Jet Fighters

[MehMan 0]

The unwillingness to share in how to convert OFP addons into ArmA is I think seriously undermining the full potential of the ArmA MOD making community given the MASSIVE amount of high quality addons that were made for OFP.  

Err....nobody is keeping any secrets. If you knew how to make stuff in OFP then you know how to make it in ArmA. Very little has changed. The BRBSEB tutorials are the ones that can help you along.

There was never a MASSIVE ammount of high quality addons in OFP. There was a decent ammount, but massive never.

[miles teg 1]

Thats my whole point...there is precious little information on HOW TO CONVERT the addons from OFP.  Thus most of us don't know how and those that do are keeping those secrets near and dear to their hearts.  

To DM:

First of all, you misunderstand me.  I am NOT against reducing section count and what not.  I also must say that I HAVE TRIED LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER to learn all this shit within the scarce time I have (I work and go to grad school).  You have exactly the type of elitist mentality I'm talking about.  Its the survival of the fittest mentality that BIS encourages.  That translates to fewer addons and a vastly smaller addon making community.  If thats what you want, then hey more power to ya.  Eventually the rest of us will likely move on to do other things.

What you don't seem to get is that many of us simply DO NOT HAVE THE TALENT nor the training or tutorials in making a quality addon.  Do you make addons?  If so please write tutorials so that people like myself can better utilize our time trying to learn all of this stuff rather then being told how badly our addons suck.     Would you prefer that my mod just quit because we're not "up to your standard?"

As for quanitity vs. quality, you are oversimplifying the arguement.   Its not about quantity.  Its about getting stuff out there and THEN IMPROVING IT so at least missions can be made and players can be happy at least to have something.

Plus you get alot of feedback as far as what needs improving.

Like it or not, most players don't like waiting months if not years for addons and mods.  In OFP, some sadly missed the boat completely like the Falklands Mod that was released just as OFP was dying with most players defecting over to ArmA or other games.

Sadly aside from a few addon makers and mods, this seems to be now the trend in ArmA.  

Thank God that there are still some ArmA addon makers who are making the effort to help out other less skilled addon makers and mods who lack dedicated addon makers.    

At any rate, if you have the luxury of spending hours learning ever minute aspect of addon making for ArmA, and you have the intelligence and coding skills to understand cpp configurations, then that is fantastic.  Not all of us have those skills or time.  Its not about instant gratification.  Its just a simple lack of resources.  That doesn't make us love the game any less.

That is why we need more tutorials so as to allow time to be better utilized by those of us struggling to make or improve our addons whether they be original ArmA addons or OFP conversions that we're editing so that they work well in ArmA.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[MehMan 0]

Thats my whole point...there is precious little information on HOW TO CONVERT the addons from OFP.  Thus most of us don't know how and those that do are keeping those secrets near and dear to their hearts.  

Nobody is keeping secrets, there are no secrets! I already told you how to do it, I'm not going to do it for you!

It's not hard if you knew how to make addons in OFP. If not, first take a quick look at BRBSEB. It has some basic info about coding. You can keep all your selections and memory points the same as in OFP, then all you have to do is define them in the model.cfg. The basic config is not very different from the OFP config.

[Wolfrug 0]

Going on a bit of a tangent here, aren't we? I'll just continue with that

Just a short comment: Yes, directly ported OFP addons will not be optimized for the ArmA engine, and yes, having a big bunch of them will cause serious lag. But the only unit type you will ever have in larger numbers will be infantry: and I don't think I've seen a single direct port of OFP infantry with the exception of SLX's example people.

I don't know about all that addon-hoohah speak, but I've played the RHS Hind quite a lot of times, and except for the fact it's AI is a bit borked and it needs a little weapon upgrade, the thing works flawlessly and looks beautiful - unoptimized as it is. I don't know what kind of missions most people are making and playing, but it's very rare to use more than one or two helicopters, or a couple of tanks.

Besides, if an addon is unoptimized and starts lagging after placing more than 10 of them on the map, then don't use that many! Wait until the addon-maker optimizes it. Still means all the missions up to 9 units will work fine. Maybe it's not possible to realistically create a huge tank-battle or a massive helicopter invasion or a squadron of dozens of fighter jets: even one is usually enough though.

I'm with Miles Teg on this one: yes blah blah quality over quantity blah blah. Look at OFP, dig into ofp.info's oldest archives, find the config-mods and the retexes. Or hell, just look at most of the stuff that's out there in some archive or other: it ain't pretty, but it works.

Addons are -not- made to look nice on photography threads, and they're -not- made to look perfect when zipping around with them in-game. They're made for missions. Missions cannot be made before they addons are released. Look at Vilas' WW2 units and weapons: they're far from perfect, and the version prior to the current were equally far from perfect, but hey: they work.

And finally, as Miles teg says: release now, receive comments, improve for the better. Hell : half the time you'll inspire some fellow addon-maker/texture-artist to help you out. In the meantime, allow mission-makers to do their thing. Everyone's happy.

Anyway. Pardon the little sidetracking.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[PSYCHOSIM 0]

Looking forward to that F16 of Footmunch's, will it have different weapon load outs like in OFP?

[NoRailgunner 0]

Hopefully some aircraft arrive in ArmA. Maybe some of them will not be that beautiful with initial release but they have to work ingame first. Who says that addon makers won't improve and optimize their own work? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

@Miles Teg

Quote[/b] ]I disagree 100%. There was nothing wrong with most of the planes in OFP. Yes they didn't have all the fancy specular mapping, etc... of ArmA, but that can be fixed by some texture artists who know what they're doing. My mod has put out what is considered "shit" by ArmA standards and yet so far few have complained. Why? Because they still look fairly decent and provide a nice addon until someone makes from scratch a better version or we further enhance our current addons.

Once again - almost all _ofp_ ported model will look like crap in Arma. Yes, you can remake and update textures, but textures are 90% of addon work and i can't remember ofp addon with textures good enough to fit in arma. Can remember smth ? You are welcome to post models/textures here - putting them ingame to 'look at' is question of minutes I guess it will put the ddiscussion out of flaming a little

You wonna play with crap ? Can i ask you why you moved to arma at all ? It's far not the best engine available atm and there're very little gameplay improvements if you compare it with ofp You wonna play the same in Arma as in OFP ? Why not just play ofp ?

And if don't want to wait... there's vbs at least, if you got money to waste - buy it and forget about your problems with this game

[.kju 3245]

... lovely your talk ...

Miles Teg keep up your spirit!

Good textures from OFP do look good in ArmA too.

Its very simple to make simple normals.

Merging textures is also VERY easy (sections).

So what are you talking about?

Get down to the details or get lost.

This is a game to play. At least most people outside of this

forum do!

So its down to gameplay and features. People only want

graphics not be ugly. They do NOT care about the fancy graphics.

Spare us with your trash talk please.

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ]Good textures from OFP do look good in ArmA too.

Its very simple to make simple normals.

ghm... You mean generating normal from diffuse textures ? Results are wierd if you don't have psd souce with layers

Quote[/b] ]Good textures from OFP do look good in ArmA too.

examples exact ones. let's put good ones in game and see if i'm right - then maybe i'll get my words back

[PSYCHOSIM 0]

Take it somewhere else please, you can discuss the pros and cons of ofp content in ArmA elsewhere..............

This topic should be about any upcoming aircraft for ArmA

[MaxRiga 0]

Looking forward to that F16 of Footmunch's, will it have different weapon load outs like in OFP?

I wonder why he's not making his own post about his f16. From other side, it's much better to open post before the release but not like Gnat who opened his posts about his addons year ago but still release nothing.

As I remember Footmunch made lot of good planes in OFP, just wonder will he make Air Fleet for Arma too?

[ShadowY 0]

Quote[/b] ] i can't remember ofp addon with textures good enough to fit in arma

You probably never played alot with OFPaddons did ya!?

I think Scars/acwc_SU-30mk will fit in nicely to name only one

But the point is who will look so close at the textures when your flying a mission or see one fly by when your on the ground fighting ai

[wld427 1705]

CheyanneAH64 was working on a yak-38 in another forum

Can you tell which forum that is, please?

armedassault.info

[wld427 1705]

Miles i in no way meant ti insult or point out deficiencies in the VTE stuff. I use thier aircraft all the time in my missions (except the mig-19 it dances on the ground) i was just pointing out they are Beta and need to be completed. i think the textures look fine and if you want to see every rivit on the A-6 then go to the museum. I liek the OFP stuff. When was the last time you were playing a mission as the SLA and when the damn harrier showed up and blasted your ass the detail of the light on the rear vertical stabilizer was important.

it still comes back to if you dont like the product. don't download it and leave the people alone that made it.

[miles teg 1]

No offense taken.  I agree.  There are alot of addons made for ArmA that I don't like and don't download (and don't talk trash about them).   But I suppose its healthy to express opinions. For sure there's alot wrong with the VTE stuff, but I think they're doing a great job on fixing everything up and getting some nice looking stuff into ArmA.  

To Astanid:

You sir, are just trolling.  By the looks of when you joined this forum, you haven't been around very long.  If you have been, you would know that there are massive differences between OFP and ArmA.  ArmA started off on a rocky start, but with the latest patches has a ton of significant improvements in soldier animations, graphics engine, environmental realism, aircraft flight characteristics, AI characteristics, etc...etc...

That sir is why I switched.   When it comes to texture port quality, that can be highly subjective and I'm not going to get into an immature pissing match comparing other people's addons who put alot of work and heart into them.

Back to the topic...JETS.   I suppose the biggest thing missing is an unbinarized finished jet addon that is made properly according to BIS standards.  That at least goes a long way to helping others learn how to make a proper jet in ArmA (from scratch or from an OFP conversion) by using the finished one as a template.  

I can't wait to see more jets in ArmA.  The F-16 Footmunch is working on will definitely be a good multi-purpose plane that is used by alot of countries and can be used in a lot of different types of missions.  A good adversary would be a Mig-29 or Su-27 (or some old school Mig-21 or Mig-23 fighters).  

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[surpher 1]

To Astanid:

You sir, are just trolling. By the looks of when you joined this forum, you haven't been around very long.

i think Astanid been around a while, just under a different name, or should that be names

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

...I suppose the biggest thing missing is an unbinarized finished jet addon that is made properly according to BIS standards.  That at least goes a long way to helping others learn how to make a proper jet in ArmA (from scratch or from an OFP conversion) by using the finished one as a template.  

...

The BIS A10 in the sample pack is a gold mine mate. That is exactly what you want.

[miles teg 1]

Last I checked it was without a config....oh wait a sec... you can use that one unBin tool to get at the configs..... hmm... I'll have to check it out. Right now the goal for my mod is to have at least a small air/land/sea pack as a foundation to grow from. A jet is really sorely missing from my mod so I'm hoping to convert our F-16I Sufa (enhanced version of Footmunch's older OFP F-16 model with a large dorsal spine and conformal fuel tanks) with which one of our mod members (Jewish Freak) has made new ArmA textures for. The only problem is that we're having problems converting it. I need to take a look at that A-10 again and see what I can glean from it.

Thanks for the reminder. Much appreciated.

Chris G.

Miles-Teg<GD>

[wld427 1705]

Last I checked it was without a config....oh wait a sec...  you can use that one unBin tool to get at the configs.....   hmm...  I'll have to check it out.   Right now the goal for my mod is to have at least a small air/land/sea pack as a foundation to grow from.  A jet is really sorely missing from my mod so I'm hoping to convert our F-16I Sufa (enhanced version of Footmunch's older OFP F-16 model with a large dorsal spine and conformal fuel tanks) with which one of our mod members (Jewish Freak) has made new ArmA textures for.  The only problem is that we're having problems converting it.   I need to take a look at that A-10 again and see what I can glean from it.  

Thanks for the reminder.  Much appreciated.

Chris G.

Miles-Teg<GD>

Miles take a look at Kegety's unWrap tool instead. I was working or GranQs Be32k for our mod and UnBin kept creating errors int the config.

[UNN 0]

Quote[/b] ]Last I checked it was without a config....oh wait a sec...  you can use that one unBin tool to get at the configs.....   hmm...  I'll have to check it out.

I have the Arma BI A10, setup as a standalone addon with it's own anim config. If you want that, then send me a PM.

[miles teg 1]

Thanks for the offer.  Yeah I could definitely use the MLOD/unPBO'ed version of the A-10.  I'm not interested in modifying it or posting it anywhere, just in learning from it as I seek to piece together bits and pieces of tutorials.  

Thanks buddy! Hopefully that'll help in converting OFP fighter planes in the LoBo OFP mod which I hope to further enhance with the newer texture features available in ArmA as soon as I figure out the best way to put the specular, etc... mapped textures into the config properly. I've alrady done the texture normal, specular, etc...mapping but am just having trouble with the config part so I can test and adjust the settings. But thats another thread that I need to post on the editing section of the forum. At any rate, I appreciate the help.  (PM sent)

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[RN Malboeuf 12]

Quote[/b] ] I liek the OFP stuff. When was the last time you were playing a mission as the SLA and when the damn harrier showed up and blasted your ass the detail of the light on the rear vertical stabilizer was important.

if you don't wat to fly it and just want to see it high in the sky... you don't need cockpit, you don't need any good textures, i guess you can even use 2nd,3rd distance lod for your addon. In this case you're right. But if you want flyable stuff... that's another deal, and poor ofp models won't be as good

[ShadowY 0]

I saw this week the ported WIP version of the plane and it looked just as crappy as it did in OFP astanid

*edit posted one of my own but the guy whom showed me the video took it off utube, probably because on the end there was more WIP to see as only the plane.

Or he hoped I would had share it but was dissapointed I didn`t

[nastros 0]

nice very nice

[PSYCHOSIM 0]

Nice, we need that ingame............