official complaint to BIS

[Shadow NX 1]

Got to agree, ArmA is lot better already and even well playable... for me atleast but maybe that cause i set my gfx to a realistic level ( realistic concerning ArmA hardware hunger ).

Missions end, Ai does its job etc etc... so far this is a good base for any further development.

Now they gotta fix up the issues with the 8800 owners and we all can be a little more happy.

Oh and if i hear the i paid for it much more then i implode... at 1.05 ArmA is at a level where its absolutely playable ( ok exept for the people with the performance probs but like i said i think they see Oblivion run well and assume they sa waste ( wichould switch everythign to high in ArmA aswell... ).

At times where you pay like 7Eur or more for a crappy movie and surely get no refund if you dont like it people shouldnt moan about something like 39Eur for a product that maybe has its flaws but can ( for some maybe after some more patching ) entertain them for hours and hours.

And now i better wear a flak jacket and pull the head in

[dm 9]

Quote[/b] ]Since I learned from BI that realistically I will never get a decent documentation for ArmA assembled and maintained by BI.

Ever had a look at the wiki ? If you want to have a 300 pages compendium coming with your boxed version that goes partially obsolete with every patch released you do not understand the fundamentals of releasing a mainstream computergame.

If the price for Arma was around 200 or 300 Euros you could ask for that, but not for a product sold for 39 Euros.

Bloody hell.. are you STILL going on about that?!?!

We've already duked it out that games come with basic documentation (a user manual which tells you how to play) and NOT with bible-sized comprehensive documentation. And as I've said 2 or 3 times before, not even the modders "holy grail" (the source SDK) comes with documentation - its just dodgy comments in the source code.

Get over yourself and get a life, seriously...

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote

You cannot tell me that the testers for Armed Assault went through the campaign and were happy with the scripted events and AI. And I’m talking about v1.04, god knows how people coped with 1.02 released in other countries.

That`s somehow not mine, I never had 1.04.

Quote[/b] ]You don´t achieve a reputation by discrediting people like Placebo, which is btw a thing that only shows how little you know about the job he did. If you had come here and posted the stuff about Placebo like you did elsewhere I can assure you that there would be not many left who would even read your posts anymore.

Didn`t I mention also somewhere here that I think he was/ is an PR-GAU? I remember that I translated GAU into english. Enough balls? Sorry that I have problems to keep my statements synchronized in all forums, I will from now on work on that harder :-) And btw, be fair, I wrote that he might be a good guy, but I can only judge the outcome, and that was poor from my point of view. And more strange I found and find the fact that NOW, when BI needs more then ever before a full time PR guy he is leaving and is not replaced.

Quote[/b] ]Ever had a look at the wiki ? If you want to have a 300 pages compendium coming with your boxed version that goes partially obsolete with every patch released you do not understand the fundamentals of releasing a mainstream computergame.

Yea, old arguments, we went through that already. I would pay even 500€ because it would pay pack within a short time by avoiding time consuming searching in the Wiki where you very often find no or poor information. And do NOT try to tell me now the Wiki is complete or correct. You are one of the old fashioned majority suggesting that a product without description how to use it is still a product.LOL

The only very formal argument I somehow considered was from Suma, he told me it is sold as "entertainment SW". Well, at the moment entertainment by ArmA is very poor, but I enjoy to talk to you :-). And to your "mainstream computer game", BI always stresses OFP and ArmA are very exceptional "almost" simulations, the reason why we all buy it I guess. To move back now to "mainstream computer game" and "entertainment SW" is formal totally correct, but it has a very odd smell.

Why you try to leave the impression that I deny the fact that ArmA improved a lot? I confirmed that, I just say it is still not ready for a commercial release with that many serious bugs. In my not-counting opinion. But I am willing to do my share to change that and I did that.

I am so far clean with BI, they have a hopefully better communication pipe for TTs.

To the nuts things about me, testing, demanding.....

I understood that BI can not bring ArmA up to 1.96- like stability within a short time frame. I expressed that I have doubts that the major part of the community will be with us until summer. That would mean less customers - less revenue for BI - less money to pay the guys to fix the bugs / develop next game.

How do you come to the point nothing could make me happy? Just because you are happy with an empty paper box and I am not? I am happy man, happy with OFP 1.96 I play with several addon packs.

I expressed several times I would be happy if they would strip down ArmA to the features which are working, tweak JIP so that it works reliable. Then we could start playing instead of testing.

So I have more problems with guys like you then with BI.

But we should stop this here and use PM, I am not sure if everyone is interested in our personal discrepancies.

[walker 0]

Hi All

I think this thread if it had any point has lost it and degenerated into another official complaints thread. I suggest as such that it is merged with that thread.

It would seem to me any such future thread should also be merged as they just clutter up the forum with the same complaints, often as has been noted by the same people.

If a person has a real bug they need to use the bug tracker that way it gets fixed.

If they are wanting to complain the official complaints thread is there started by the community for that purpose.

Kind Regards walker

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@ DeatMeat: No need to ride that horse. Even if I still need it and many community devs too, I GAVE IT UP! You hear? I understood that BI is busy until summer to get ArmA itself under control - no time to do the paper. That`s it. I am not happy but since I am not a developer, only a random mission editor, it is not my time wasted in endless trial-and-error sessions.

OK?

[raedor 8]

Merged "Broken Game" thread in here.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Correct to move it here, but we should rename the thread to "Fanboys vs. nuts quality fundamentalists".

Sorry for fu...g up the other thread, I`ll try to move that to PM earlier.

[MrWho 0]

I would like to file an official complaint about Metaboli, a distributor of your product. I'm sure you have seen several complaints throughout these boards about their customer service

I have send in several request for reactivation of the game. When you update you have to reactivate each time. If there is a problem with the install, it eats up on of your three installs.

I posted an email containing the original email from them with every piece of information they needed. Instead of emailing me the activation information they blow me off by asking what email address I used to purchase the software. It was in the original email! Now one week later and one week after the release of 1.05, I have still yet to play!

This company with limited access to customer service, and disappointing customer service with what they have, should not be allowed to distribute this outstanding game!

[funkymojo44 0]

Quote[/b] ]

You cannot tell me that the testers for Armed Assault went through the campaign and were happy with the scripted events and AI. And I’m talking about v1.04, god knows how people coped with 1.02 released in other countries.

How do you know there was even a large test of the 1.04 version ? From my understanding the production of the product went on since the initial release and there was no indepth test-phase as time simply wouldn´t have allowed it. Then after a few weeks we get 1.05 patch, a major one with a lot of changes, additiones and bugs aswell.

Has this to be expected ? I´d say yes. As I already posted a proper patch with testing on a large scale would have meant that it would have been released in June maybe. What do you think ? Are the people more happy to have version upgrades from 1.02 to 1.05 with a lot of gameplay fixes and changes now, or do you think they would have been willing to wait for June ?

Your attitude really baffles me. I guess you would have been the first to scream "I want the patch now ! I have paid for it ! I will sue the whole planet if I don´t get the patch !"

But now, as there is a major patch, you keep moaning about the things that came with the patch. Do you actually have an idea how big Arma is, how complex it is, how much sources for errors there are ?

But still, understanding is not on your list, as you simply EXPECT it to be the way you want it. Period.

No matter how much reviews there were telling you that there are a load of bugs, no matter that you had to be blind to NOT read any reviews pointing out the flaws of Arma, you have your expectations and you want them fulfilled. Not tomorrow, but today, No matter what. This is why you´ll be never happy with Arma as it will never be like you want it to be.

Even in 2 years from now on you will still demand excuses.

If that suits you, ok.

I´m more looking forward, not backward. There was a time to be upset or whatever, but as BIS is already pushing hard to satisfy their customers I see no point, apart from moaning, to constantly bring back the same issues over and over again.

Arma has changed, it´s not Arma 1.01 anymore. It´s Arma 1.05.

Of course there is a need for fixes, of course there are wishes, but BIS has already shown us that they listen alot to their com and do implement things we want and even more.

Anyway, enough of that. I´m fed of it.

I'm afraid its your attitude i can;t understand. Of course it is incorrect to start mass moaning and attacking members of BIS, however the main point which many have noted continues to be sidetracked by comments such as;

"go and play BF2"

FACT - ArmA is the most heavily bugged release of a game i have ever played, and its all very well saying there has been patches released since - these patches have only cured certain aspects - there is alot to do. My arguement is that the game should not have been released in this state.

I would have been willing to wait to June if it meant getting it right. What we have here is a massive BETA test involving the general public without them knowing it! Of course most games have patches after release, but not on the scale of ArmA.

Your point that people will continue complaining about the game 2 years from now is just stupid.

Look - the fact is the game should not have been released in this condition and it says alot that my out of box copy (v1.04) is almost unplayable.

ArmA may be complex - OFP was as well but i don;t remember it having this many bugs. It really sounds as though you are desperatly trying to defend the indefensable, which bemuses me.

Are you happy with the copy of the game you bought? Have you not experianced the awful scripting and AI? Or maybe the GFX flaws mentioned?

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

Hehe, BI has (I dunno for sure) less then 20 fixed employees.

Morphicon has less then 6. For several games. So basically you just talk to Alex, he is the complete Morphicon company for you, CTO, rubbermade, technical adviser, PR manager, tester, many other functions in one person. I guess it would be hard to get any support in time. I do not excuse morphicon, I just want to explain why you might get no / late answers.

[Chris Death 0]

Innocent&Clueless what i don't get (and this counts

for all complaining about missing documentation) is:

Why didn't you bother to get the ArmA special edition, where

everybody knew that there's a big documentation included?

You say you would even pay 500€ for such a manual - why

you would want to waste so much money for a documentation

which you could get way cheaper but 40€'s for a bugged

game is too much - i can't understand.

I'm pretty sure if BIS recognized the feel of the need for an

editing guide through the comunity, they would have worked

on it but in all those years of OFP there were not so many

complaints about the missing link as of now in 4/5 months

ArmA.

~S~ CD

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

@Chris Death:

To support BI I bought meanwhile 3 licenses, 2 initially to have both Securom and Starforce available for testing, one I gave to a friend (and he is still a friend after he used my gift lol ). The first one was the special edition with the mission scripting guide by Murray, arranged by Morphicon, NOT by BI so do not mix this up here (65€ btw). And what I need is missing even in Murray`s Guide, he confirmed that and he might expand his guide one day.

If you do not need one - fine. But do not tell me what I need.

And as I said, this horse is dead - at least until fall this year.

[zedderzulu 7]

I'm afraid its your attitude i can;t understand. Of course it is incorrect to start mass moaning and attacking members of BIS, however the main point which many have noted continues to be sidetracked by comments such as;

"go and play BF2"

FACT - ArmA is the most heavily bugged release of a game i have ever played, and its all very well saying there has been patches released since - these patches have only cured certain aspects - there is alot to do. My arguement is that the game should not have been released in this state.

I would have been willing to wait to June if it meant getting it right. What we have here is a massive BETA test involving the general public without them knowing it! Of course most games have patches after release, but not on the scale of ArmA.

Your point that people will continue complaining about the game 2 years from now is just stupid.

Look - the fact is the game should not have been released in this condition and it says alot that my out of box copy (v1.04) is almost unplayable.

ArmA may be complex - OFP was as well but i don;t remember it having this many bugs. It really sounds as though you are desperatly trying to defend the indefensable, which bemuses me.

Are you happy with the copy of the game you bought? Have you not experianced the awful scripting and AI? Or maybe the  GFX flaws mentioned?

FACT - that arguement was based entirely on your own opinion.

This thread seems to be full of either "How dare you criticise ArmA" or even "How dare you defend it" - this post may well be one of them too. But in the overall scheme of things, what do these posts actually achieve?

I mean, I could go further and address your post and say things like;

I've played lots of bug-ridden games: Grand Prix 4, Hidden & Dangerous 1&2, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II. All pretty successful and respected games in general. I could say you should look at Knights of the Old Republic II in particular - you should consider the size and resources of Obsidian and LucasArts and the fact that they have, nearly two years after its release, made no attempt to fix any of the issues with the game.

I could add that my version, also v1.04 played really quite well even before v1.05. I only had one crashing issue which I resolved myself - something to do with my computer rather than the game. All in all I'm more than happy with the copy of the game I bought. Sure I have certain frustrations, but I am content.

Thing is though, that's entirely my own opinion and experiences. All of our opinions and experiences seem to be different - I don't really see why we should inflame so many pages of thread to try and prove that ours is the right one.

I imagine the devs would have fun finding a issues thread then having to read through streams of stuff where the issue with the game is not discussed, or debated, just argued about.

*Long period of silence*

I'll be going now

[Clavicula_nox4817 0]

Quote[/b] ]

Quote[/b] ]You cannot tell me that the testers for Armed Assault went through the campaign and were happy with the scripted events and AI. And I’m talking about v1.04, god knows how people coped with 1.02 released in other countries.

How do you know there was even a large test of the 1.04 version ? From my understanding the production of the product went on since the initial release and there was no indepth test-phase as time simply wouldn´t have allowed it. Then after a few weeks we get 1.05 patch, a major one with a lot of changes, additiones and bugs aswell.

Has this to be expected ? I´d say yes. As I already posted a proper patch with testing on a large scale would have meant that it would have been released in June maybe. What do you think ? Are the people more happy to have version upgrades from 1.02 to 1.05 with a lot of gameplay fixes and changes now, or do you think they would have been willing to wait for June ?

Your attitude really baffles me. I guess you would have been the first to scream "I want the patch now ! I have paid for it ! I will sue the whole planet if I don´t get the patch !"

But now, as there is a major patch, you keep moaning about the things that came with the patch. Do you actually have an idea how big Arma is, how complex it is, how much sources for errors there are ?

But still, understanding is not on your list, as you simply EXPECT it to be the way you want it. Period.

No matter how much reviews there were telling you that there are a load of bugs, no matter that you had to be blind to NOT read any reviews pointing out the flaws of Arma, you have your expectations and you want them fulfilled. Not tomorrow, but today, No matter what. This is why you´ll be never happy with Arma as it will never be like you want it to be.

Even in 2 years from now on you will still demand excuses.

If that suits you, ok.

I´m more looking forward, not backward. There was a time to be upset or whatever, but as BIS is already pushing hard to satisfy their customers I see no point, apart from moaning, to constantly bring back the same issues over and over again.

Arma has changed, it´s not Arma 1.01 anymore. It´s Arma 1.05.

Of course there is a need for fixes, of course there are wishes, but BIS has already shown us that they listen alot to their com and do implement things we want and even more.

Anyway, enough of that. I´m fed of it.

I'm afraid its your attitude i can;t understand. Of course it is incorrect to start mass moaning and attacking members of BIS, however the main point which many have noted continues to be sidetracked by comments such as;

"go and play BF2"

FACT - ArmA is the most heavily bugged release of a game i have ever played, and its all very well saying there has been patches released since - these patches have only cured certain aspects - there is alot to do. My arguement is that the game should not have been released in this state.

I would have been willing to wait to June if it meant getting it right. What we have here is a massive BETA test involving the general public without them knowing it! Of course most games have patches after release, but not on the scale of ArmA.

Your point that people will continue complaining about the game 2 years from now is just stupid.

Look - the fact is the game should not have been released in this condition and it says alot that my out of box copy (v1.04) is almost unplayable.

ArmA may be complex - OFP was as well but i don;t remember it having this many bugs. It really sounds as though you are desperatly trying to defend the indefensable, which bemuses me.

Are you happy with the copy of the game you bought? Have you not experianced the awful scripting and AI? Or maybe the  GFX flaws mentioned?

Nobody is saying there isn't alot to do, we're saying that alot has been done and will continue to be done. Instead of coming here, why don't you complain to the different publishers that wanted the game out in November, forcing the developers to make several self-contained builds of the same game to fulfill different release schedules?

I don't see how you say the game is "almost unplayable," Since 1.01 I've had no problems actually playing it. There are graphical errors, the campaign is quite atrocious, and there are others things that made me pound my head into the desk. But now in 1.05? No way. Every-time I fire up the game I have a great time. I used to be forced to play on the islands that had the grass edited out, now I can play with almost everything set to high or very high.

Maybe you won't be playing this game in 2 years, but I and many others will be, and I'm quite sure that the game will be just as, if not more, fun then as it is now.

I've experienced almost every graphical error, memory leak, mission that won't end, scripting that just refuses to work, and other frustrations that everyone else has. I just refuse to be a whiney bitch about it and work to make it better.

Quote[/b] ]Look - the fact is the game should not have been released in this condition

Go cry to a publisher.

[Chris Death 0]

@Chris Death:

To support BI I bought meanwhile 3 licenses, 2 initially to have both Securom and Starforce available for testing, one I gave to a friend (and he is still a friend after he used my gift lol ). The first one was the special edition with the mission scripting guide by Murray, arranged by Morphicon, NOT by BI so do not mix this up here (65€ btw). And what I need is missing even in Murray`s Guide, he confirmed that and he might expand his guide one day.

If you do not need one - fine. But do not tell me what I need.

And as I said, this horse is dead - at least until fall this year.

If you don't want me to tell you what you need then don't

bother my time with reading what you need.

BIS experience through OFP days was that the comunity

will be able to make great steps even further than they

ever expected, without an official editing guide.

You don't want hear this, so don't start a public conversation

about it.

~S~ CD

[Tracer 0]

I wonder how we used to complain without the internet?

Some of us used to just keep our wallets closed in future if a particular company didn't offer support by way of patches etc.

Simple easy answer.

Instead we have 55 (and growing) pages of 'housewives' bickering over who's grievance is bigger than the poster below them...

Do you honestly think BIS is going to trawl through this to find genuine input??

No wonder BIS hardly post anymore -unlike the old forum.

[memnoch 0]

2. The fact that you can easily aim with the saw-249 using the quake crosshair while standing and easily hit targets is lame. It's completely arcade. There should be no such reliable shooting from the hip.

Considering what I saw on a video on YouTube that someone here posted not so long ago it didn't look unreasonable. The guy was standing and firing on full auto into a body of water and he seemed totally in control and their appeared to be no barrel lift, at least not from the cameras point of view. He squeezed and swept the water to and fro and lefta nice even trail of water spouts. Looked cool!

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

DOH?

Quote[/b] ]BIS experience through OFP days was that the comunity

will be able to make great steps even further than they

ever expected, without an official editing guide.

Sure, now you tell me that BI was releasing the game in this condition on purpose just to see how far we go with this.

It is a kind of test? Like ripping out all legs to see how far we can walk?

If you do not like any development in development (sounds somehow weird), I do.

[dm 9]

If you do not like any development in development (sounds somehow weird), I do.

Heh, how about this then:

"You do not learn anything new by being spoon-fed something old"

[NeMeSiS 11]

DOH?

Quote[/b] ]BIS experience through OFP days was that the comunity

will be able to make great steps even further than they

ever expected, without an official editing guide.

Sure, now you tell me that BI was releasing the game in this condition on purpose just to see how far we go with this.

It is a kind of test? Like ripping out all legs to see how far we can walk?

If you do not like any development in development (sounds somehow weird), I do.

You got the pieces of the puzzle, do something useful with them.

[INNOCENT&CLUELESS 0]

This is one reason why I insist on a documentation by the supplier if he suggesting he sold me also a scripting interface:

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....turret%

Half answered and left alone with something that I usually expect to find after reading 10 minutes documentation.

STOOOOOOOOP! I do not ask now and here BI for this, I just want to illustrate how unnecessary painful and time consuming this is.

[Luciano 0]

How can you even expect documentations? That is usually done with the game is FINISHED, and there are few bugs to fix or only minor bugs.

It would be a shame for BIS to work on documentations while the game is still broke. Second to abandoning it alltogether.

What your asking for should have been done (or not, depending on your views) before shipping the game, but now forget that, there are bigger problems.

[lwlooz 0]

If this is about getting like a printed BI-editing guide,that would completely baffle me.

If this about requesting that BI one day spends some time going through the BIKI and adding up things that are poorly or wrongly explained or missing , I would like to see this as well.

All the other discussion about "fanboy" or "whiner" or whatever is just bloated BS of which there is way too much on this forums.

Might be an idea to stick a sub-forum into the Editing part this board which deals with Documentation,Tutorials and Findings.

The disappointing thing for you I&C might be that BIS still has to deal with 1) People whose games don't run at all and

2) CTF players who can't p3wn some guys with headshot pkm-method as they used to in OFP!! .

3) Editing Support unfortunately doesn't achieve as much popular support and happy customers as the first 2 since you can play 4 years of Hexenkessel without knowing what "cost = 10000;" does in your l33t m4 bullet ammo.

[klavan 0]

One of the funniest post I had ever read about in this already (pathetically) funny thread. Sometimes I think that making internet pubblic was a very bad idea.

Klavan

[badlymad 0]

Frankly, your overexaggeration of this game's faults isn't going to solve anything, nor is your attempt to somehow place yourself as a victim of persecution.