Helicopters in AA

[Average Joe 0]

Deano your videos just astound me!

P.s, Merry Xmas!

[Journeyman 0]

Collision response seems to be the main problem with choppers ATM. The flight model might not be perfect but I have been flying the Blackhawk and MI-17 in the demo with my Saitek joystick and found the model to be pretty OK if you use it as you would expect to. If you go making deliberate crashes into trees etc. then things start going bad! I had the Blackhawk nose on the ground going round a tree like a hedge cutter and then I managed to get it up again with no damage!

Whether BIS improve the crash/collision effects and damage models is something we can only hope for!  

They are also able to fly too fast IMO which is probably why tail rotor effect is lost so quickly! What is the speed measured in.. MPH, KPH or KIAS (Knots in air speed)? Anyone know?

[BlackScorpion 0]

In OFP it was kph I think, doubt they'd have it changed for ArmA?

As for converting...

1 mile = 1.609 km

1 knot = 1.853 km (1.8-1.9 anyways)

[Heatseeker 0]

Has anyone tried to fly'em with a xbox style controler? It might work better, just a guess...

[Monkey Lib Front 10]

Music was worth the download but yep totally agree with you Blackdog~

[Freshman 0]

Have a Look at this

. There you can see what you can do with the Helocontrols. I used a joystick and its just f***ing great!

Thank you BIS

[J45 0]

Have a Look at this

. There you can see what you can do with the Helocontrols. I used a joystick and its just f***ing great!

Thank you BIS

wow liked the bridge part of the vid, what joystick u using? looks like im gonna need one

[trisspal 0]

Have a Look at this

. There you can see what you can do with the Helocontrols. I used a joystick and its just f***ing great!

Thank you BIS

Great.

Can u give us ur joystick sensitivity setting? Thx.

[maxqubit 1]

Has anyone tried to fly'em with a xbox style controler? It might work better, just a guess...

link

Using the 360 controller from the beginning for flight and driving. It is a great alternative.

unfortunately lots of ppl become paranoid as soon as the spot the evil C (for console) word.

I tried with very limited success to play the infantry also with the 360 controller but at that moment i can't get my keyconfig right. It won't let me setup things as in Elite (like right analogue trigger DOESN'T fire??)

Anyway, to recap the flying with the 360 controller. My setup is like this:

Flying = Left stick

Looking around = Right stick

Rudders = Left/Right analogue triggers

Up/Down = Left/Right shoulder buttons

Y = Fire

B = Manual fire

X = Change weapons

A = Action

back = Hover

Click left stick = Target next

Click right stick = Visor

D-up = action menu up

D-down = action menu down

---

Not decided on this but atm:

D-left = zoom out

D-right = zoom in

menu = next team

I experimented a bit, but the flying part works best for me in this setup

If you have a 360 controller lying around you should really give it a try.

[uncle reiben 0]

I believe this has been addressed in some iteration before in this thread but I'd like to add my observation as well to see if it helps to illustrate the problem. Also I'd just like to get my licks in to push for a betterment of the situation

I come from a predominantly flight sim background and I love the new helicopter flight modeling in comparison to OFP. However, there is one thing that caught me as peculiar right off when I tried to land using the roll axis and after playing with it in 3rd person view I figured out it affects the pitch axis too, but is less noticable.

The Pitch/Roll Axis of the Mi-17 and UH-60 (only things I've played with in the demo) are a bit jacked up... it appears that the helicopters attempt to roll around a position 2m or so above their rotors. it actually pitches and rolls around where the camera is centered if you use the Command View.

what results is the fuselage does a pendulum sort of motion sliding left and right as it rolls, and a similar but less noticable effect along the pitch axis

This is most notable when trying to land.

In real life or in a bona fide Flight Simulator, a helicopter rolls and pitches about its center of gravity (more or less). As some of you probably know it accomplishes maneuvering by tilting the main rotor system accordingly, which vectors the thrust at a different angle and subsequently pitches or rolls the fuselage.

to simplify it I drew it out.

Here's a well made, third party SH-60 by Aerosoft in MSFS2004 at a 45 Degree right bank:

Now here's the UH-60 in Armed Assault in a 45 degree left bank:

Note the pendulum effect as the ArmA UH-60 "slides" as it rolls to 45 degrees and leaves it's initial positioning.

Using Commander View from the front or rear and applying only left or right stick in a hover and it becomes obvious that the aircraft "Swings" along the center of the screen.

Although it can be ignored and conquered with practice, lowering the Pivot Point of the Pitch and Roll Axes would:

1) Be proper, and improve the flight model accuracy

2) Make it easier for everyone--casual flyers and flight sim junkies alike.

The rest of the flight modeling leads me to believe this might have been an oversight. It only makes things more difficult for all. It's a simplified model to begin with, so that everyone can pick it up easily, so why add an unreaslistic factor which makes things more difficult?

Look at it this way... when you're trying to land on a specific point every movement is countered by the fact that you're "kicking" the aircraft in the opposite direction of your intended flight path... if you're only trying to make very minute adjustments this is a big problem. You could eventually get used to it of course, but why should you have to?

Helicopters and Flight sims have always been an imperfect marriage. if you fly a Chopper in Microsoft Flight Simulator at 100% realism settings you're actually not getting a very accurate representation of flying a helicopter. Fact is, your body's equilibrium (ability to sense orientation relative to gravity's pull) peripheral vision, depth perception et al are very important in piloting a Helicopter, none of them can be simulated in a computer game. So games like Armed Assault and OFP simplify them some so everyone can have the ability to get the hang of it... which is great, and why I don't criticize what they give us too harshly... but I believe the issue I've explained (rather lengthily) above just makes it harder on all of us and should be considered.

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse but I'd just really like to see that changed

[d034rk 0]

It's pretty obvious in a video I recorded some days ago. Note that V0=0.

[dm 9]

...

The Pitch/Roll Axis of the Mi-17 and UH-60 (only things I've played with in the demo) are a bit jacked up... it appears that the helicopters attempt to roll around a position 2m or so above their rotors. it actually pitches and rolls around where the camera is centered if you use the Command View.

what results is the fuselage does a pendulum sort of motion sliding left and right as it rolls, and a similar but less noticable effect along the pitch axis

This is most notable when trying to land.

In real life or in a bona fide Flight Simulator, a helicopter rolls and pitches about its center of gravity (more or less). As some of you probably know it accomplishes maneuvering by tilting the main rotor system accordingly, which vectors the thrust at a different angle and subsequently pitches or rolls the fuselage.

to simplify it I drew it out.

Here's a well made, third party SH-60 by Aerosoft in MSFS2004 at a 45 Degree right bank:

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/imajez/images/RealRoll.jpg

Now here's the UH-60 in Armed Assault in a 45 degree left bank:

http://home.hawaii.rr.com/imajez/images/ArmARoll.jpg

Note the pendulum effect as the ArmA UH-60 "slides" as it rolls to 45 degrees and leaves it's initial positioning.

...

Actually, neither ArmA nor M$ FS have it right.

A helicopter rolls around a point just below the center of the rotor disc, not around its CoG (yes the CoG has effect on the point the helicopter rolls around, but its not THE point the helicopter rolls around)

The "pendulum" effect is more technically correct, its just the pivot point is too high in the ArmA flight model.

Edit: see Lynx, HH-53, videos.

Also, the position the helicopter rolls around is very dependant on the phase of flight and the style of maneuver. That is, when stationary it will roll around a lower point than when flying at speed.

[domox 0]

At present the choppers have a generic fixed wing flight model with a vertical thrust ability so they can hover.... So this means at high speeds there is little to no rudder control which, with choppers is complete bollocks. Also another issue I have is that in the AV8 you cannot do any STOL... Whats the point in having an AV8 without that ability?

If this is fixable by the community then please release the tools and let it be done, otherwise, don't put objects in the game if it is going to be a poor translation of the real thing.

I enjoy the game thoroughly aside from these points BTW, GJ BI...

[max power 21]

I'm pretty sure that the CGs of those aircraft are near the top, not through the nose like in MSFS...

[domox 0]

its not so much a center of gravity issue, its just how choppers fly, they pivot around their rotor head, and with CH47s they are just aft of the fore rotor head (closer to the front of half way). This creates a feeling of hanging from the rotors.... One more griped, it's impossible to Auto Rotate in this game lol...

[Maddmatt 1]

I'm pretty sure that the CGs of those aircraft are near the top, not through the nose like in MSFS...

As said before MS Flight sim isn't perfectly realistic.

[Jinef 2]

Speaking from some authority I can say these new flight model scharacteristics are really an improvement on OFP. There still remains some points of contention but I have every confidence they will be resolved.

As well as the local bug.

[otester 0]

The planes are not very good for dog fighting still unless it's the harrier?

[Rambo-16AAB 0]

Can dog fight just fine with the Camel, when using Stick/rudder/throttel controll. Wouldnt attempt flying anything with a mouse/keyboard combo.

[Mobious 0]

Yeah I agree with the jets.. They need to be fixed.. The rudder should have more authority.. In general the flight model needs to be reworked. Right now it feels like you are ice skating.

I know this isnt a flight sim but I would like to see a working HUD rather than looking over it...

[otester 0]

Can dog fight just fine with the Camel, when using Stick/rudder/throttel controll. Wouldnt attempt flying anything with a mouse/keyboard combo.

Yeh well thats a Camel, try the harrier.

[MehMan 0]

Can dog fight just fine with the Camel, when using  Stick/rudder/throttel controll. Wouldnt attempt flying anything with a mouse/keyboard combo.

You can dogfight in the Camel with a mouse and keyboard perfectly.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

Can dog fight just fine with the Camel, when using  Stick/rudder/throttel controll. Wouldnt attempt flying anything with a mouse/keyboard combo.

Yeh well thats a Camel, try the harrier.

The Harrier wasn't built to dogfight.

[otester 0]

Can dog fight just fine with the Camel, when using Stick/rudder/throttel controll. Wouldnt attempt flying anything with a mouse/keyboard combo.

Yeh well thats a Camel, try the harrier.

The Harrier wasn't built to dogfight.

Well how did it do so well in the falklands then? Apart from the AiM-9X's from US.

[Guest RKSL-Rock]

The Harrier wasn't built to dogfight.

Well how did it do so well in the falklands then? Apart from the AiM-9X's from US.

Actually the Sea Harrier was primarily a fighter.  But since we are talking about the AV-8B you're right its primary role is ground attack and CAS.  But they still are used for limited CAP and are very capable low speed dogfighters once their heavy ordinance is gone.  Regardless the flight model isn’t good enough to suit all types of aircraft in game.

ArmA may not be a flight sim but since BIS added aircraft to the engine they should at least make them usuable.

Also re: the AIM-9X, they only came into service in the last few years, it was the AIM-9L