Glad that BIS didn't give in to 'Ragdoll'

[Commie 0]

Yes, there is a place for the Ragdoll effect I guess, just that in most games I've seen the bodies fly and contort in all sorts of weird ways. In FEAR many a time the bodies kind of sit on the ground and fold backwards or the bodies hang by the head through some stairs etc. or as in Far Cry where you shoot someone and he's still sliding down the hill after a time minutes later.

I guess the problem for me is that weight and gravity don't have much impact as in reality. Throw a grenade into a room of dead bodies in Half Life or FEAR and watch the bodies fly around. Shoot a guy in the stomach and watch him fly backwards, arms and legs straight out in front.

'Heatseeker' is right: Ragdoll makes bodies look weightless!

Having seen footage of sniper kills and grenade explosions against prone soldiers in Iraq, you really can see that people more often than not seem to just crumple to the ground, they don't fly all over the place as in most FPS games.

Of course a few more animations based on where you hit a soldier and how he is moving would be ok, but to be honest, I had no trouble in OFP with repetitive death animations. I do however have a lot of problems with seeing bodies fly through the air in other FPS, no matter how many different ways they land!

Quote[/b] ]What I dearly would like to see is some way to switch from animation x to a death animation instantly, for example it's rather silly to watch AT soldiers finish reloading their weapons and then fall down dead.

KillaALF is right and this is what I was getting at with the delay between getting shot and dying. In OFP it seemed instant, but depending on what the soldier is doing in ArmA, he can take a bit more time before he 'dies'. often I didn't know I had killed at first because of this.

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

The most hilarious non-ragdoll death animation slugfest can be found playing the "The Specialists" mod for Half-Life 1. Besides having one of the smartest bullet-time implementations, it portrays death poses without ragdoll or havok. It is an excellent showcase on how death animations can look "wrong". Nevertheless, I must agree that OFP's death anims look spot on and feel right, given the scale and drama of the wide open battlefields that OFP and ArmA provide.

[Wolfrug 0]

Slightly OT:

@Tracer

The SLX mod for OFP, which you are certainly familiar with, allowed you to drag around both KIA and WIA units, even if the animation wasn't the -best- (very nicely done nonetheless), nor did it represent "actual" rag-doll effects (like in Hitman, where you'd constantly try to fit those dead bastards into random small spaces and watch their legs bend out of shape ). Point is though, that through animations and mods, it's -very- possible in ArmA/OFP to allow very good-looking and utilitarian and upmost of all non-lag inducing transportation and hiding of bodies. All we need now is a "naked person" addon to represent stealing clothes

As to ragdolls : Cool, but not necessary.

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

1.05

Quote[/b] ]5124 - New: playerKilledScript entry in the description.ext of the mission can override this entry in the config

could this be the change we are talking abou`, or is this something else?

[Tracer 0]

Slightly OT:

@Tracer

The SLX mod for OFP, which you are certainly familiar with, allowed you to drag around both KIA and WIA units, even if the animation wasn't the -best- (very nicely done nonetheless), nor did it represent "actual" rag-doll effects (like in Hitman, where you'd constantly try to fit those dead bastards into random small spaces and watch their legs bend out of shape ). Point is though, that through animations and mods, it's -very- possible in ArmA/OFP to allow very good-looking and utilitarian and upmost of all non-lag inducing transportation and hiding of bodies. All we need now is a "naked person" addon to represent stealing clothes  

As to ragdolls : Cool, but not necessary.

Regards,

Wolfrug

Now that's a well constructed post.

Quote[/b] ]All we need now is a "naked person" addon to represent stealing clothes

Ho,ho. I didn't want to say that here -lot's of sensitive folks

Cheers

[urbanwarrior 0]

What I dearly would like to see is some way to switch from animation x to a death animation instantly, for example it's rather silly to watch AT soldiers finish reloading their weapons and then fall down dead.

Sadly in real life that is sometimes the case.......

The human nervous system can function on for several seconds autonimously, even although the damage is catastrophic!

The fastest nerve speed is around 180mph -compare that to a bullet or a dozen or more traveling at several thousand feet per second!! It appears to you -since you are firing the gun (within the game) at the enemy- you see dozens of tracer rounds go through an enemy, but by the time the nervous system catches up it appears an eternity -headshot exception.

BIS have captured that part very realisticaly.

Read any real-life tale of war or scenario and you will come across many similar stories as above.

Back on subject;

Rag Doll physics are in some of my enjoyable games.

Splinter Cell,Oblivion,Hidden & Dangerous 2 and Raven Shield and even GRAW.

The sheer random element of shooting or blowing up the enemy on stairs,vehicles,bridges,ladders,towers etc (a good programmer doesn't get collision problems) makes for a rewarding experience in a true gamers book.

However it's not just about death..

Example:

Take a simple thing like special ops, how do you hide a body in ArmA or OFP? Well it just 'dissolves' into the ground doesn't it. Not exactly realistic and another minus point to ArmA & OFPs stiff body poses!

However, play H&D2 or Splinter Cell and it becomes a game in itself! Why? because the AI can detect bodies.

Change into uniforms also ads another element.

So HAVOK does add a whole new 'proper' gameplay -not just because of realistic deaths.

get a bloody grip of yourself, i hardly think BI programmed in a delay between being shot or blown up by a grenade and the then falling down dead in order to simulate the speed of our nervous system! thats the dumbest thing i've heard in some time. Lets see what happens then if someone slots you with a 160 grain rifle bullet through the chest at 150yds, we'll count how many times you can reload an RPG before your nervous system tells you to die

[Col. Faulkner 0]

The one that always makes me laugh is how an officer will

get shot, carefully put away his binoculars and only then

topple over. Cracks me up every time that one!  

[urbanwarrior 0]

i personally like the satchel charge next to a soldier then set it off and he goes in to DEATH MODE animation in mid air

[Maddmatt 1]

...

The first 2 Splinter Cell games didn't have ragdoll physics. Picking up bodies doesn't use ragdoll effects, it's just an animation (except for Hitman-style dragging corpses).

So your suggestions don't really have anything to do with ragdoll physics.

[Tracer 0]

What I dearly would like to see is some way to switch from animation x to a death animation instantly, for example it's rather silly to watch AT soldiers finish reloading their weapons and then fall down dead.

Sadly in real life that is sometimes the case.......

The human nervous system can function on for several seconds autonimously, even although the damage is catastrophic!

The fastest nerve speed is around 180mph -compare that to a bullet or a dozen or more traveling at several thousand feet per second!! It appears to you -since you are firing the gun (within the game) at the enemy- you see dozens of tracer rounds go through an enemy, but by the time the nervous system catches up it appears an eternity -headshot exception.

BIS have captured that part very realisticaly.

Read any real-life tale of war or scenario and you will come across many similar stories as above.

Back on subject;

Rag Doll physics are in some of my enjoyable games.

Splinter Cell,Oblivion,Hidden & Dangerous 2 and Raven Shield and even GRAW.

The sheer random element of shooting or blowing up the enemy on stairs,vehicles,bridges,ladders,towers etc (a good programmer doesn't get collision problems) makes for a rewarding experience in a true gamers book.

However it's not just about death..

Example:

Take a simple thing like special ops, how do you hide a body in ArmA or OFP? Well it just 'dissolves' into the ground doesn't it. Not exactly realistic and another minus point to ArmA & OFPs stiff body poses!

However, play H&D2 or Splinter Cell and it becomes a game in itself! Why? because the AI can detect bodies.

Change into uniforms also ads another element.

So HAVOK does add a whole new 'proper' gameplay -not just because of realistic deaths.

get a bloody grip of yourself, i hardly think BI programmed in a delay between being shot or blown up by a grenade and the then falling down dead in order to simulate the speed of our nervous system! thats the dumbest thing i've heard in some time. Lets see what happens then if someone slots you with a 160 grain rifle bullet through the chest at 150yds, we'll count how many times you can reload an RPG before your nervous system tells you to die

Oh yeah forgot, your mister 'Dirty Harry' -drop 'em every time eh.

Been shooting tooooo many rabbits and drinking the falling down water...

You are an idiot! Try and actualy come out your dream world and watch LIVE real TV!!

There is footage of an insurgent (on the net that i aint linking to) that was aiming an RPG at an American unit -kneeling in the street.

The US unit put 1 tracer round right through the centre of his chest (it exited his back struck the road and richocheted off) he dropped the RPG and sat there with his legs outstretched infront of himself leaning back on both hands (like he was sunbathing) The next round hit him in the head and he winced, then another round went through his chest -again exiting his back- finaly, another round hit and broke his arm and he fell backwards bouncing his head on the ground. Whether he was still alive or not, proves that in your dream world, people don't drop dead like shooting tin cans.

It's called 'delay' mr dreamer, before trauma. WHich is why i said a headshot is the only sure way to drop someone.

Besides the 5.56mm round isn't exactly a stopper compaired to a 7.62mm.

Anyway, now you've mouthed off, you can go back to your dream of dropping people from 3miles away with your 160 grain rifle bullet and then bragging about it at your local watering hole....

Here's a professional quote for your pipe!

Quote[/b] ]Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

Have a read over this over a beer or two. Not so far fetched at all eh?

[4 IN 1 0]

What I dearly would like to see is some way to switch from animation x to a death animation instantly, for example it's rather silly to watch AT soldiers finish reloading their weapons and then fall down dead.

Sadly in real life that is sometimes the case.......

The human nervous system can function on for several seconds autonimously, even although the damage is catastrophic!

The fastest nerve speed is around 180mph -compare that to a bullet or a dozen or more traveling at several thousand feet per second!! It appears to you -since you are firing the gun (within the game) at the enemy- you see dozens of tracer rounds go through an enemy, but by the time the nervous system catches up it appears an eternity -headshot exception.

BIS have captured that part very realisticaly.

Read any real-life tale of war or scenario and you will come across many similar stories as above.

Back on subject;

Rag Doll physics are in some of my enjoyable games.

Splinter Cell,Oblivion,Hidden & Dangerous 2 and Raven Shield and even GRAW.

The sheer random element of shooting or blowing up the enemy on stairs,vehicles,bridges,ladders,towers etc (a good programmer doesn't get collision problems) makes for a rewarding experience in a true gamers book.

However it's not just about death..

Example:

Take a simple thing like special ops, how do you hide a body in ArmA or OFP? Well it just 'dissolves' into the ground doesn't it. Not exactly realistic and another minus point to ArmA & OFPs stiff body poses!

However, play H&D2 or Splinter Cell and it becomes a game in itself! Why? because the AI can detect bodies.

Change into uniforms also ads another element.

So HAVOK does add a whole new 'proper' gameplay -not just because of realistic deaths.

get a bloody grip of yourself, i hardly think BI programmed in a delay between being shot or blown up by a grenade and the then falling down dead in order to simulate the speed of our nervous system! thats the dumbest thing i've heard in some time. Lets see what happens then if someone slots you with a 160 grain rifle bullet through the chest at 150yds, we'll count how many times you can reload an RPG before your nervous system tells you to die

Oh yeah forgot, your mister 'Dirty Harry' -drop 'em every time eh.  

Been shooting tooooo many rabbits and drinking the falling down water...

You are an idiot! Try and actualy come out your dream world and watch LIVE real TV!!

There is footage of an insurgent (on the net that i aint linking to) that was aiming an RPG at an American unit -kneeling in the street.

The US unit put 1 tracer round right through the centre of his chest (it exited his back struck the road and richocheted off) he dropped the RPG and sat there with his legs outstretched infront of himself leaning back on both  hands (like he was sunbathing) The next round hit him in the head and he winced, then another round went through his chest -again exiting his back- finaly, another round hit and broke his arm and he fell backwards bouncing his head on the ground. Whether he was still alive or not, proves that in your dream world, people don't drop dead like shooting tin cans.

It's called 'delay' mr dreamer, before trauma. WHich is why i said a headshot is the only sure way to drop someone.

Besides the 5.56mm round isn't exactly a stopper compaired to a 7.62mm.

Anyway, now you've mouthed off, you can go back to your dream of dropping people from 3miles away with your 160 grain rifle bullet and then bragging about it at your local watering hole....

Here's a professional quote for your pipe!

Quote[/b] ]Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

Have a read over this over a beer or two. Not so far fetched at all eh?  

i really couldnt agree with you here, just forget about that, a human being, if get shot, wont put down his bions, rises his weapon as if it is business as usual, and die only after all this.

what we are talking about there is that , if you get shot, the anime should be stopped on spot and death anime take its place, shouldnt be a hard fix IMO, but who knows?

back on topic, i dont know if Ragdoll is any good for the game, all i know is that i wouldnt like it if this stuff take away too much CPU power form the more important rest of the game

all i want is that if i want to edit anime the joints wont troll apart like it used to in OFPanim and are all connected no matter how you twist them

[urbanwarrior 0]

What I dearly would like to see is some way to switch from animation x to a death animation instantly, for example it's rather silly to watch AT soldiers finish reloading their weapons and then fall down dead.

Sadly in real life that is sometimes the case.......

The human nervous system can function on for several seconds autonimously, even although the damage is catastrophic!

The fastest nerve speed is around 180mph -compare that to a bullet or a dozen or more traveling at several thousand feet per second!! It appears to you -since you are firing the gun (within the game) at the enemy- you see dozens of tracer rounds go through an enemy, but by the time the nervous system catches up it appears an eternity -headshot exception.

BIS have captured that part very realisticaly.

Read any real-life tale of war or scenario and you will come across many similar stories as above.

Back on subject;

Rag Doll physics are in some of my enjoyable games.

Splinter Cell,Oblivion,Hidden & Dangerous 2 and Raven Shield and even GRAW.

The sheer random element of shooting or blowing up the enemy on stairs,vehicles,bridges,ladders,towers etc (a good programmer doesn't get collision problems) makes for a rewarding experience in a true gamers book.

However it's not just about death..

Example:

Take a simple thing like special ops, how do you hide a body in ArmA or OFP? Well it just 'dissolves' into the ground doesn't it. Not exactly realistic and another minus point to ArmA & OFPs stiff body poses!

However, play H&D2 or Splinter Cell and it becomes a game in itself! Why? because the AI can detect bodies.

Change into uniforms also ads another element.

So HAVOK does add a whole new 'proper' gameplay -not just because of realistic deaths.

get a bloody grip of yourself, i hardly think BI programmed in a delay between being shot or blown up by a grenade and the then falling down dead in order to simulate the speed of our nervous system! thats the dumbest thing i've heard in some time. Lets see what happens then if someone slots you with a 160 grain rifle bullet through the chest at 150yds, we'll count how many times you can reload an RPG before your nervous system tells you to die

Oh yeah forgot, your mister 'Dirty Harry' -drop 'em every time eh.  

Been shooting tooooo many rabbits and drinking the falling down water...

You are an idiot! Try and actualy come out your dream world and watch LIVE real TV!!

There is footage of an insurgent (on the net that i aint linking to) that was aiming an RPG at an American unit -kneeling in the street.

The US unit put 1 tracer round right through the centre of his chest (it exited his back struck the road and richocheted off) he dropped the RPG and sat there with his legs outstretched infront of himself leaning back on both  hands (like he was sunbathing) The next round hit him in the head and he winced, then another round went through his chest -again exiting his back- finaly, another round hit and broke his arm and he fell backwards bouncing his head on the ground. Whether he was still alive or not, proves that in your dream world, people don't drop dead like shooting tin cans.

It's called 'delay' mr dreamer, before trauma. WHich is why i said a headshot is the only sure way to drop someone.

Besides the 5.56mm round isn't exactly a stopper compaired to a 7.62mm.

Anyway, now you've mouthed off, you can go back to your dream of dropping people from 3miles away with your 160 grain rifle bullet and then bragging about it at your local watering hole....

Here's a professional quote for your pipe!

Quote[/b] ]Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

Have a read over this over a beer or two. Not so far fetched at all eh?  

get a life you pr!c, and stop watching youtube and thinking your a bloody expert or some pseudo soldier, you said it yourself, you saw a man shot in the chest whilst firing an rpg and waht did he do? yes thats right, he stopped firing his rpg, funny that isn't it, bloody idiot. and another thing how do you get "drop em everytime at 3miles" from what i actually said which was getting shot a 150yrds in the chest, and are you trying to say that if you got shot in the chest you would get up and keep fighting arnie style? you've just proven your an idiot, and an ignorant un-educated one at that.

[urbanwarrior 0]

Actually the more i read your post the more it makes me laugh, apart from the bad grammar, everything you've quoted is from the net, even the supposed video footage that you sat and watched off some guy being shot (i can see your nights are not wasted) maybe you can search some more when you get out of school. p.s. big boys call them "bars" not watering holes

[baddo 0]

Hi,

one problem in ArmA could be fixed with ragdoll; a dead body is "stiff" in the last animation position, and it doesn't take into account the shape of the terrain in anyway. That being the case, dead bodies have feet or hands in the air in many cases. Just kill a couple of AI's onto top of a hill to see how bad it looks.

I too think that ragdoll is not realistic if the body goes into ragdoll mode right after getting a hit from a bullet and dying; instead there should be some "muscular forces" or "friction" or "damping" or whatever in the skeletal joints, to prevent the unnatural look of freely moving body parts. The ragdoll movements would then be restricted, dampened so that it would look more realistic. I'm sure in the physics engines there are ways to do this, it's just a question of is it wanted and is it feasible in terms of performance.

Regards,

Baddo.

[urbanwarrior 0]

agreed baddo, a sort off half rag doll effect would be good, enough to have the dead body adjust to the surroundings once it had hit the ground maybe, but not anything like raven shield, as funny as watching a guy bend his back parrallel to his legs is, it might not be so realistic!

[-)rStrangelove 0]

The one that always makes me laugh is how an officer will

get shot, carefully put away his binoculars and only then

topple over. Cracks me up every time that one!  

Monty Python comes to mind somehow.

Imo any realistic shooter needs ragdoll - the only thing that makes it feel less annoying in ArmA is the fact that i shoot enemies on higher distances usually - so the lack of ragdoll is not that noticable.

Heavy on CPU resources? Not quite, if it's done properly. In the ArmA options it could be very customizable:

- the nr of ragdoll objects appearing at any time (all other units would use static animations like now)

- the time period how long a body would change its stance (not longer than 3-4 secs would suffice)

- bodies should be very heavy by default so they drop in a fast, realistic way. (would further decrease time period)

So i really hope ragdoll will be added in a later patch. Even if done next year or so, it would be great. ArmA's realism would greatly increase with ragdoll fx.

[4 IN 1 0]

)rStrangelove @ Feb. 27 2007,20:07)]

The one that always makes me laugh is how an officer will

get shot, carefully put away his binoculars and only then

topple over. Cracks me up every time that one!  

Monty Python comes to mind somehow.  

Imo any realistic shooter needs ragdoll - the only thing that makes it feel less annoying in ArmA is the fact that i shoot enemies on higher distances usually - so the lack of ragdoll is not that noticable.

Heavy on CPU resources? Not quite, if it's done properly. In the ArmA options it could be very customizable:

- the nr of ragdoll objects appearing at any time (all other units would use static animations like now)

- the time period how long a body would change its stance (not longer than 3-4 secs would suffice)

- bodies should be very heavy by default so they drop in a fast, realistic way. (would further decrease time period)

So i really hope ragdoll will be added in a later patch. Even if done next year or so, it would be great. ArmA's realism would greatly increase with ragdoll fx.  

well it also should take account into momentum, a single bullet wont blow a crops 1M backward upon impact, and surely wont make that running poor bastard stop from 20 to 0 on spot

[max power 21]

Havok may not be heavy on the CPU cycles because it uses the graphics card for physics calculations

[Luciano 0]

Quote[/b] ]Ragdolls always look weightless, its even worse in MP.

Wrong. I guess you never played red orchestra. They have the most realistic death animations of any game, and thats because they did the ragdols right.

If you watch videos of soldiers getting shot and compare them to red orchestra, you will be shocked how real the animations look.

You guys just find excuses from everything. Just because BIS didn't have havok in for whatever reason doesn't mean the system is totally useless in terms of making things look real.

In, HL2, the ragdols don't look too real, but it was never intended to look perfect. However, when it comes to object physics, HL2 has a great system.

[frederf 0]

1. Implementing Ragdoll animations does not necessarily mean that the game will look like BF2 with bodies flying everywhere from 9mm bullets and bodies thrown 100m from a hand grenade. That's up to the values set in the program. Ultimately it comes down to the game designers not behaving like 12-year old boys with a new toy and make the effect subtle instead of cartoonish. By the way, less than 5% games come anywhere close to a sensible use of rag doll.

2. "BIS didn't give in" is misplaced praise. You use the lack of ragdoll in ArmA as some sort of evidence of the game developers' fine upstanding morals, which is simply not the case. The engine used for ArmA is simply not designed for it and the time constraints on the developers so strict that ragdoll was simply not an option. Don't laud them for their choice because they never had the option.

[deanosbeano 0]

I dont understand how there is adebate , there is nothing to stop anybody once tools are out making ragdoll for arma.

especially with the new skeleton class and lots of new class types and excellent physics that are hard coded into the engine .

the debate should be who is going to dedicate a few months to implement it from the community ?

if you want to do a rudermentary test , unpbo characters , take any unit p3d , write a config and make it a Thing class . there are 3 types now i believe not sure. " you cant mess around with weights ( bit of a prob). you could try and see if it still reactoi to anims .

and for the time being you could write some monitoring scripts.

stop talking about it and do it .

Bis have done there bit now its upto us/ you

DB

[whisper 0]

)rStrangelove @ Feb. 27 2007,20:07)]

The one that always makes me laugh is how an officer will

get shot, carefully put away his binoculars and only then

topple over. Cracks me up every time that one!

Monty Python comes to mind somehow.

Imo any realistic shooter needs ragdoll - the only thing that makes it feel less annoying in ArmA is the fact that i shoot enemies on higher distances usually - so the lack of ragdoll is not that noticable.

Heavy on CPU resources? Not quite, if it's done properly. In the ArmA options it could be very customizable:

- the nr of ragdoll objects appearing at any time (all other units would use static animations like now)

- the time period how long a body would change its stance (not longer than 3-4 secs would suffice)

- bodies should be very heavy by default so they drop in a fast, realistic way. (would further decrease time period)

So i really hope ragdoll will be added in a later patch. Even if done next year or so, it would be great. ArmA's realism would greatly increase with ragdoll fx.

And there the same issues that raised during the dynamic building destruction discussions appear : with different ragdolls and anims effect applied on different entities depending on factors local to player's PC, how do you synchronise everything in MP?

[dmarkwick 261]

I'd be in favour of ragdoll implemented in ArmA, even limited ragdoll (say only 8 joints or something, 2 each for arms & legs) as it gives more realism to bodies scattered around, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread seeing several bodies lying around with the same pose detracts a little from the experience.

Also, sometimes you can see a body from a distance and know that it's dead because you're familiar with the death poses, ragdoll would make it more difficult.

[madrussian 347]

)rStrangelove @ Feb. 27 2007,20:07)]Imo any realistic shooter needs ragdoll - the only thing that makes it feel less annoying in ArmA is the fact that i shoot enemies on higher distances usually - so the lack of ragdoll is not that noticable.

Heavy on CPU resources? Not quite, if it's done properly. In the ArmA options it could be very customizable:

- the nr of ragdoll objects appearing at any time (all other units would use static animations like now)

- the time period how long a body would change its stance (not longer than 3-4 secs would suffice)

- bodies should be very heavy by default so they drop in a fast, realistic way. (would further decrease time period)

So i really hope ragdoll will be added in a later patch. Even if done next year or so, it would be great. ArmA's realism would greatly increase with ragdoll fx.  

Well said...

Having programmed extensively using a physics engine myself, I'll add a couple of points.

-It is possible to limit cpu usage by limiting the amount of time each dead body is tracked (after which time they can lose their physics characteristics)

-There are other clever tricks you can employ to reduce cpu usage, such as using layered collision environments.

Overall, I think the key here is to give us the ability to tweak and adjust all of this.  That way those of us who want optimized highly realistic ragdoll can have it and the rest of you can simply turn it off.  

[Kirby 2]

And there the same issues that raised during the dynamic building destruction discussions appear : with different ragdolls and anims effect applied on different entities depending on factors local to player's PC, <span style='color:red'>how do you synchronise everything in MP?</span>

Every multiplayer game I've played featuring ragdoll physics I've asked my buddy:

"Haha, do you see that guy?! Looks like he's been shot in the nuts...! He's slumped on that wall holding his nuts..."

His reply:

"Uh, he's just lead on his back for me, Look i'll stand over him"

And he stands about 2 meters away....

So I not sure if you can with ragdoll.