Helicopters in AA

[franze 196]

Well whatever its like hopefully it will be modable so some sort of proper avionics could be included, even perhaps a clickable switch cockpit- perhaps thats asking fo to much

I just want longbow 2 style avionics in armed assualt. I would love it if you had to really learn to fly the choppers properly form engine start up to everything and on tanks as well. :-) I ask to much I know but we dont know how modable armed assualt is yet wouldnt it be fantastic if we had this.

You'll be waiting forever for that stuff in ArmA.

I'm sure helicopters in ArmA are 99% the same as they are in FP. We get an improved flight model, but that's only a small part of the pie. I doubt we'll see proper weapons integration, etc. any time in the future.

[dmitri 0]

The thing with bf2 is that it's a flexible system that lets you do stuff with high accuracy. Is it's realistic? Probably not. But is the stiff ofp take on it any better? Worse if you ask me.

I found OFP's easier than BF2, nap of the earth, fast landings, whatever.

In any case, don't quote BF2 physics here. Jets for example - not great in OFP, but BF2's jets had handbrakes installed in the cockpits. "Ace" BF2 pilots doing donuts above my AA position.

[2006noob 0]

In OFP you can do all those things once you've mastered it.

Really, how? It may be a matter of player error and me at the time only having a mouse handy, so I honestly mean that.

I could never put it to it's side and turn around in one movement, impossible to land, very slow throttle control. And so on. Feeling like a rail train. Impossible to put it in a near completely vertical position nose pointing downwards (which is possible in real life), more like a gentle forward going / hoovering invisibly cutting altitude. All in all a very locked in feeling. Not being able to swiff it around in all directions.

Rolls, barrel, loops and so on? Or did you just see the opportunity to turn the cards around making a comment without any real basis?

[2006noob 0]

The thing with bf2 is that it's a flexible system that lets you do stuff with high accuracy. Is it's realistic? Probably not. But is the stiff ofp take on it any better? Worse if you ask me.

I found OFP's easier than BF2, nap of the earth, fast landings, whatever.

In any case, don't quote BF2 physics here. Jets for example - not great in OFP, but BF2's jets had handbrakes installed in the cockpits. "Ace" BF2 pilots doing donuts above my AA position.

I'll quote whatever I want dmitri.

As I said - that might be better than doing a design that does a poor and unrealistic job in what it deals out on the battlefield.

But as said, it might just be me not knowing how to configure it correctly or whatever.

[meyamoti 0]

I'm not faulting bf2 for its flight model,its great and all but my true dislike with it is the one thing that can ruin a game the most,the people that play it,I see people porting over than want to do nothing more than "pwn" (I hate that word with a passion) others so they rather miss the insight .

[xnodunitx 0]

Oh sounds like easy stuff to me,haven't used a simple helicopter in awhile on OFP.

Its hard to say which is better,it all depends on the helicopter you use in OFP as they almost all have various capabilities in maneuverability and speed. I do know what you mean though,in BF2 the cobra and mangusta where maneuverable and could do barrel rolls,etc,so on and so forth. I'v found out lately that if you want the best experience in OFP with helicopter and a whole new level with aircraft then you have to use the joystick,its rather reverse for the two,in bf2 the joystick is just hectic and its easier to use the mouse and keyboard,in OFP its rather opposite,of course you loose the auto hover feature but a quick tap to the keyboard fixes that.

[Journeyman 0]

I don’t like the new chopper dynamics from those videos .... Too twitchy/has no weight/feels like an R/C model! Bring it back to where it was with OFP and I'll be happy!

Heavy things turn slowly and stop slowly; heavier things turn even slower and stop even slower!  

Me thinks a patch, unless those videos are lying!  

[meyamoti 0]

Yeah its like comparing franze's apaches against the rhs hind,the movement and response time varies due to the weight and so on.

I'd wait to try it myself before passing judgement.

[dm 9]

In OFP you can do all those things once you've mastered it.

Really, how? It may be a matter of player error and me at the time only having a mouse handy, so I honestly mean that.

I could never put it to it's side and turn around in one movement, impossible to land, very slow throttle control. And so on. Feeling like a rail train. Impossible to put it in a near completely vertical position nose pointing downwards (which is possible in real life), more like a gentle forward going / hoovering invisibly cutting altitude. All in all a very locked in feeling. Not being able to swiff it around in all directions.

Rolls, barrel, loops and so on?

I find the secret is a joystick.

I'm really ham-fisted flying with keyboard/mouse, but with a joystick I can slam a Littlebird into the LZ and hot-extract with pretty pinpoint accuracy. I can stall turn, turn on the spot (booting in a LOT of rudder helps) etc etc.

I've only ever been able to loop the [bAS] Littlebirds, but in theory I shouldn't even be able to do that. There is a pretty limited list of helicopters which are able to fully loop properly, so I think the fact you can't really do it in OFP is ok.

Or did you just see the opportunity to turn the cards around making a comment without any real basis?

I've been playing OFP since day 1 of its UK release, and I've played over 200 hours of BF2, so I have no prejudice against either. I suck at flying choppers in BF2 - the reason, I havent put the time in to learn to fly them.

The whole point of my post is that you answered yourself in your original post. You CAN do those things, once you've mastered how to do them

[uncle reiben 0]

Are the attitude restrictions are still in effect for rotary winged aircraft in ArmA?

I think that was one of the biggest turn offs. preventing pitch and roll past certain angles really hinder versatility of the Helicopter flight model itself.

The fixed wing flight model from OFP was atrocious... of course like anything you could get used to it, but the simplified modeling actually made fixed wing flight significantly more difficult in most cases. 3rd party addon makers and their tweaks to their own models help in some cases, but OFP for the most part was quite unfriendly to fixed wing aircraft. The environment itself, specifically the view distance restrictions made flying fast moving jets quite hard because you had little time to prepare for targets and terrain.

another thing was how the collider model worked on flying vehicles... at 150Km/H or whatever if you're touching the ground you start sustaining damage regardless of weather or not you had wheels. and Helicopters can't even move on the ground... Heli's like the UH-60 series with wheeled landing gear can surface taxi and perform rolling take-offs and landings (up to 20kts on a runway to aid in heavy takeoffs and such) by tilting their rotors forward (forward stick) and adding enough collective to begin moving forward but not enough to start lifting off.

Hopefully some of these things have changed in ArmA... Of course ArmA isn't a flight sim, so not much can be reasonably expected, but the more fidelity they add the more appreciative I'd be

[Journeyman 0]

another thing was how the collider model worked on flying vehicles... at 150Km/H or whatever if you're touching the ground you start sustaining damage regardless of weather or not you had wheels.

I think that was part of the collision detection bug that was fixed a while back! I hope so!

[Goldenwings2002 0]

Next thing you know people will be asking for realistic startup engine procedures...

[Journeyman 0]

Next thing you know people will be asking for realistic startup engine procedures...

Yes please!    

[meyamoti 0]

That would all be community type stuff.

[Pierrot 0]

Some ppl who played press demo said that it gets dfficult to control choppers in ArmA. We have accepted this message that flight model in ArmA becomes more and more real. But judging from the recent videos, we are sorry to conclude that the flight model (and collision detection) never gets real, the flight model gets only sensitive and collision detection has not yet been sharpened.

[dm 9]

Startup procedures can easily be modded by addon makers (and it will )

As for the flight model, I think it would be best to reserve judgement until you're flying it yourself, you have no idea what the player is doing with the controls in the videos, and most people creating the videos appear to be unskilled at flying...

[max power 21]

You aren't even kidding!

[Hawke 0]

Next thing you know people will be asking for realistic startup engine procedures...

actually realistic startup times for helicopters is on top of my "what i'd like to see" - list, but i doubt we'll ever get to see this in arma or any successor ever released

[sickboy 13]

actually realistic startup times for helicopters is on top of my "what i'd like to see" - list, but i doubt we'll ever get to see this in arma or any successor ever released  

Already Built into the WGL mod for OFP. I bet you that it will also be included in WGL mod for ArmA

[PASTOR 0]

Next thing you know people will be asking for realistic startup engine procedures...

actually realistic startup times for helicopters is on top of my "what i'd like to see" - list, but i doubt we'll ever get to see this in arma or any successor ever released

I would welcome a more realistic system, both for helos and cars/trucks.

[Goldenwings2002 0]

I remember the old days back in OFP when there was a helicopter parked somewhere...Hopped in it when I was almost ready to die and got away. Imagine if I had to sit in that helicopter waiting for the engine to spool and temps go up. The tank would have blasted me during that time. :P

[andersson 285]

I think one of the best things is to go through the start sequence while youre friends are protecting you and the chopper. When its warm, All mount!

[4 IN 1 0]

if the control are really did f###ed up i wish BIS somehow leave a back door so that they(or anyone else) could tune it, and we really do need someone who acturally know how to fly one of these things (with some 1### flight hours would be great) to tell us what when wrong(and whats cool) about the control, hopefully BIS could make changes(if any need/ possible) in upcoming patch, if BIS really hardcore it so it cant be change that would be...........suicidoly bad

[dm 9]

if the control are really did f###ed up i wish BIS somehow leave a back door so that they(or anyone else) could tune it... ...hopefully BIS could make changes(if any need/ possible) in upcoming patch, if BIS really hardcore it so it cant be change that would be...

And leave it open for possible exploits?

I expect that the controls will be "sensitivity" adjustable, but that'll be about it. Any changes in the flight model or input handlers would be done by BI in a patch, just like OFP.

[2006noob 0]

I find the secret is a joystick.

I'm really ham-fisted flying with keyboard/mouse, but with a joystick I can slam a Littlebird into the LZ and hot-extract with pretty pinpoint accuracy. I can stall turn, turn on the spot (booting in a LOT of rudder helps) etc etc.

I've only ever been able to loop the [bAS] Littlebirds, but in theory I shouldn't even be able to do that. There is a pretty limited list of helicopters which are able to fully loop properly, so I think the fact you can't really do it in OFP is ok.

Or did you just see the opportunity to turn the cards around making a comment without any real basis?

I've been playing OFP since day 1 of its UK release, and I've played over 200 hours of BF2, so I have no prejudice against either. I suck at flying choppers in BF2 - the reason, I havent put the time in to learn to fly them.

The whole point of my post is that you answered yourself in your original post. You CAN do those things, once you've mastered how to do them

Great to hear! I dont WANT it to be bad, I just assumed since it simply _did not_ seem possible no matter how hard I tried, no steep learning curve - like in BF2 - no nothing, just a brick wall. A lot of other peps - savvy ofp veterans - seem to have the same experience as well.

So xnodunitx and DeadMeatXM2, any special configs? What joystick and so on?

Is the difference from a mouse in that the joystick can press, and press and press, at one axis when a mouse can't (and maybe the code dont even have like a.. build up or acceleration when you drag it like crazy and reset and repeat - like in bf2 for example)? Just asking you since you've tried with both.