Helicopters in AA

[Gedis 0]

you are that serious that BF2 is more realistic than ofp what to say about arma?

ok then,

those stupid medic kits, droped by medics...

ammo dropped by mashine gunners,

repairs, rearms, vehicles driving, like apc's, tanks where only you need to be inside to drive and fire...

none of this or more are in ofp, that's why it's so real comparing to bf2.

and about flying ok i can, i just need not to switch weapons, only rockets oh and i need good joystick with rudder controling...

[bangtail 0]

AH-1Z aging? Nope, it's far from it. Plus the West has a jet. Sounds pretty fair to me!

E

[xnodunitx 0]

It´s part of every Apache pilot´s training to do exactly that.

You still can use numpad to look where ever you want in Arma, so I don´t see that as a valid point.

No its not part of the training. They have a headmounted display they is linked to an movable TV/IR camera, so they see where ever they point thier head. With out a similar headtracking ability, i.e. the $150 Track/IR Pro it will be dam diffacult to fly in cockpit view while in combat below tree top level using the hatswitch for view movement. The flight model is not as borked as I first remarked it to be.

Congrats on entirerly skipping and not reading my post with the information that he was referring to.

Instead of the Ka-50 maybe they could have used the Ka-56

The reason pilots go through "the bag" training ont he AH-64 is because the PNVS has equipment that can see through difficult weather,the human eye cannot do so too well,so they are trained to use the PNVS to examine their surroundings and maneuver thus instead of using what they might THINK they see...I used to have a video of it but now its lost,I believe it was on Lockheed's website.

[OIK 0]

I do not have the game but flying helicopters and planes seems to be , from what i read, less fun the OFP.

My wish to BIS is to do something or even to return to the old flying system from OFP.

I loved the way i flew the helicopters then except planes.

So this is my wish for .

[Gimpster 0]

xnodunitx,

I did fully read and understand your post. I was just trying to make the point that you were compairing a fluidly moving field of view to a non-user-friendly akward way of moving the field of view. The one is not in equality to the other in terms of ease of use and benifit despite serving the same basic function.

Personaly I like that the flight model is more complex then the one used in OFP. Its still a little rough but not too bad. Once the input lag is reduced and the persion increased it will be fine.

I do find it odd though that some people would choose to vastly limit their peer base by disallowing features that mean a large part of the comunity will only be able to serve a limited function on their servers. But its there server so I really can not complain.

[xnodunitx 0]

Ah okay,I misunderstood you,I apologize then

[colligpip 0]

Could BIS Please take note of the length of the thread about choppers in arma and make a flight model config that we can all easily change in notepad- that is if you cant already. This way i think every body would be happy. obvioulsy there would have to be a server side config for multiplay.

we could have several different configs

A orignal OFP

b ARMA

C BF2 style helos

d Full sim with avionics and 3d clickable pit (i wish)

o well only an idea i know nothing about how to alter the flight model or whatever.

[xnodunitx 0]

3D clickable pit? Do you mean 3D cockpit instead of a flat one or something else?

[Gimpster 0]

No worries xnodunitx, we just were not thinking on the same page is all.

Some day a combined arms milsim will be built that is a true simulation of all included included systems. Until then this is as close as we can get untill the mod comunity starts to crank out improvments.

[pwablo 0]

In comparison to the flight model in OFP, I think the model employed in ArmA is a positive step in the right direction for realism, however I feel it has some issues that need to be addressed in order to make it more enjoyable.

1. I think that the collective needs more authority, inputs currently feel mushy and delayed, and don’t provide as much response as is often needed.

2. Roll inputs are progressive and smooth, but the pitch inputs seem to be jerky, and less refined.

3. The amount of available roll needs to be increased so that the helos can turn quicker, when in forward flight. Currently, full deflection of the cyclic provides about 60 degrees of bank. It should be possible to lay the helo on its side and notice some slip in altitude as you bank.

3. The rudder inputs currently fade to non-existence around 80 knots. Although this is fairly realistic for actual helos due to drag, it takes a lot away from the playability of the game and makes the helos fly more like fixed wing aircraft, which just don’t feel right.

It would be better if the rudder input effect deteriorated nearer 175 knots so that the player had a greater range of control, much like OFP's model. Without this element of control, accurate aiming can be really hit or miss with each pass.

4. The mass distribution between helo types is a little odd in ArmA. A greater differentiation needs to be felt when flying the heavier choppers.

I sincerely hope that the helo model is looked at in this game, as I know how many fans there are out there that have spent countless enjoyable hours in the editor, and in missions flying the islands in OFP.

Helo and fixed wing flight characteristics must have been at the top of the list of “anticipated improvements†for this title. It would be such a waste of potential, if the current Arma flight model was not tweaked that little bit to refine/restore some of the playability that we all shared in OFP.

Cheers

[Barely-injured 0]

In comparison to the flight model in OFP, I think the model employed in ArmA is a positive step in the right direction for realism, however I feel it has some issues that need to be addressed in order to make it more enjoyable.

1. I think that the collective needs more authority, inputs currently feel mushy and delayed, and don’t provide as much response as is often needed.

2. Roll inputs are progressive and smooth, but the pitch inputs seem to be jerky, and less refined.

3. The amount of available roll needs to be increased so that the helos can turn quicker, when in forward flight. Currently, full deflection of the cyclic provides about 60 degrees of bank. It should be possible to lay the helo on its side and notice some slip in altitude as you bank.

3. The rudder inputs currently fade to non-existence around 80 knots. Although this is fairly realistic for actual helos due to drag, it takes a lot away from the playability of the game and makes the helos fly more like fixed wing aircraft, which just don’t feel right.

It would be better if the rudder input effect deteriorated nearer 175 knots so that the player had a greater range of control, much like OFP's model. Without this element of control, accurate aiming can be really hit or miss with each pass.

4. The mass distribution between helo types is a little odd in ArmA. A greater differentiation needs to be felt when flying the heavier choppers.

I sincerely hope that the helo model is looked at in this game, as I know how many fans there are out there that have spent countless enjoyable hours in the editor, and in missions flying the islands in OFP.

Helo and fixed wing flight characteristics must have been at the top of the list of “anticipated improvements†for this title. It would be such a waste of potential, if the current Arma flight model was not tweaked that little bit to refine/restore some of the playability that we all shared in OFP.

Cheers

I dont have the game but the improvments you suggest sounds good to me althought i dont realy mind the current rudder system as I am used to EECH rudder fading at about 70.

Now sombody should take those suggestions and send them to BIS to give them a good starting Idea on what they should work on in their next patch , better than complaining on the same issues all over again.

By the way since you people mentioned avionics is it possible to implement atleast some systems to chopperes and jets in ArmA I mean now that the MFDs are animated is it possible to edit them in some way?? sorry if its a silly question but I am no modding expert.

[xnodunitx 0]

A few addons in OFP already have animated MFD's that can do several things,its all about configing,textures and hidden selections,unfortunatly we only have so many so we can provide so many things. It is possible to have say a map on an MFD with a compass as well. However the allowance for compasses are one in jets and two in helicopter LOD's,biggest problem right now is about the amount of numbers allowed for these things.

I don't really mean to sound "self" promoting or anything but test out franze's apache,he has given it the ability to have several failing systems in which you can monitor them,maps,thanks to BAS,weapon display and a few extra's.

[Barely-injured 0]

A few addons in OFP already have animated MFD's that can do several things,its all about configing,textures and hidden selections,unfortunatly we only have so many so we can provide so many things. It is possible to have say a map on an MFD with a compass as well. However the allowance for compasses are one in jets and two in helicopter LOD's,biggest problem right now is about the amount of numbers allowed for these things.

I don't really mean to sound "self" promoting or anything but test out franze's apache,he has given it the ability to have several failing systems in which you can monitor them,maps,thanks to BAS,weapon display and a few extra's.

OMG I cant believe in 5 years of ofp i managed to miss the release of those franze's apache

They are great as well as the systems which is exatly the thing that I had in mind truly awsome work. However I guess proper radar modeling is not possible with the current engins

but still if people are willing to make more of this kind of work in ArmA I will be very happy

[Mr_Tea 0]

I don`t know what went wrong with the heli controls, but they need to be reworked.

The Cobra fly`s not that good, but the handling of the mh6 is horrible.

That all can be fixed with a patch, not a big problem. It`s "only" reworking some values.

[Guest]

Someone use joystick to control helicopter or airplane?

Can you confirm if its better this way or same crappy as mouse/keyboard?

[colligpip 0]

3D clickable pit?  Do you mean 3D cockpit instead of a flat one or something else?

Yes a 3d cockpit with clickable switches and fully useable avioncs is what i meant ( I was dreaming i dont really think this could happen in OFP ).

You know its a real shame the best helicopter flight sim around is EECH but that is really dated and I love the fact you can get out and walk about in Arma/Ofp and do so many other things. I Would pay good money for a simulated helicopter addon for ARMA with full avionics like EECH/Long Bow 2.

Could not the ARMA engine do this it has the abilty to render low level landscapes for tree hugging heli action surely it would not take much to fully simulate helicopters.

HEAR ME BIS. BIS could continue to make money with this engine if they could make all vehicles proper simulations such as falcon 4 and release them as super high quality 3d simulations of the real thing ( okay im dreaming)

[Shadow NX 1]

Its interesting how the northern troops get the experimental never been fielded KA50, while the southern troops only get an aging AH1Z.  Doesent really seem fair.  Now if the South had a Comanche things would be different as it has a similar performance envelope.

Im a bit late but well...

The Ka-50 has seen combat already, there were a handfull ( probaly just two ) of them operating in Chechnya.

[Postal69 0]

Just to confirm sovietunions post.. can any one plz answer the question.. as I have asked with no responce.. useing a flight stick, do the choppers handle better. than using mouse and k/b? cheers.

[GaX 0]

Just to confirm sovietunions post.. can any one plz answer the question.. as I have asked with no responce.. useing a flight stick, do the choppers handle better. than using mouse and k/b? cheers.

Using stick or mouse/keyboard is the same thing cause it's the flight model bugged....

I was a good pilot in ofp (and i really like ofp chopper flight model) but in Arma helicopters there's something wrong...

I tried with both mouse/keyboard and joystick and chopper is impossible to controll smoothly anyway

Surely u can always drive the chopper less bad as you can and fire guided missiles from far distance but u can't do anything manual or that need a precision flight (with joystick too)

[Postal69 0]

thx for the responce

[funnyguy1 0]

I thinkt that thanks to the new flight model the AI flies much more realistic, It makes larger circles when attacking the target, and does It much more fluent. However, proper missile tracking and less kamikaze-like tactics* would force It to be even more realistic.

I hope the flight model issiue will be fixed somehow, either by BIS, or by the community, nevertheless, what bothers me the most is improper target selection (destroying threats first, from a distance not like*), pilot/AI gunner or AI pilot/gunner relation and missile locking (LOBL/LOAL)/tracking system (all with the suitable interface).

edit: and yes, I recommend franze'z helos to anyone who had experience only with the standard ofp helos...

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ] It makes larger circles when attacking the target

Tested that in editor with armored unit. Kamov came at me as I was straight in it´s flightpath and fired. I moved on about 700 m´s and it took the helo 7 circles until it was able to target me again. I was just sitting there, not moving or such. Helos just can´t turn fast anymore. It´s impossible, for players and AI. Needless to say that this is not reflecting reality.

[xnodunitx 0]

3D clickable pit? Do you mean 3D cockpit instead of a flat one or something else?

Yes a 3d cockpit with clickable switches and fully useable avioncs is what i meant ( I was dreaming i dont really think this could happen in OFP ).

You know its a real shame the best helicopter flight sim around is EECH but that is really dated and I love the fact you can get out and walk about in Arma/Ofp and do so many other things. I Would pay good money for a simulated helicopter addon for ARMA with full avionics like EECH/Long Bow 2.

Could not the ARMA engine do this it has the abilty to render low level landscapes for tree hugging heli action surely it would not take much to fully simulate helicopters.

HEAR ME BIS. BIS could continue to make money with this engine if they could make all vehicles proper simulations such as falcon 4 and release them as super high quality 3d simulations of the real thing ( okay im dreaming)

If the animation system is more allowing then it may be possible to tie animations to actions. In the OWP Mi-26 the pilot would open the window near them when the helicopter started up. The problem is that OFP is limited to animations quite a good bit,not to mention all the coding and the use of the extra program needed. However if this rule has been demolished or atleast extended then it may be possible. Personally I'd love to see a pilot reach forward and press a button on an MFD to "switch" the screen.

[Metal Heart 0]

That would be awesome... ly useless, just like the trigger finger animation. Now if the MFDs and other displays could actually serve some purpose such as radar, RWR, AGM guidance, HSD and such, that would be pretty darn nice.

[Amalka 0]

Today's ArmA flight model (even slightly modified with 1.01) is very realistic ... to RC models.

Where the bank seems almost fine, the pitch is like a 3Kg RC model not like 17t heavy Mi17. You can even make craziest things with Mi than with MH-6.

To achieve the max possible bank you just need to move your stick a few degrees. Then, for the remaining path of the joystick there is no more space for the chopper to react. Just to hoover by hand (not using autohoover) is almost impossible. The time in which the choppers are gaining the speed is not in the relation to the time needed to loose the speed. (yes! there are exactly the same forces causing both, accelerate/decelerate).

Just watch OFP choppers fly and land. Do the same with ArmA. Which flights are looking more realistic? Yeah, OFP ones...

BTW: Why the f* BIS implemented a Harrier WITHOUT implementing its major function? I don't get that.