AI = joke

[Chris Death 0]

i dont seem to understand.

So you need to download mods, scripts... for playing the game ok? doesnt the official stuff work well?

So for example, in any official SP campaign mission, will there be AI problems?

Sorry for making a dbl-post now but i fear by editing my

previous post it could get a little bit confusing and overseen.

No, you don't need to download scripts or mods - you can:

a) make them for yourself

b) improve the ai by using the mission editor and use

it the right way (not like been done in that video)

c) download missions, which got a decent review

and ratings

Don't expect the basic missions to be uber since they should

be seen more like a suggestion for mission makers of how

they should set up their scenarios.

The strength is in the ingame editor and in the comunity

made missions.

btw - after a while you will start downloading addons

over and over because they add such a greater atmosphere

to your or other ppl's scenarios.

:edit

Quote[/b] ]No waypoint will make the AI to lean over corners.

No waypoint, behaviour, formation, or combatmode, will make them move like normal people when crossing a bridge, and so on.

Not true: you can activate any script from a waypoint and

everything would be possible.

Quote[/b] ]

And you can't do nothing about that, unless you implement some VERY VERY HEAVY AND HUGE scripting.

And what is the downside on that

Fact is, you can do it or you can just wait a little bit

and let others do it for you (which for 100% is going to happen).

I don't understand why you even wrote your last comment

in capitals - it looks to me only like you're searching for reasons how to call it a bad game.

Question here was: is it going to become better

Answer is straight: YES

~S~ CD

[4 IN 1 0]

nuff said

[Chris Death 0]

nuff said

Sorry, but i can't share your feelings 4in1.

He would have to upgrade all his hardware and he asks

wether it's getting or is better than what he've seen

on that idiotic video.

In every case the ai in ArmA is more smart than some funny thought comments of it's comunity.

~S~ CD

[NeMeSiS 11]

No, the default AI behaviour just needs to be properly 'activated'.

If you want the AI to walk around in an area looking for enemies, you give them a 'search and destroy waypoint'. If you want them to defend a position, you give them a 'guard','hold' or 'sentry' waypoint.

The person who made the video is just a bad mission editor and uses flawed ways of testing the AI. He probably didnt give them any waypoint at all, in which case the AI does nothing (Except for returning fire and laying on the ground, and sometimes does a random attemp to flank the enemy)

You misunderstood what i was refering to:

'search and destroy' waypoint doesn't make the AI to use cover,

neither will 'guard', 'hold', 'sentry' or any other waypoint. Their only idea of cover is lying flat on the ground, waiting to be killed.

No waypoint will make the AI to lean over corners.

No waypoint, behaviour, formation, or combatmode, will make them move like normal people when crossing a bridge, and so on.

Watch AI moving inside the multistory hotel building - slowly creeping right along the path defined inside the p3d model of the building, not deviating a single milimeter off the path, unable to avoid each other even if there is plenty space around, etc.

And you can't do nothing about that, unless you implement some VERY VERY HEAVY AND HUGE scripting.

I wasnt talking to you, you just posted while i was typing and i didnt quote jolulure

EDIT:

Quote[/b] ]Question here was: is it going to become better

Answer is straight: YES

But jololure also needs to understand that anyone with a tiny bit of knowledge about mission making can make the AI act better then it did in the video without any imrpovements made by BI or the community.

To be honest, if that video is supposed to be an AI test video then the person who made it is retarted or he wanted to make the AI look bad on purpose.

[karantan 0]

In every case the ai in ArmA is more smart than some funny thought comments of it's comunity.

Don't bet too much on that CD! But yes the 4in1 comment was a full kick in the mist.

And I have a feeling jolulure is asking more about the AI 'as it is', not some 'user scipted/tweaked' AI, I don't have a feeling he's ready and have an intention to wait on all these patches and all that community stuff or whatever, he wants just to play a game, with a 'smart' AI (from a square one) if possible. And in such case ,,, momentarily I can't peronally to recommend a game to him.

[4 IN 1 0]

nuff said

Sorry, but i can't share your feelings 4in1.  

He would have to upgrade all his hardware and he asks

wether it's getting or is better than what he've seen

on that idiotic video.

In every case the ai in ArmA is more smart than some funny thought comments of it's comunity.

~S~ CD

yes i fully understand that he need to have a complete upgrade of all his hardware

but that didnt mean that he is correct to base complain on videos

sorry if this is "that" offending, but after reading this post for a hold day, it get to go nowhere other then being the same thing as in the pic

BTW: no this is not my first attempt

[Chris Death 0]

nuff said

Sorry, but i can't share your feelings 4in1.  

He would have to upgrade all his hardware and he asks

wether it's getting or is better than what he've seen

on that idiotic video.

In every case the ai in ArmA is more smart than some funny thought comments of it's comunity.

~S~ CD

yes i fully understand that upgrade all his hardware

but that didnt mean that he is correct to base complain on videos

Then show him something better instead of your first

atempt.  

No offense meant btw - but it makes our comunity appear

in a bad light when answering like you did.

Quote[/b] ]

And I have a feeling jolulure is asking more about the AI 'as it is', not some 'user scipted/tweaked' AI, I don't have a feeling he's ready and have an intention to wait on all these patches and all that community stuff or whatever, he wants just to play a game, with a 'smart' AI (from a square one) if possible. And in such case ,,, momentarily I can't peronally to recommend a game to him.

Off course he means by default but that's only because

he doesn't no too much about OFP/ArmA than what he has

seen in that poor video.

Long time users do well know that it's not like that and that

well configured ai can act better even without

any updates from BIS - that's a fact.

And i did never encounter people being unhappy about

this - the more i remember lot's of smileys when some

user made ai enhancement has arrived.

~S~ CD

[jolulure 0]

but when you are playing a Official Campaign mission you dont need to edit, do you?

[Chris Death 0]

but when you are playing a Official Campaign mission you dont need to edit, do you?

No

~S~ CD

[Mr_Tea 0]

but when you are playing a Official Campaign mission you dont need to edit, do you?

Sorry, but no one has bought Arma for the Official Campaign.

The strength of Arma is the unbeatable editor, combined with community made new stuff.

[karantan 0]

but when you are playing a Official Campaign mission you dont need to edit, do you?

Of course you don't need that (now that would be something weird! ), but I think you'll be dissapointed playing it; the official campaign sucks.

Many dudes here are just forgetting that not all the potential new ArmA players will be a part of this community (mission/addon makers, scripting gurus, plain spammers, whatever ,,,), so sometimes their answers on a very basic questions from dudes like you can appear a bit 'strange' (to those potential new players) , and that they (the potential new players) haven't the intention to wait that the game later develop/shows 'its full potential'.

Sorry, but no one has bought Arma for the Official Campaign.  

The strength of Arma is the unbeatable editor, combined with community made new stuff.

Now that's your point of the view and you should understand that not all are looking on the game like this/like you.

[Mr_Tea 0]

Yes, for others it`s all about online gaming.

Even here Arma do have very nice features, like JIP and the great CTI game mode.

[jolulure 0]

oops sorry, that question above was referring to a "page 3" post, dindt notice we where already in "page 4"

About "4in1", i dont want to waste my time talking to him.

Thanks Chris Death.

Actually, i have OF Cold war crisis (I bought it the day it came out) but never liked it because the AI (seems like i am a AI maniac:D ), it seemed too Selfish and didnt care about the team.

Since i have played OF 1.0 (i suppose) i now imagine there are tons of add-ons and stuff for AI and such. So if you could just post the names of good add-ons i would be very grateful.

[karantan 0]

Yes and there're even those (like jolulure I reckon) which would just like to play it, as a game, can you belive that?  

[NeMeSiS 11]

Yes and there're even those (like jolulure I reckon) which would just like to play it, as a game, can you belive that?  

But if he would play MP then he would probably end up playing usermade missions on the server, even though he didnt have to touch the mission editor he cannot avoid community made content.

[crashdome 3]

@jolulure

I am completely with you on this one, but I have a different situation. To help answer your question, I will answer with a very concrete and blunt response

... just wait before you buy it.

All this AI nonsense is not going to guarantee you what you want. I see what type on game player you are and for what you want, ArmA doesn't deliver. I feel the same way. However, this does not make ArmA AI *stupid*. It is simply a different animal. Everyone else is trying to defend or manipulate the AI into something you want which is just not true. You want AI to behave such that it provides a good SP experience in the scripted campaign. Everyone else has already confirmed the SP campaign is bad enough. The real reason to buy ArmA is for it's flexibility as an engine... not as a new FPS. This is not what you want.

I am patient enough to wait for what I want... but what I want is more editing capabilities. What you want is better AI. This is what makes you and I different and why I will buy it but you shouldn't.

The AI you want may come soon, it may never come... the community might make good campaigns and SP missions that are exactly what you want... they may not...  your best option is to wait and keep a close eye on what is going on.

Trying to boil your decision down to whether AI is "good" according to your subjective needs is not the way to make a decision. Instead, wait it out. Especially if it means buying a new system.

It won't disappear... we'll all be here when you are ready.

@others

Seriously... 5 pages to convice one guy to buy a game?

I applaud your conviction!

[kronzky 5]

Anybody who claims that AI doesn't use cover has probably never closely examined their behaviour.

Yes, they don't duck up and down behind a box, like they do in a lot of other shooters (and where you just wait for them to stick their head out the next time, and then blow them away. Big improvement!.

But they definitely use terrain cover to their advantage when advancing (and you don't even have to tell them to do that).

Here's a screenshot from an AI unit advancing on a player.

The only command the AI got was to first move to the spot left of the road (near the black spot), and then to the area SW of the player. As you will see the AI is not just taking the straightest and shortest path, but is independently moving from bush to bush, in order to minimize his exposure. Nothing in that behaviour is scripted! This is a totally autonomous decision by the AI!

[karantan 0]

@Kronzky - We saw something of this also in OFP, yes?

@others

Seriously... 5 pages to convice one guy to buy a game?

I applaud your conviction!

We're just killing out time spamming.    Welcome to the party!  

[Mr_Tea 0]

oops sorry, that question above was referring to a "page 3" post, dindt notice we where already in "page 4"

About "4in1", i dont want to waste my time talking to him.

Thanks Chris Death.

Actually, i have OF Cold war crisis (I bought it the day it came out) but never liked it because the AI (seems like i am a AI maniac:D ), it seemed too Selfish and didnt care about the team.

Since i have played OF 1.0 (i suppose) i now imagine there are tons of add-ons and stuff for AI and such. So if you could just post the names of good add-ons i would be very grateful.

You should buy the Resistance addon, that is available @Amazon for ~3€.

Than patch OFP Resistance to 1.96 and you`ll find tons of good mods to play.

[wamingo 1]

I wouldn't ever gotten ArmA if I was looking for AI-based entertainment, namely singleplayer or hybrid SP (shoot AI online). The game is good for human vs human combat though.

That's an Utterly subjective opinion, of course.

The game is good for human vs ai too.

I wouldn't ever have bothered with arma if it didn't handle AI online. So there. ArmA is (almost entirely) unique because outside the RTS genre there are no games that handles AI online, at all. And it does a fine job at it too.

It could be better!

But then... So could everything...

True, the AI can be terribly dumb at times and has many inabilities that can make it a dull opponent in dull designed missions. And a single AI, given no advantages, is of course no substitute for a player (a completely daft demand anyway) the AI can, given the tools and numbers, easily be more challenging than anyone ought to shake a stick at.

[ArmaVidz 0]

AI has been improved. I would buy the game for SP only as well.

As an ex-online-BF2 player it's hard to comprahend playing offline, but the SP is awesome. Especially if you learn to use the editor.

Worth every penny. Purchasing a new computer for SP...??? I dunno about that. Of course, everyone should have a brand-spankin' new computer anyway imo...

[funnyguy1 0]

Buy the game first, then if you like it, you'll buy a new pc, if not, you can always sell the game. No big deal Does it matter if it's ArmA or The Sims 50?

Besides, AI isn't that bad.

[Second 0]

The only thing you can really say about the infantry ai is that they react as if they are in a open or woodland environment in every situation. If you are in a slightly hilly wooded to open area the ai is superb. In a dense urban environment it has some issues, but since this game has ALWAYS been about open outdoor RURAL combined arms combat, the way the ai acts in urban combat doesn't bother me as much as most. Seeing how the ai in this game can and HAS to do sooooo many different tasks I can live with the good and the bad and try to limit my experience with the bad by NOT creating or playing missions that try to make the ai does things it was never intended to do. If I want great urban combat there are several other games that can do it well. They on the the hand cannot do large scale combined arms missions in an open environment.

I worship you, that almost the same what i would have typed.

I play the game mostly in SP... Well, about half the time i'm making missions to entertain myself. And ArmA's mission editor it quite easy to start with. If any one is that kind of person that he enjoys of fast mission making and instant "test drive", then ArmA is enjoyable for a long time.

And ofcourse ArmA is suitable for those who like to create their mission for days/weeks/mouths.

[ebud 18]

If anyone expects Vegas/Graw/Swat4/RVS etc type CQB to ever be in this game/engine I think they're fooling themselves.

Again, if you play or design missions that play to the games strengths then you'll likely to very rarely be dissapointed by the AI, but if you try to make complex urban missions and expect the game to play out like any one of the the above CQB games you will be disappointed. Then again I can't fly a helo 10km and drop of a sniper team on a mountain to provide cover for a combined arms assault in the above games either. Nor can I command a platoon of M1's in a desert against T72s either. I think complaining about the faults of the AI in CQB situations is TOTALLY overlooking what this game is about.

[shataan 1]

"If anyone expects Vegas/Graw/Swat4/RVS etc "

I don`t want anything like those games. That is why I play FP/ArmA.... lol Sort of a no brainer.