or maybe I could come up with something later .

There is a rumor I've hear though, that Codemasters was more to OFP than what we all first thought, so that they somewhat help BIS to shape their product. I am begining to think that's more than a rumor. I don't know, in any case, what was the problem between Codemaster and BIS, but it was sad, becasue together they did magic, and separated BIS did ArmA. While nobody really think that Codemasters alone will come up with anything better than Flashpoint either.

Cheers anyway .

[ziiip 1]

Quote[/b] ]Ziiip your the model fanboi. But I am glad you agree on some my points

Firstly, I agree on some points because they are true. Secondly, I don't know if beign called a fanboy is wether positive or negative, but flaming the dev isn't too nice either. I understand you just want to share your opinion so that BIS can make the game better, but you could do it more "gentlely". I bet BIS is sick of those bitching the game, they already know of the bugs. Thirdly, ArmA is a lot better in every aspect than OFP except for performance. How can you not like it?

"Why do tanks drive through towns instead of around?"

That's what is hardly an argument. If you mean, that in the official campaign, tanks go through towns where there are firefights, then it's the mission creator's fault, not the game's.

[Rommel 2]

Improve the Path finding, and you got a kick ass game.

Not that it isn't already

EDIT: Scratch that, the path findings fine, but its how they use the path, they do it very robotically following a single route, may randomize it a bit and animations need to be smoothened, more blended in.

EDIT: Whats with the bushes able to kill you (run into em fast and they injure you). I mean was that deliberate as a joke or a way to simulate that branches can scratch you

[SHWiiNG 0]

Arma kinda reminds me of a good old game called Crimson Skies.

Fantastic concept, Supurb Campaign, Unique gameplay, Brilliant flight models and sounds. BUT a total Lack of Microsoft support brought this game down due to constant CTD's and fatal bugs.

ARMA has many problems and faults but just be glad that we have a highly dedicated team of developers (BIS and the community) to improve this game until it matches all of our expectations. this i think we can be greatfull for.

[CanadianTerror 0]

The campaign.

Horrible.

What happened there?

The whole "feel" of the game went downwards for me when I started playing it. OFP's was much better.

William Porter blog went kinda silly as well and then stopped.

[vilas 477]

yeah, OFP was much better, since OFP there is 7 years , since RES 5 years

save point in missions work randomly :/

sometimes restart is not from saved point, but from the begining

today i had such situation:

i am seargeant as 1, 2 is corporal, all other privates

2 is playable

1 was killed, i swicth to 2 and what i ve heard

"this is 3 taking command" i was in shock , all team died because of running around and engaging alone

AI do not obey orders, AI is super skilled shooters, player has no chance with AI, but AI is worst driver, BMP colides with everything and fly high in the air

i was making some missions to my addons, in 25% one of missions fails, because BMP2 (BIS) colides with someting and fly, so all armored support for team is gone :/

in OFP accuracy of weapons was 10-12 times better than ARMA (comparition of paramter accuracy in AK74), but in ARMA AI is so sniper and god-knowledge, that completly no chance with it :/

and graphic performance, loosing LOD, textures , HDR, still CTD

for 5 years i don't remember OFP CTD or any graphic problem !

OFP gave me so much fun, enjoy, ARMA gives only nerves

[NetWalker 0]

There is a rumor I've hear though, that Codemasters was more to OFP than what we all first thought, so that they somewhat help BIS to shape their product. I am begining to think that's more than a rumor. I don't know, in any case, what was the problem between Codemaster and BIS, but it was sad, becasue together they did magic, and separated BIS did ArmA. While nobody really think that Codemasters alone will come up with anything better than Flashpoint either.

Cheers anyway .

I read about this somewhere too and after seeing what BIS did with ArmA, I also believe that was not just a rumor, it was a fact. For me Codemasters do great games (Collin McRae Rally and Toca Race Driving are good examples) and I also believe that OFP 2, which is being developed by them will be better than a lot of people here think, because they will learn from the mistakes BIS did with ArmA.

Now about my disappointing, it's everything that was told here before plus the fact that for me, I can't play the game any longer than 30 minutes because I get a f*** crash to my desktop with 16 colors and I have to reboot my PC. It's so frustrating to try to play a game and when you are in the middle of a mission, then CTD  

[Jambo107 0]

Thirdly, ArmA is a lot better in every aspect than OFP except for performance. How can you not like it?

"Why do tanks drive through towns instead of around?"

That's what is hardly an argument. If you mean, that in the official campaign, tanks go through towns where there are firefights, then it's the mission creator's fault, not the game's.

Me and many others would disagree with that statement, where as OPF poor graphics and ai bugs could be easily overlooked given the scale of the game Armed Assault however you can not. It boils down to this - With Arma we'd expect the bugs that where in Flashy to be resolved, animations and all the short comings improved as much as possible. What we have is a game that in terms of gameplay and immersion falls far behind its older sibling. Like its been said in the topic - you can't get a feel for the game.

And in regards to tanks, what I originally said was "Why do tanks drive through towns instead of around?(if the better choice)"

What I am referring to is tanks getting stuck in towns / urban build up - crashing into a building, reversing then attempting to go the same route, crash into same building, rinse and repeat. This bug was Flashy (though not as bad) and was duly noted - So why is it present in Arma, why isn't the path finding improved? Again links back to the frustration felt and how the game is ruined by lots of little bugs that break the immersion.

In regards to 'flamming the devs' I've bought there game, I'm unhappy at the lack of progress on there part. I've explained why I don't like it, what in my opinion (and shared by others) is broken / needs improving. I could say is softly, I could say it alot worse then have, either ways I've provided examples asked valid questions so dosent matter how I say it - as long as its said.

Don't get me wrong I think Arma can sometimes be a great game, I love OPF and have all the expansions. I want to support BIS, I want to help and I want to make sure Arma becomes the game it was meant to be. I'm not a coder nor am I part of BIS de v team, I don't think its down to modders to fix a broken engine - its down to BIS and us making sure these issues are made aware so they can take it on board and do what they can.

[Yoma 0]

To be honest I don't understand the hype about the tools. How many years passed by after the initial release of OFP before the tools was released?

As much as I understand that the addonmakers need them, I also can understand BI that they release the tools when they think the time is right (and bugs are fixed).

Buggy and crashing tools don't serve anyone and results only in even more BI bashing.

I completely agree on this one!

What's the use of getting tons of mods that only work with version 1.x

If they release the tools a bit later, they'll save modders loads of time fixing their own mods when the game gets patched.

And they'll allso save users a lot of frustration.

[808 0]

I don't know whether it's meant to be like this or not but i've noticed say every once in three missions in the armoury there will be a stryker either attacking or in defense.

For example, watch this vid.

All i've got is an assault rifle with a grenade launcher, how the heck am I meant to take on a stryker with either a machine gun or grenade/rocket launcher?

[Despiser 0]

Between ArmA and Silent Hunter 4 Ive spent nearly a hundred dollars on PC games this last week .

Both are un-playable and an embarrasment to the entire PC gaming industry. I really could care less at "what could be" and at this point I think Ill just shelve both and go buy a PS3 (instead of that 8800). At least on consoles the games are playable when put on the store shelf, unlike PC games of today. Console games in general suck but at least they do work.

When I play Arma I feel like some sort of robot whose sensors are going bad giving me a disconnected feeling. All I know is I as a human do not move the way this game simulates and it only gets worse from there. Pure rubbish.

This forum works about as well as ArmA and should be adequate evidence of your digital incompetence.

~Despiser

[ArmaVidz 0]

Firstly, is this a "Why ARMA is crap" discussion thread or a gathering point for all the disgruntlement of what is wrong?

In my thinking, <span style='color:blue'>a thread like this should be used for one thing:</span> A gathering point, in point form, of all the reason the players think the game sucks. Nothing more.

Cluttering the thread with bawls-to-wall discussion about certain points creates page after page of text to sift through.

Also, W0lle, I disagree with you about your statement of "Why ARMA disappointing and not what ARMA could have been." The reason for much of the disgruntled players is the fact that is named as the sequel to OFP which means it should have the features of the first, with augmentation and updates of those features along with graphical enhancements and game enhancements.

If you disagree with this, then perhaps it's time for you to inform BI that they better remove that "Recharges in a new engine with additional fresh, modern time setting" text from the back of the box.

They've preached this as the second coming of OFP and an equalizer to Combat Sims. If it isn't, it's because of the omission of much of the previous freedoms and lack of forsight in feature implementation.  Obviously we should not expect VBS2, but for a "Combat Sim" some vital features and tweaks are blatantly missing. As the successor to OFP, it really needs to be reworked.

In conclusion: IMHO, this thread should be point form of everything ARMA is missing, not a discussion. The requested features should be toiled over by BI. At some BI must realize that the game is bare compared to they're hype of what it would be.

 <- Here's me begging that BI will listen to the community and implement the features the community has asked for and tweak the areas asked.

Quite simply it's the community that makes this game what it is, and IMO is responsible for most of the sales. Period.

I can confirm this as the only reason I bought it after trying the demo is because I've been lurking on the community for quite some time. The game blows without the community added content and added features/tweaks. Period.