AI = joke

[sandzibar 0]

granted... but there are some glaring issues. today I watched a few things happen on several occaisions to me on a coop server:

1) once the AI has spotted you its impossible to lose them - they will always home in on exactly where you are. They have xray powers. Stand behind a wall and use the squad command view on full outward zoom to see what i mean. This needs to change. i dont mind them having good perceptions.. but cover needs to have 'some' use.

2) they can move through urban objects. walls.. buildings.. etc. Id imagine thats this is a way of fudging through the issues of poor urban pathing and stuck AI. But it really ****s me off when they are suddenly standing next to me when im backed up into a corner covering the only entrance doing a last stand.

3) and due to number 1) they can make impossible shots.. through bush after bush, and even if youre only showing the merest edge of an elbow/arm they will hit you.

[kronzky 5]

1) once the AI has spotted you its impossible to lose them - they will always home in on exactly where you are. They have xray powers. Stand behind a wall and use the squad command view on full outward zoom to see what i mean. This needs to change. i dont mind them having good perceptions.. but cover needs to have 'some' use.

The pure AI doesn't cheat, and it doesn't have X-ray vision.

I does try to predict your movements though, based on what they know about you.

A mission designer, on the other hand, could use the scripting capabilities to give the AI "supernatural" powers (perhaps that's what you saw). But that's the fault of the designer, not the AI's.

2) they can move through urban objects. walls.. buildings.. etc. Id imagine thats this is a way of fudging through the issues of poor urban pathing and stuck AI. But it really ****s me off when they are suddenly standing next to me when im backed up into a corner covering the only entrance doing a last stand.

There may still be some objects that don't have their geometry defined properly (in that case AI could end up walking through it). If you can reproduce those cases (or at least have a screenshot and location of it), please post it on the bug tracker, and it'll hopefully be fixed with the next patch.

[dmarkwick 261]

The times I've seen this activity (AI walking through geometry) is when tracking them from a long distance through scopes. They only seem to walk through garden walls etc, not actual buildings. I suspect that AI have a simpler geometry set to navigate if they're sufficiently far away. At a great distance (especially outside of the viewdistance setting) there's not much difference between making AI walk around a wall and making him walk the extra 3 meters to walk around the wall.

I haven't seen this activity close up, but I have seen them walk through each other.

[OblivionX 0]

Ok.

1.- I DONT HAVE A SYSTEM ENOUGH TO EVEN RUN THE DEMO. Thats for those who say why i dont try the demo.

2.- I am not critisicing, insulting, shouting... I am just posting my OBJECTIVE opinion after what i have seen in youtube. Now, you have cleared that it was an old version, ok.

3.- I would like to know if the AI will get better in the near future, or whether it will stay like that

Please, answer politely, i am not insulting, shouting or talking heavily to anybody. Understand I am new to this game, and I am not a XPert. And that I am talking a FOREIGN language.

Thanks

1. Fair enough. I hope you get a system that runs the game/demo so you can test it for yourself.

2. When you post a topic with the name of "AI = joke" and base it on a 2 minute long youtube video with probably a old version of ArmA you gonna get reactions. Though, I can admit that my previous post in this topic maybe was a little too harsh. Sorry if you took offence in any way.

3. I think(and hope) that ArmA AI will improve in urban warfare by every patch we get. I dont by any means think that the AI is perfect, but it plays pretty good overall as is now. Sure, I pull my hair out when my AI team mates sometimes runs away straight into sights of the enemy.

Have a nice day.

OblivionX

[sandzibar 0]

A mission designer, on the other hand, could use the scripting capabilities to give the AI "supernatural" powers (perhaps that's what you saw). But that's the fault of the designer, not the AI's.

Yip youre right. Just tested it in a basic mission in the editor. The AI only tracks you through walls/buildings when you are within 15m of them. Presumably by sound.. though crawling/walking didnt seem to effect this.

I guess Kiljoy has some extra AI routines/scripts running on his excellent evolution maps.

[dmarkwick 261]

I am just posting my OBJECTIVE opinion after what i have seen in youtube.

Well you say objective, but you pluck one animation out of hundreds of otherwise positive animations and decide that is the showcase. And here we are on page 6 all pimping the game like it actually matters And you cannot even run the game even if you wanted too. coffee time.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]When you post a topic with the name of "AI = joke"

Yes, I have to agree. To the retrospective, untrained eye. Nero could not have played the flames so high

[Dallas 9]

This thread is a joke, the AI isn't.

The AI isn't a problem untill you fail and they spot you. When an AI squad has spotted you, hiding behind bushes wont help you. And hiding for 5 seconds wont make the AI forget you like in all other games.

[max power 21]

2.- I am not critisicing, insulting, shouting... I am just posting my OBJECTIVE opinion after what i have seen in youtube. Now, you have cleared that it was an old version, ok.

Opinions are by definition subjective. Facts are objective. Even opinions based on facts are subjective.

[5133p39 12]

No waypoint will make the AI to lean over corners.

No waypoint, behaviour, formation, or combatmode, will make them move like normal people when crossing a bridge, and so on.

Not true: you can activate any script from a waypoint and

everything would be possible.

Oh yeah, great :-) This, and the one about "talented modders who will make happen everything that BIS won't".

It p**** me off so much, everytime i read this nonsense.

Wake up, people. Not everything can be scripted by the OFP/ArmA scripting engine or it just isn't worth the additional strain on the HW.

Yes, of course, we can make the AI to cross bridges by ANIMATING their movement across the bridge, by using PlayMove or simmilar commands, wow!

I am so glad that the game is SO PERFECT that we can actually script things which should be already done and working in the retail version! Bravo! It's so much fun!

...without exagerating: don't present the lack of features (bad AI) like it is a good thing because then we can do it ourselves. Admit the facts - AI is not good enough (i am not saying it won't be better on day, i hope it will).

Anyway, for example, there is no practical way of scripting the AI movement to make it look life-like (instead of the current precise robotic movement along the predefined pathways - AI inside buildings anyone?), etc.

So, don't tell me that we don't need BIS to make the AI better because we can do it ourselves - the truth is we can't.

And you can't do nothing about that, unless you implement some VERY VERY HEAVY AND HUGE scripting.

And what is the downside on that???

Fact is, you can do it or you can just wait a little bit and let others do it for you (which for 100% is going to happen).

What is the downside???

Downside is, that instead of 60 FPS you will get only 10, because the HW strain of those VERY HUGE SCRIPTS is too much.

Downside is, that you will spend too much of your own precious time on making something, for which you have already paid when you bought the game, and that something wouldn't be too good anyway, because it's not possible to MOD everything.

Downside is, that because of all these things which makes me feel like an idiot when playing the game, my copy of ArmA is gathering dust almost from the very day i bought it - And thats a Downside with very big D.

The so called "talented modders" aren't gods, they can't do everything.

And i feel sorry and disgusted everytime i see any of these MODs or great scripts, no matter how good or ingenious they are, because i see only a Thing which reminds me of how good the game could be (but is not), a Thing which is full of compromises because the scripting/modding possibilities aren't as that great, etc.

[ebud 18]

And i feel sorry and disgusted everytime i see any of these MODs or great scripts, no matter how good or ingenious they are, because i see only a Thing which reminds me of how good the game could be (but is not), a Thing which is full of compromises because the scripting/modding possibilities aren't as that great, etc.

I love manifestos like this. It truly shows how narrow your focus is on the things this sim can't do well rather than on the things it can do, and do very well. There are still quite a few bugs and features not implemented that I would love to see in the game, but for reasons were not. If you want to let it gather dust because of things you perceive as deal-breakers, then that's your loss. This game still can do more on the macro scale than any other milsim on the market. It doesn't do the micro level things as well as other such as the ai shooting around corners, or perfect ai pathing finding in cities, etc, etc, blah blah bah, but name ONE other shooter that attempts to be realistic, has a sandbox mission builder with as many features as this one, has open scripting, gives you the ability to rather easily add anything you want as far as addons, etc etc. You can't because there aren't any yet. It's far from prefect, and if you try and force it to do things it doesn't do well and wasn't made for, then why bother playing, especially if you are frustrated every time you play? Sounds like it will never live up to your expectations.

[Ghost_Zulu 0]

The theory on AI is that they are only as good as thier programer. Because we as humans havent broke the barrier on several technological issues. You can't expect a game to evolve when the minds of men are decades behind other possible civilizations.

In a whole if you realize that we build things based on sales. A toaster for example has evolved only by adding a few new features every year or so. This as a marketing tool that works because it allows revenue for several years so the company can prosper and thier stocks will increase.

Face it, its the year 2007 and all we have new is the abiility to watch videos on our cell phone...WOOHOO.

Every game designer adds, "Better," game designing each time they release a game. If every game were perfect than whatsthe point in buying the latest greatest thing?

OFP AI is yes, decades behind, but than again so are we.

[KaiserPanda 0]

Oh yes, the ArmA AI is terrible because it's a conspiracy to sell Game 2! THAT'S RIGHT!

In truth, this is the best AI currently on the market out of any game. It's astounding even more so in that it's totaly dynamic, where the AI in games like HL2 and FEAR is not.

Stop expecting the AI to act like a human, it just won't happen.

[smellyjelly 0]

I haven't seen this activity close up, but I have seen them walk through each other.

I've seen them do this close up many times, they've walked through fences, cars, and even buildings, (though they may have just cut the corner instead of walking all the way through it). I've also seen them get lost behind the stairs the extend out from one of the orange/brown buildings.

Overall, if you're going to get Armed Assault just for the great AI, you'd be disappointed. While some fans may argue that Armed Assault is actually very advanced, which I understand and agree with, compared to other games with different settings, it's not so great.

The main problem is that the AI won't take cover. They don't seem to react realistically when being placed behind sandbags and shot at. All they do is go prone and wait for the enemy to run right up to them, when they should crouch and return fire.

Maybe I just suck at making missions, and I'll admit that I'm still a noob, but these are just my experiences.

The AI does have some good sides though. They rarely take the same path twice when given options. This makes urban combat fun because the battles always end differently. There's nothing quite like watching a three army battle.

The vehicles need to be improved though. Although the drivers do automatically follow the road, they often swerve off for a second as if there if there is a cat running in front of them. And in my experience, planes also crash often for whatever reasons. These issues bother me and force me to try and limit there role in my missions.

Still, patches are rolling out, so anyone that decides not to get Armed Assault should at least check back on it every so often.

[Chris Death 0]

And i feel sorry and disgusted everytime i see any of these MODs or great scripts, no matter how good or ingenious they are, because i see only a Thing which reminds me of how good the game could be (but is not), a Thing which is full of compromises because the scripting/modding possibilities aren't as that great, etc.

I love manifestos like this. It truly shows how narrow your focus is on the things this sim can't do well rather than on the things it can do, and do very well. There are still quite a few bugs and features not implemented that I would love to see in the game, but for reasons were not. If you want to let it gather dust because of things you perceive as deal-breakers, then that's your loss. This game still can do more on the macro scale than any other milsim on the market. It doesn't do the micro level things as well as other such as the ai shooting around corners, or perfect ai pathing finding in cities, etc, etc, blah blah bah, but name ONE other shooter that attempts to be realistic, has a sandbox mission builder with as many features as this one, has open scripting, gives you the ability to rather easily add anything you want as far as addons, etc etc. You can't because there aren't any yet. It's far from prefect, and if you try and force it to do things it doesn't do well and wasn't made for, then why bother playing, especially if you are frustrated every time you play? Sounds like it will never live up to your expectations.

Thx Ebud, couldn't have said it better.

@5133p39

I totally understand what kind of game you're after - hell i too

would like to see such a game for € 40 or 50.

It's a game like those seen in Star Trek next generation, ya know: holo deck

But i'm afraid we will have to wait still a long time to get our

hands on such a baby - even VBS2 probably won't feature

what you're searching for and look at it's price.

@jolulure:

If you didn't like OFP's ai behaviour in general (no matter

what version), i can't anymore recommend you to buy

a new hardware only to be able to run ArmA.

It doesn't differ too much on that point that it would be

worth for you to upgrade your hw.

If you're one day going to buy new hardware because of

anything else, you still could give ArmA a try just to convince

yourself.

~S~ CD