Helicopters in AA

[4 IN 1 0]

I find the secret is a joystick.

I'm really ham-fisted flying with keyboard/mouse, but with a joystick I can slam a Littlebird into the LZ and hot-extract with pretty pinpoint accuracy. I can stall turn, turn on the spot (booting in a LOT of rudder helps) etc etc.

I've only ever been able to loop the [bAS] Littlebirds, but in theory I shouldn't even be able to do that. There is a pretty limited list of helicopters which are able to fully loop properly, so I think the fact you can't really do it in OFP is ok.

Or did you just see the opportunity to turn the cards around making a comment without any real basis?

I've been playing OFP since day 1 of its UK release, and I've played over 200 hours of BF2, so I have no prejudice against either. I suck at flying choppers in BF2 - the reason, I havent put the time in to learn to fly them.

The whole point of my post is that you answered yourself in your original post. You CAN do those things, once you've mastered how to do them

Great to hear! I dont WANT it to be bad, I just assumed since it simply _did not_ seem possible no matter how hard I tried, no steep learning curve - like in BF2 - no nothing, just a brick wall. A lot of other peps - savvy ofp veterans - seem to have the same experience as well.

So xnodunitx and DeadMeatXM2, any special configs? What joystick and so on?

Is the difference from a mouse in that the joystick can press, and press and press, at one axis when a mouse can't (and maybe the code dont even have like a.. build up or acceleration when you drag it like crazy and reset and repeat - like in bf2 for example)? Just asking you since you've tried with both.

i could do some of that with keyborad, just remember not to use it in intents MP firefight (more so if mission with AAA in it)i have once bring some 24 ppl dead in a mh-47, close to hot lz, taking dammage, stall turn on low agl, pull the nose back up and all the suddent lags a bit when shilka finally opens up, choppper touch down with 30+ forward speed(cause the lag the nose didnt pull up enought to bring the chopper to halt)

and 24 killed by (friendly) message show up at the left bottom

oppppps sorry

edit: didnt mean that kind of back door, so never mind what i said DM

[oneoff 0]

seeing the latest mi-17 video reminded me of this one from ofp

here

[2006noob 0]

Sorru for semi ot, but does this cut it?

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0170wingmanbv2.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0162wingmanextremejl0.jpg

[dmitri 0]

Sorru for semi ot, but does this cut it?

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0170wingmanbv2.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0162wingmanextremejl0.jpg

Haven't seen one of those in years. Good 'ol Logitech. Mine has since been retired due to a soundcard upgrade, and the loss of my machines only gameport

[kuIoodporny 45]

I have simple question - is Mi-24 Hind going to appear in ArmA? (like BIS addons made for basic OFP)

[undead6001 0]

My first post here and I hate it to be complaining, but...

The only thing that I really don't like from user videos released so far is the flight model. It makes me really worried as it looks like cr**. If *this* is more realistic (which I highly doubt), then I guess I preferred the arcade style more, I like heavy inertia. I hope BIS will see all the complaints and can fix it. I'm sure most minor bugs will be fixed anyway and besides, OFP never was without its small faults.

[EiZei 0]

EDIT: Whoops, bad reading skills.

[meyamoti 0]

No game is ever without small faults,no game has no bugs,no game has no hacks,no game has perfection.

[BraTTy 0]

I have been playing OFP since its release and I can/could fly the choppers with precision.

I play BF2 and as a pilot I prefer to fly OFP choppers (asides the fact in BF2 soldiers can shoot from the doors)

I don't have alot of hours flying choppers in BF2, BFV I did

I so much can't wait for ARMA,I want to stop playing BF2 and it certainly looks like the "BF2 Killer"

I also want to say that I am more than impressed and ARMA stuff is more than I expected.

Congrats to BIS for all their hard work ! I know how much time it takes to even just bugfix a small addon ready for a beta release , talk about a commercial realease

[spetznaz14 0]

I have simple question - is Mi-24 Hind going to appear in ArmA? (like BIS addons made for basic OFP)

I'm sure I saw the Hind in earlier videos of arma. I wish there was more planes though, and there does not seem to be AH64.

[2006noob 0]

Sorru for semi ot, but does this cut it?

http://img465.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0170wingmanbv2.jpg

http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0162wingmanextremejl0.jpg

Haven't seen one of those in years. Good 'ol Logitech. Mine has since been retired due to a soundcard upgrade, and the loss of my machines only gameport    

Yeah, lucky me - I put in a soundblaster live! a couple of weeks ago prior to finding this again, so it should work all fine and dandyy.

If what some say is true - and they sure seem to be sure of it - about how ofp doesen't have to be as sluggish if you have joystick vs a mouse then I understand why some are upstruck, and maybe I should be too - because I'm aching to try some real sim which with the old longbow game being dos and impossible to find is pretty nonexistant today. But I enjoy flying with a mouse, and if this is better with that I'm kinda torn. Somehow the model itself may have to be sensitive work though it should be more of a matter of how the input from the mouse is handled, but who knows.

Would love to hear some pilots or people dealing with avionics and flight on a theoretical level give their oppinion and end this nightmare of half truths and uncertainty.

Not just good, or bad. But a throughrough statement and explanation breaking it all down.

edit: aww crap I just realized I didn't put in the additional card that mainly had the dat tape sheit and - if there ever was one - gameport  

No stick for me

[xnodunitx 0]

http://forums.bistudio.com/oldsmileys/smile_o.gif[/img]

Is the difference from a mouse in that the joystick can press, and press and press, at one axis when a mouse can't (and maybe the code dont even have like a.. build up or acceleration when you drag it like crazy and reset and repeat - like in bf2 for example)? Just asking you since you've tried with both.

I use a Logitech Wingman extreme- http://www.cheap-laptop-and-used-laptop-review.com/Gaming7.jpg

Its been perfect,giving me the ability to easily control my aircraft,the buttons are easily defineable but I'll give an example of the current setup.

Top trigger is used to fire,the black button at the top is used to look around the cockpit,not as fluent as D pad mind you. The silver button on the top to the left side of the black button is used for locking,tab effect. The button just below it is used to cycle through weaponry. The top silver button to the right of the black button pad thing is used to cycle through the action menu,same with the one below it. There are two button located on the base,the one to the farthest is basicly set to be enter,the other is currently unsed.

The joystick can twist left and right,so that if I am a helicopter iit will control yaw without effecting the pitch,as long as I don't tilt the joystick. There is a slider at the base o fthe joystick which control asecending or descending for helicopters,and engine power for aircraft.

Aside from being able to use avionics the joystick can also control ground vehicles,tilting forward to control speed and tilting the joystick in left or right will cause the vehicle to turn.

Its given me a much easier time in dealing with piloting as well as opening a new door to control over my helicopter or aircraft.

@ spetznaz14

Oh don't worry about the AH-64,Franze and I will get one in,no worries.

As for OFP addons,I wouldn't really expect to see many of them in the game,atleast not with normal maps. If they make a texture sheet of the vehicles exterior with normal mapping but interior with none or little then it may work,but as Deadmeat said earlier,one texture will equal three,and with the amount of textures the OFP community uses on their vehicles,that will murder most PC's.

[2006noob 0]

Thank you for the solid reply! What about the input and sensitivity?

[dm 9]

So xnodunitx and DeadMeatXM2, any special configs? What joystick and so on?

Is the difference from a mouse in that the joystick can press, and press and press, at one axis when a mouse can't (and maybe the code dont even have like a.. build up or acceleration when you drag it like crazy and reset and repeat - like in bf2 for example)? Just asking you since you've tried with both.

I used to use a logitech wingman extreme too, but have recently (last year) switched to a Saitek X-52. Its much much much better than the wingman, and the addition of a trillion buttons AND a mouse pointer means when I'm flying I dont have to take my hands off the throttle/stick. I dont use any special configs, just re-mapped all the buttons to various buttons on the X-52. Havent tried using the mode switch yet, but I imagine it will allow 3 sets of buttons to be mapped (if it works)

Yeah, I expect that the difference is that the joystick provides continual input, whereas the mouse doesnt.

As I experience it, the mouse appears to just use the direct input - drag down once and it'll drop the nose by that much. You can get much smoother, more responsive reactions from a joystick.

[xnodunitx 0]

If by input you mean to define what it does. In the programs menu you go to the logitec program and open up the wingman profile,there you can select a button on the wingman and then press a keyboard key to define what key it would do.

As for sensitivity I cannot say,I don't see an option with that in the wingman profile or I am looking in the wrong place,I do see mouse sensitivity on OFP's option screen so I suppose that is what I would use. I'll test it later but at its current sensitivity,a slight movement will pivot the helicopter.

Might have to give it a whirl sometime Deadmeat,though I would think a joystick such as that is moreso fit for something such as Lock-on,I can't really imagine most games having that many buttons in the air,though it would be nice to have more air activity,still..OFP is second best in aircraft being able to do things from what I'v seen..anyway.

[uncle reiben 0]

Another thing which I'm really hoping for is more fluid and consistent AI Handling of choppers

I like to use choppers in many of my missions, being able to set them up to do exactly what I want consistently would make me a happy Reibie.

I was able to pull off a lot with the old Mission Editor but forcing AI to do precise maneuvers was always a chore... and when you finally get it sometimes it only works for a few missions and breaks... oh so saddening

[2006noob 0]

I'm just like   at the current joystick aesthetics, sci-fi and chrome hell extravaganza with neon lights and what not

I had no idea. Too on the shapes and lines on the sticks. Kinda futuristic, very broken down and stylized and jaggy (probably for ergonomics, but i'd like to have that big typical knob with a good set of round thumb buttons - like seen on my ancient wingman). That S52 system is a shining example of that, but it sure seems nice usability wise. Any recommendations on current single unit joysticks (only if you know any right off the bat)? Not too expensive, like 30$ give or take a little.

Yeah exactly xnodunitx, I meant like axis-sensitivity or that kinda thing. Ok, good to know everything should work on default.

Saw someone commenting on jets saying it just needed some tweaking - for ofp.

Quote[/b] ]As I experience it, the mouse appears to just use the direct input - drag down once and it'll drop the nose by that much. You can get much smoother, more responsive reactions from a joystick.

Mh that's exactly what I felt, that it just hit a wall and no more. Maybe that's what they've intended to "correct" for in arma.

And while we're at it, are there any good movies demonstrating rich joystick-heliflying in ofp?

Would love too actually see it (words are only that good) for myself, a part of my mind is still having a hard time accepting that everything was tucked away in there all this time. Just seems too good to be true ^^

[Shashman 0]

Good ol' Micro$oft Sidewinder Precision Pro... All the buttons, features and ergonomics I need. I've been using it for over 4 years and it's perfect

[Pierrot 0]

Next thing you know people will be asking for realistic startup engine procedures...

Realistic startup procedures might be easily realised by mods. But it is very hard to realise realistic flight model by mods. What BIS had better pay their time to is definitly realistic flight model.

In reality, we can exchange kinetic energy and position energy freely. A chopper flying high altitude can easily get speed at the cost of altitude and a chopper flying fast can easily get altitude at the cost of its speed. A chopper with enough speed can safely land even though its engine stalls. Realistic flight model must bring much variety to missions.

But at the same time, it often requires joystics to control realistic choppers: delicate control over throttle and trim is needed. Unfortunately, not all people have joystics. Many of us have to control choppers with only mouse and keyboard.

So how about introducing Veteral and Caded modes in the flight model? In the Caded mode, choppers can easily be controlled only by mouse and keyboard just like OFP. In the Veteran mode, joystic is the best device to control choppers. Some delicate and skillful technique is needed but realistic maneuvers such as barrel roll, loop and emergency landing are able.

[max power 21]

I guess in multiplayer, that would mean alienating one or other group, unfortunately.

[dm 9]

Might have to give it a whirl sometime Deadmeat,though I would think a joystick such as that is moreso fit for something such as Lock-on,I can't really imagine most games having that many buttons in the air,though it would be nice to have more air activity,still..OFP is second best in aircraft being able to do things from what I'v seen..anyway.

Well it IS really meant for stull like M$ FS and Lomac (I play both so thats why I got it)

I just find it handy to have the "important" functions mapped to the extra buttons. I can do anything from the action menu with 3 buttons under my thumb (up/down/perform action), change weapons, bring the map up, compass etc etc. Just means I never have to take my hands off the stick.

And yeah, I'm really not a fan of conventional aircraft in OFP. Much prefer choppers.

Quote[/b] ]I'm just like at the current joystick aesthetics, sci-fi and chrome hell extravaganza with neon lights and what not

Yeah, I'm not a fan either. Two sticks I did like are the Thrustmaster Cougar (tho that is like Å250/$400) and the Suncomm F-15 Talon sticks, but they went bust years ago and you can only find them on ebay once in a blue moon

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

I was wondering, now that ArmA is out, can someone tell me what the definitive initial TO&E in terms of aircraft is, of ArmA?

I gather so far:

"East": MI-17 (armed & unarmed)

KA-50

"West": AH-1

AH-64

OH-6

AV-8

Is that correct and/or complete?

[Heatseeker 0]

BUZZARD @ Nov. 15 2006,14:08)]I was wondering, now that ArmA is out, can someone tell me what the definitive initial TO&E in terms of aircraft is, of ArmA?

I gather so far:

"East": MI-17 (armed & unarmed)

KA-50

"West": AH-1

AH-64

OH-6

AV-8

Is that correct and/or complete?

I gather:

1 KA-50

1 Mi17 w\ rocket pods

1 Mi17 w\

1 UH 60 w\ rocket pods

1 Uh 60 with miniguns

1 Ah6 with 4 side transports

1 Ah6 armed (ffars/ M136 ??)

2 AV8's (diferent loadouts ??)

1 super cobra

1 camel biplane west

1 camel biplane east

Not much... no hind, cessna, apache... no C130 .

[-ZG-BUZZARD 0]

Yeah, doing a Cessna for ArmA sounds really weird... still, one can only hope that a decent Su-25 turns up (for OFP they didn't differ much from BIS's flawed model with its wheels in the engines...). Also, no Chinook, but we'll just hope BAS will get the Chinook into ArmA... and RHS get's Scar's Hind brought to ArmA...

Edit: Wait... no AH-64 either?

[Rg 0]

No AH-64?

That was my favorite, because the flight model felt more real then the other choppers due to the slower response/slightly sluggish/"weightier" feel.

I really hope the flight model in ArmA will still be worked on for a possible fix in future patches. As others are saying, it's way to sensitive/twitchy and doesn't give the impression of any weight.