China destroys satellite with ballistic missile

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]The United States, Japan and Australia voiced concern Friday after US spy agencies said China had shot down a satellite for the first time, raising the stakes over the military use of space.

Washington said China fired a missile to destroy an orbiting weather satellite last week, making it the third country after the United States and the former Soviet Union to shoot down anything in space.

The successful test means China, which declined to comment, could now theoretically shoot down spy satellites operated by other nations.

The ageing weather satellite was hit on January 11 US time and may have left considerable debris behind. The impact reported occurred more than 500 miles (800 kilometers) above Earth, high enough to hit orbiting satellites.

Japan, which has long been concerned at China's rapidly growing military spending, joined the United States in condemning the test.

"From the view of the peaceful use of space and international security, we naturally have concerns about it," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yasuhisa Shiozaki, the government spokesman, told a news conference.

The test was first reported by US magazine Aviation Week and Space Technology and confirmed by the White House.

"We are not aware of that test. Usually the media writes stories on hearsay evidence, we don't have time to verify such stories," a spokesman with the Chinese defence ministry's foreign affairs department told AFP.

But Japan said China told it through diplomatic channels that its intentions were peaceful.

"China consistently uses space only for peaceful purposes," Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso quoted the Chinese foreign ministry as saying, but he was also critical of the test.

"We did not receive any notification beforehand," Aso told reporters.

The way China handled the test is "questionable from the viewpoint of peaceful use (of space) because there could be concerns of scattered debris," he said.

The test would be the world's first since the 1980s, when the United States and Soviet Union both destroyed satellites in space. The two superpowers ceased the tests largely because of the problem of debris.

But US President George W. Bush's administration has opposed international calls to end such tests, saying in a policy paper last fall that the United States had the right to "freedom of action" in space.

China had been a leading critic of Washington's policy on the military use of space, raising the possibility that the satellite-killer test was a calculated diplomatic strategy.

The White House was quick to condemn the test and said other countries inclduing Britain and South Korea would also voice concern.

"The United States believes China's development and testing of such weapons is inconsistent with the spirit of cooperation that both countries aspire to in the civil space area," said national security spokesman Gordon Johndroe.

Australia's foreign ministry meanwhile summoned China's ambassador.

"Australia sought an explanation from the Chinese government about the nature of the incident and China's assessment of the danger posed by the debris created by that incident," a foreign ministry spokeswoman said in Canberra.

Aviation Week said the missile was fired from the Xichang space center in central Sichuan province and had destroyed a Chinese weather satellite that was launched in 1999.

China, which in 2003 became the third country to carry out a manned space mission, can now theoretically shoot down spy satellites operated by the United States, Japan, Russia, Israel and Europe, the magazine said.

The test "could also have left considerable space debris in an orbit used by many different satellites," it said.

The funny thing is that the White House is complaining but for themselves claim to have the right of "freedom of action" in space

Apart from this test, China is said to have sucessfully lasered and blinded a US recon satellite lately.

It looks like they´re taking their steps to get on the same level as the US and russia who both have anti-satellite measures.

I guess it´s sort of a must-have for all of them.

[raedor 8]

The funny thing is that the White House is complaining but for themselves claim to have the right of "freedom of action" in space

Haha, yep, that was funny to read...

[PainDealer 0]

The funny thing is that the White House is complaining but for themselves claim to have the right of "freedom of action" in space

well that's most unexpected

[Balschoiw 0]

On a more serious note, what do you think, does China have a bigger agenda than just getting up to the western level of military ?

If I remember right they also built a capable fighter-plane lately.

There involvement in Nigeria for getting a solid support of crude oil and their initiatives in other african countries to get raw materials is ok but do we see China getting set for something ?

[celery 8]

On a more serious note, what do you think, does China have a bigger agenda than just getting up to the western level of military ?

If I remember right they also built a capable fighter-plane lately.

There involvement in Nigeria for getting a solid support of crude oil and their initiatives in other african countries to get raw materials is ok but do we see China getting set for something ?

People's General, a strategy game by SSI involved a main campaign where China invades Taiwan, then Russia and the rest of Asia against Allied forces in 2005. Indeed two years ago that situation didn't seem too far fetched with all the fuss about Taiwan (incredible for a game released in 1998). I guess they are building up to match the other powers on the international arena, if I were China I would do the same.

And come on, they blew their own aged satellite in lack of better targets, what is the big deal?

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Well, don't forget that the chinese are a patient people, and they've always opposed "western" support of Taiwan, so who knows, maybe they're really going to do something about it? Taking into account that U.S. military forces are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, with a possible situation coming up with Iran, if China ever wanted to strike at Taiwan and get away with it, there could soon not be a better timing...

[Messiah 2]

BUZZARD @ Jan. 19 2007,18:45)]if China ever wanted to strike at Taiwan and get away with it, there could soon not be a better timing...

not really, as there is a pernament US naval force stationed in the area to prevent such a thing (or at least i recall there was)

[EiZei 0]

BUZZARD @ Jan. 19 2007,18:45)]if China ever wanted to strike at Taiwan and get away with it, there could soon not be a better timing...  

not really, as there is a pernament US naval force stationed in the area to prevent such a thing (or at least i recall there was)

And that little detail known as the Republic of China and it's fairly capable military.

[Messiah 2]

well of course, but the reprocussions of such a move is more than likely enough to keep them from doing it... then again it does appear that the US government in its interest to secure better relations with China, would possibly 'forget' the obligations and promises that Clinton made to Taiwan.

by having a US fleet stationed there, the US cant help but get involved, which I guess is the point.

[MidShip 0]

Chinese strategic leaders seem to have a special sort of wisdom. If they decide to do so, they are sure about that it will work.

[Lateflip 0]

"Freedom of action in space"

And at the same the US aren't saying that they're mad because it was China that did the dust but that they're mad because it's theoretically a wrong thing to do and bad for the enviroment.

Well they didn't say that but it's what it sounds like.

Why not just say "We're worried that China with this technology will shoot down our spy satellites, which hmm... aren't actually there because we have no spies, nor spy satellites..."

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

good. anything that annoys the US government pleases me. Who gave them the role as guardian of space. there just jealous becuase there empire is begining to show signs of cracks. yes, all empires fall, and the US empire is no different.

[Necromancer- 0]

Oh great..

This means indirectly.. more oil for China.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]not really, as there is a pernament US naval force stationed in the area to prevent such a thing (or at least i recall there was)

There had been rumours a while ago that China had developed some kind of "parasite" modules that attach to recon and spy satellites to destroy them the moment they feel to. They have already temporarely blinded a US recon satellite over their territory with ground laser and now are able to take out satellites with a ballistic missile. I am not saying that they are after something but it looks like they are really after getting things sorted military-wise.

[Lateflip 0]

good. anything that annoys the US government pleases me.  Who gave them the role as guardian of space.  there just jealous becuase there empire is begining to show signs of cracks.  yes, all empires fall, and the US empire is no different.

They kind of gave themselves that role somewhere after or before they were fighting the nazis, breaking down communism, stopping mass murder, liberating kuwait and aiding south korea.

We have America to thank for living in a free world.

[Maddmatt 1]

They kind of gave themselves that role somewhere after or before they were fighting the nazis, breaking down communism, stopping mass murder, liberating kuwait and aiding south korea.

We have America to thank for living in a free world.

Russia invaded Berlin, them and the British did more to stop the Nazis. Not saying the US was useless, but they are far from the only ones to thank.

And I bet you're American .

And as for stopping mass murder? Yea right. Heard of Hiroshima? That is mass murder. The US still kills innocent civilians in wars.

Don't call me anti-American, I'm not.

[Balschoiw 0]

Please keep it on the topic of China´s latest fashion of space-war.

The mods are pulling their guns pretty fast right now, so lets keep the thread in the right direction.

For the Jian-10, the F16 rival made in China, here are some pics. The specifications of the plane are still not known, China is very silent about the plane, but it looks like it´s meant to be a cheap alternative to F16 based planes or the soviet MIG - line.

I can also se some similarities to the Eurofighter while I doubt that it has the technical capabilities of the european fighterplane.

Here are some pics:

This "budget" fighter could be interesting for trading and will give countries with a minor military budget the chance to have some kind of modern fighter in exchange for raw-material or oil.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Quote[/b] ]We have America to thank for living in a free world.

Bullshit.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

Quote[/b] ]We have America to thank for living in a free world.

Bullshit.

Correct, i'm hungarian and in '56 the americans dropped leaflets above Budapest telling us that they'll support our little uprising and we should go through with it... Needless to say we got the same treatment that the Iraqi shiites got in the first gulf war.

So america not only didn't help us, they screwed us over...

Back on topic... China wouldn't start a real war anyway, it's possible to deliver nukes without satellites guiding them and not even china with it's huge population can suvive a nuclear war. The US could blow this planet up 10 times over.

If i were China i'd go the economic road, sanction the crap out of the US once they're dependant enough on chinese goods. They could already throw the economic world into chaos.

Their military is probably just a deterrent measure, to make sure that when they use their economic power the rest of the world doesn't just up and invade them and force them to keep making cheap TVs.

[TrevorOfCrete 0]

whats so wrong about china making its own military?  its somthing all rising powers have done.  i dont think China want war with the USA or anyone in the west, there too dependant on our economies.  If theres war, prety much all that western enterprise out there will stop dealing, and chinas economy will be heavily hit.  we are the main consumers of the products made there.

@ USA and ww2.  the war was pretty well won before D-Day by the Russians.  We have them to thank for defeat of German Facism.  They would also argue they were owed Berlin.  Thats somthing the USA wouldnt understand, never had being invaded.

[EiZei 0]

Jesus H. Christ, do we really have to drag USA and something that happened >60 years ago to every thread?

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Balschoiw, taking into account the planes the Chinese got their ideas from to make THAT plane, I must say they got to an UGLY mish-mash result...

[XeLSiS 0]

Me being somewhat of a WW2 Historian and Theory vs Fact type can explain alot of things here without causing more arguing.

USA & WW2: The russians were allowed by the US to take berlin, because the US Government didnt want the casulties. The Russians lost HUGE numbers taking berlin. But that was the "great" russian strategy in WW2, throw vast numbers at the enemy and hope they retreat. Russian lost 10,700,000+ Militiary Personnal during WW2. Compared with a 407,300 by the US. The US Launched a Western Front on Germany, it was somewhat unexpected, this gave Hitler a 2 front war which he didnt want, he had to divert supplies heading to the Eastern Front which was in desperate need of them. The US also heavily supplied Great Britian, Russia, France, and China from 1939-1945. In fact, britian just finished its WW2 repayment of the 10 billion or so owed to the US from WW2. Without the US, Hitler would have won WW2, or atleast all of europe. Britian was bankrupt and cutoff of everything. P-40's and Navy were supplied, food, ammo, clothing, everything. We supplied China and Russia with the materials and weapons for War, and france well... we mainly sponsored the undergroud.

Economy: The US, China, and EU are the 3 largest economies in the world, failure of anyone of them would result in immediate inflation, stock market crashes or heavy withdrawls, and throw the world into chaos. The US is the #1 consumer in the world, China's economy is good, but its slowed down alot. Recent events for example: Dell and some printer company decided not to build a new warehouse and manufactoring buildings in china and instead chose Malaysia (or something) and Vietnam for the fact that it was wayyyy cheaper.

China: China is spending alot of money, underinflating its currency, and pirating almost 80% of the software in the country itself. I read an article about "A day in china" and the funny thing there was that on a good day you could see 1/3 of a mile away and on a bad day you could barely see across the street. Living in China is unhealthy. They're GDP is great but its only great as long as other countries invest in it, which is slowing down, companies like Dell, IBM, and what not are looking into the Phillipeans, India, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc for cheaper labor. Chinas population is growing fast and soon they wont be able to support their own agriculture. Where as the US can feed itself still... on condition it may be slimmer then what a fair ammount of US People are use to, but the US can feed itself still... China soon wont. US has many export and import where as china is hugely dependant on the US for over 20% of its profit. America and the EU enjoy cheap goods from China, but we can as easily move where we want to buy them from to Mexico if we really wanted to. China has open market with anyone, the US is still opening with some countries giving us the wonderful capacity of constant growth.

China's Militiary: That Ji-10 or whatever looks like a more heavily armored version of a Lockheed F-104 Starfighter from the 60's lol... Probably is based upon it. China has very little succesful or inovative R&D. Alot of things they copy for example Software Piracy... its like breathing to them over there.

EDIT:

US Militiary Presence in the Asian Market:

We have naval bases in Japan, Taiwan, Australia for sure. We have Infantry in all those and Okinawa, South Korea, Alaska, and not to mention 100,000 troops and navy forces and what not alone in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US has a Militiary Shield around China, and frankly if the US and China ever got in a war, the US would win with airpower. our F-14's are being replaced by F-22's and we still have the F-17, B-2's, F-117's and we also have Drone capacity, somthing china dosnt have.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

For the Jian-10, the F16 rival made in China, here are some pics. The specifications of the plane are still not known, China is very silent about the plane, but it looks like it´s meant to be a cheap alternative to F16 based planes or the soviet MIG - line.

I can also se some similarities to the Eurofighter while I doubt that it has the technical capabilities of the european fighterplane.

Here are some pics:

....

This "budget" fighter could be interesting for trading and will give countries with a minor military budget the chance to have some kind of modern fighter in exchange for raw-material or oil.

A slightly more up to date pic...

The J-10 is far from "Budget" anything.  Part of the delays have apparently/allegedly been caused by flight control issues, with the loss of several prototype and pre production aircraft.

The J-10 is reported as having avionics on par with the latest western fighters in its class:  Mig-29SMT, F-18E/F, JAS-39 Gripen and F-16D and carrying the latest versions of classic soviet era AAMs and a limited arsenal of ASM weapons.  Equipped with Low Probability Intercept Radar and  modern high speed datalinks (see Shenyang Y-8 AEW   Derivatives)

Part of this advanced technology (multi-channel FBW, RWR and LPI radar) is, at least, in part credited to Russian, French and Israeli technology exports and work share packages.  While Israeli involvement remains unconfirmed the main cause of this 'rumour' is the J-10's striking similarity the failed IAI Lavi aircraft and various other arms deals in the past...

Since its taken them nearly 10 years to get this little bird flying and they are taking great pains to keep the exact details of its performance and capability secret I doubt China will be making the J-10 available for export any time soon.  But having said that it’s been reported that Pakistan is interested in buying the J10 to replace its F-16 fleet.  But since China and Pakistan are already collaborating on several High Tech projects, I think that a limited export to favoured allies is more likely than a mass market model but who knows.

On the technology front: China, specifically Chendu are fast becoming a “centre of excellence†for high precision engineering and composite material manufacture.  The indigenous aero engines manufacturing has come a long way in the last 10 years too, with a lot of western manufacturers 'offsetting' work packages to Chinese businesses. I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest to find load bearing skins and chemically bonded surfaces in use, something that so far is only seen on the EuroFighter and F-35.  Either way I’m sure that the Japan and Taiwan together with the US are now paying far more attention to China’s airpower.  The J-10 seems far more of a threat than 35 year old the Shenyang F-7A (Mig 21F-13)

[Espectro (DayZ) 0]

Me being somewhat of a WW2 Historian and Theory vs Fact type can explain alot of things here without causing more arguing.

USA & WW2: The russians were allowed by the US to take berlin, because the US Government didnt want the casulties. The Russians lost HUGE numbers taking berlin. But that was the "great" russian strategy in WW2, throw vast numbers at the enemy and hope they retreat. Russian lost 10,700,000+ Militiary Personnal during WW2. Compared with a 407,300 by the US. The US Launched a Western Front on Germany, it was somewhat unexpected, this gave Hitler a 2 front war which he didnt want, he had to divert supplies heading to the Eastern Front which was in desperate need of them. The US also heavily supplied Great Britian, Russia, France, and China from 1939-1945. In fact, britian just finished its WW2 repayment of the 10 billion or so owed to the US from WW2. Without the US, Hitler would have won WW2, or atleast all of europe. Britian was bankrupt and cutoff of everything. P-40's and Navy were supplied, food, ammo, clothing, everything. We supplied China and Russia with the materials and weapons for War, and france well... we mainly sponsored the undergroud.

Economy: The US, China, and EU are the 3 largest economies in the world, failure of anyone of them would result in immediate inflation, stock market crashes or heavy withdrawls, and throw the world into chaos. The US is the #1 consumer in the world, China's economy is good, but its slowed down alot. Recent events for example: Dell and some printer company decided not to build a new warehouse and manufactoring buildings in china and instead chose Malaysia (or something) and Vietnam for the fact that it was wayyyy cheaper.

China: China is spending alot of money, underinflating its currency, and pirating almost 80% of the software in the country itself. I read an article about "A day in china" and the funny thing there was that on a good day you could see 1/3 of a mile away and on a bad day you could barely see across the street. Living in China is unhealthy. They're GDP is great but its only great as long as other countries invest in it, which is slowing down, companies like Dell, IBM, and what not are looking into the Phillipeans, India, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, etc for cheaper labor. Chinas population is growing fast and soon they wont be able to support their own agriculture. Where as the US can feed itself still... on condition it may be slimmer then what a fair ammount of US People are use to, but the US can feed itself still... China soon wont. US has many export and import where as china is hugely dependant on the US for over 20% of its profit. America and the EU enjoy cheap goods from China, but we can as easily move where we want to buy them from to Mexico if we really wanted to. China has open market with anyone, the US is still opening with some countries giving us the wonderful capacity of constant growth.

China's Militiary: That Ji-10 or whatever looks like a more heavily armored version of a Lockheed F-104 Starfighter from the 60's lol... Probably is based upon it. China has very little succesful or inovative R&D. Alot of things they copy for example Software Piracy... its like breathing to them over there.

EDIT:

US Militiary Presence in the Asian Market:

We have naval bases in Japan, Taiwan, Australia for sure. We have Infantry in all those and Okinawa, South Korea, Alaska, and not to mention 100,000 troops and navy forces and what not alone in Afghanistan and Iraq. The US has a Militiary Shield around China, and frankly if the US and China ever got in a war, the US would win with airpower. our F-14's are being replaced by F-22's and we still have the F-17, B-2's, F-117's and we also have Drone capacity, somthing china dosnt have.

Dream on, mate.

The US army have showed it's weakness fighting militia forces. I fear that it is useless against a 'real enemy'. Especially your 'air superiocity' as China is capable of destroying or deactivate any satelites it wishes, and their Anti-Air capability is alot stronger than what the US have encountered so far.

As for your 'theory' of state-piracy of software. You are wrong - China doesn't support piracy neither officialy or unofficialy - infact, China have executed numerious people for selling pirate software, media etc.

The piracy comes primarily from other Asian countries, but not from China. Also, if China felt like it, it could destroy the world economy and paralyse the US industry by making a boycut.