stop

[Sennacherib 0]

how you can criticize BIs, when you ar just hobbyist, and you can make the same thing; it's ahrd to make great 3d stuf; BIS are a great team. yeah, i know the celtic cultures. and we have lost honor.

Quote[/b] ]Do you encourage people to criticise your work?

yeah, of course, i make my poor stuff for you, not just for me.

Quote[/b] ]Remember when you are criticising and OFP modders work that they do this as a hobby. They spend hours learning to create addons for OFP for the community to enjoy. Thus should be criticised tactfully.

They spend hours learning to create addons

are you sure? where are dust, must, oil marks etc, great uvmapping, good models (not with 5680000000000000000 faces).

[-Snafu- 77]

Quote[/b] ]They spend hours learning to create addons

It doesnt take two seconds. Hell I can't even get O2 to load textures-even with my 10th try.

I'm not criticising BIS.

I have checked out your WW2 Buildings and they look well done, the textures.

I'm all for constructive criticism, I would gratefully accept constructive criticism from OFP modders on how to make my addons better.

The point still stands that BIS are pro's and the addonmakers here do it as a hobby and both should be constructively criticised.

If people want to call their mod a studio, fair enough, if they want to call themselves a 2d artist, fair enough. It's a free country. If you feel that they don't deserve those titles just ignore it, it's not doing you any harm.

[JdB 151]

More and more I get the feeling your "rant" was started by 1 or 2 negative replies because you can't take an "average" of the addonmaking skills of the community, or the cooperative side. Some people are good, some are worse, they can improve, but they will never be the same. Everyone has his own style (or variation of someone elses style).

[soul_assassin 1723]

hey I just came across this topic and felt like I had to drop my two cents. And quite frankly I am appauled. D@nte I advise you one thing. RELEASE some work first. Then we will post your work on Flashpoint.ru. Next thing you do is get a russian-english translator and read what people say there. You will have your ego ripped to shit. If you want criticism you go there. And if it doesnt make you want to stop making addons then at least it will make you think twice about releasing your "mid-quality" addons. You see most of us still realize that this is a game ---> its not real! and say what looks good and what not is just a matter of preference. If an addon works well and it is what it said on the package it came in, im happy. I dont know anything about making houses and how much effort goes into it but i do know how much sweat and tears people put in THE WHOLE PROCESS of ADDONMAKING and that includes, scripting, configing, debugging. I dont know about you, to me it sounds you got in into all of this addonmaking stuff becuz you want people to wow and wooohoo your stuff and not wow and woohoo stuff which is of lesser quality than yours. Hate to break it to ya, but the most noted teams (BAS, CSLA, FDF, Combat!, BWmod, OFrP,Lowlands etc etc) and addonmakers got into OFP modding because they LOVE doing it not becuz of the positive critisism they had. And all these true modders made their stuff for themselves, for their own pleasure, no matter how low quality. Thank them for the fact that they decided to share their work with you.

<span style='color:red'>Because in a restaraunt where you eat for free if you tell the sheff his food sucks, you'll be left without dinner. 'Nuff said.</span>

Also wanted to add. Every artist is proud of his work, especially when he does it for free for everyone to enjoy. If you take away his pride, he has nothing left.

[dm 9]

3D modelling, 2D artwork, scripting, mission design, EVERYTHING is about learning.

While I agree with the sentiment - more critical analysis should be given to the addons - I dont agree with the comparison. As has been explained, 3ds max has a whole bunch of extras to make things look nice, O2 doesnt. O2 also has to render real time.

To the issue in hand; we have a HUGE resource of incredibly tallented people, some of whom are creating some truly fantastic content, most of whom are creating some truly horrific content.

The problem lies at the feet of the "omfg thats amazing!1!!11!!!eleven!!11!!1!" posters, who are always the most vocal. Simple fact of life.

As Messiah pointed out, this community is terrible at both taking and making constructive critiscism. Its not about who is good or who is bad at addon making, its about the soft foam-padded-cell lining to all the posts around these addons. If anyone even dares to suggest areas for improvement, he/she gets shot down by a huge band of people who jump to the defence of the addon in question. And its not a good way to improove as a community. If everything is all fluffy and nice, and 99% of the comments are "omg!!11! amazing" then who is going to feel the need to improve in order to feed their ego? Equally, the opposite end of the scale, which is demonstrated outside of these forums (like Soul_assassain points out with flashpoint.ru) where anything and everything gets ripped to shreds by the internet equivalent of a pack of baying wolves, is just as bad as the fluffy bunnies posts we get here.

If more critical analysis was made, then people creating the content would be more motivated to improve. If all they have to do is shove a poor mesh with equally poor textures ingame to recieve the props they so desire. Then all they will continue to do is churn out the same crap and keep getting the praise.

Yeah, now that's just a load of crap. Turns out the only reason anybody ever does anything is to feed the ego. Because that's what we are - ego monsters.

Bash it all you want, its the gods-honest truth, and there is no hiding from it.

I'll be the first to admit my early work was crap, but because I had a good team behind me at BAS, who gave me positive critical analysis of my work, I have greatly improved over the last 4 years.

Take for example the MH-47E. The model I released into the public domain 3 1/2 years ago is, by both todays and previous standards, fucking terrible. As D@nte said, double faces, poor use of faces, bad mapping, etc. However, at the time all it got was praise, not conducive of making me want to improve the mesh (or any other part of the addon)

I have since started working on the model, and it has vastly improved. And I have improved it further thanks to the critical analysis of my peers, whom have pointed out flaws in the model. Ofcourse, a large quantity of the improvement is in technique, which was previously sorely lacking. But it does proove what you can do with some time and patience.

The following few pics show a comparison between the old mesh and the new one. Anything with coloured highlights is to show differences in polygons, since O2 doesnt have a fill with wireframe view.

Bigger

Bigger

Bigger

Bigger

Anyho.. What I'm trying to say is that we need less of the "omfg sweet dood!!11!1!!" and the "omfg thats shite11!!1" style posts. More of the thought out, backed up posts. But then this is the internet, so I've just wasted 10 mins writing this

Edit: and just to clarify, yeah, my main reason for making addons is because I love doing it. The ego monster stuff comes 2nd, and I'm willing to admit that.

Edit2: Oh, I'd also like to say

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>Hammertime!</span>

[Fab. 0]

crap... double posting (this one was ****ed up) - sorry

[Fab. 0]

i just talked to dante over msn (we're both french so we understand each other very well) and he redirected me to that thread... Lol this has got to be the funniest thing ever... between bad english (sorry dante lol) and misinterpretation, well its all very messy

what he was trying to say is :

***

basically how exasperating it can be when you work hard on your addons, and work hard till you can finally bring your work to a descent level of quality (please dont ask me to define "quality for an addon" - its different from everyone's own point of view), and you get idiotic criticism from people who dont know jack shit about a editing work

and right next to that you have people who call themselve "3d artists and so on" and so on but who are really just newbies.. but if they manage to pull a good "brand image" their newby work will get praised in contrast with the more experienced addon maker who has worked hard but gets only idiotic comments

so what he is really trying to say here is hard work isnt always recognized like it should - far from it

so when he shows screens of his own work its just to say yeah i've come from dirt to "this" and i still wont call myself a pro because "this" (links to some professional work site) is what pros can do... so people who arrogantly call themselves artists should try to spend more time working and improving their stuff instead of spending time being arrogant

****

LOL so with the bad english Dante totally sound like the arrogant one while he's really not - that is the real irony of this thread

hope that will clarify things a bit

good night to all

Fab

[sniperuk02 0]

Edit2: Oh, I'd also like to say

<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>Hammertime!</span>

that was my idea!

...except yours has a banana...well played.

The reason I do 3d and 2d art is to learn how to do it and improve over my mistakes. The one thing that has helped me learn over the years is constructive comments from team members and people on forums telling me whats wrong and needs changed and fixed. If all the comments were "omfg!! tahts l337 ubersecksy"(*coughsmileycough*) I would never improve from were I was at.

Like what has been said before you cannont compare something rendered in o2 to something rendered in 3ds max.

3ds max rendering makes even my models look good.

Example of what I mean:

This model has many flaws it has double sided faces, etc. But 3ds makes it look goodish.

3ds render

Now compare that to the o2 render:

o2 render

...not so good.

[DKM Jaguar 0]

It seems to me the reason for you posting this is that you don't like people who make poor quality addons getting more praise than you do, when you (and I'm going purely by what you say here, so don't think I'm saying this is my opinion) make good quality addons.

You have told us, the community, we don't want to learn. I don't know what you are basing this on, but it's not true for me. I don't read tutorials, I don't talk about texturing at great lengths with people who do it, I just spend time using photoshop to do whatever I think I want to do to a texture until it looks right, trying out different things until I am happy. I never use photos other than for reference, I don't use bits of other textures, I like to do it for myself so that I can say that I can.

I could show you my DKM UK pack troops compared to my first vehicle addon, the M113 FISTV, I could show you pictures of my first M113 ADATS compared to the current one, or pictures of the C-130, but to be honest I don't feel the need to justify myself to anyone.

You can trash the community that tries to create work, and you can protect BIS from hearing the views of their potential customers, but I actually think they would want to hear from them, it's called market research, and feedback. You pay money for a product, you expect a level of quality that is reflective of the price you paid, and BIS know this.

When was the last time you sent money to an addon maker, because without doing so, you can't ask them to work any more hours, draw any more textures or lift another finger towards improving their addon.

I agree with DeadMeat, people don't know how to be constructive, and those that do are mobbed. But if you really think that a topic like this is halfway near what it would take to actually get anything done about it in a sensible way, then you're mistaken.

Oh, I have "Studio" in my signature image, I hope it doesn't offend you, I can remove it if you want, despite it being a friendly mockery of some other signatures on this forum.

[Sennacherib 0]

sorry. there is a incomprehension. i don't want to make my publicity.

@Soul_assassin, sorry, if I seam pretentious. i didn't want that. of course i like the stuff made by the community.

it's really difficult to explain my thoughts in english. i thought, that i made great criticisms, because shadows, mud, dust, are essentials for a model. but it was an error. sorry

I wanted to denounce the pretentious ones, and now for you, i'm pretentious. it's really sad.

if i shown my work, it wasn't to make my publicity, it was just to show you, that this is possible to improve our job, even if mine is poor.

sorry,

I did not want to insult you. i wanted to explain to you that if BIS can make something, we can do the same thing.

i'm not an artist. maybe a missed artist, i tried to be a painter, but i'm failed, thus i know how it's hard to be an artist.

@Soul_assassin (again), i don't have secrets, i can send to you my buildings.

I am really sad to think, that you think that I am a pretentious guy.

[Fab. 0]

You have told us, the community, we don't want to learn.

nah he's actually talking about the arrogant people who call themselves "artists" before they can do something of decent quality (like adding shadows on textures and so on)

the problem is his posts make it sounds like he's accusing everyone of lazyness when in fact he's just criticizing this whole "praise lazy ass work" that eventually applies to a small part of this community in my point of view

[blackdog~ 0]

I think this most of this discussion can be summed up with my roflcopter release thread.

You've got to admit though, the addon was revolutionary, the model flawless, and the textures - though non existent - the best that could be done for a roflcopter.

[Pathy 0]

You have told us, the community, we don't want to learn.

nah he's actually talking about the arrogant people who call themselves "artists" before they can do something of decent quality (like adding shadows on textures and so on)

the problem is his posts make it sounds like he's accusing everyone of lazyness when in fact he's just criticizing this whole "praise lazy ass work" that eventually applies to a small part of this community in my point of view

I actually agree with that. I think its ridiculous that someone who can say, respray someone elses M4 texture with "camo", should call themseles a texture artist, and that someone who can pinch bits off other models (with or without permission) should call themselves a modeller.

It also annoys me how many "mods" we see that are simply a collection of other peoples individual works.

The other thing is the number of "studios" i see around now.

I wonder how many of these people whos sig says they are part of this or that addon production studio.......actually own a studio! I mean it'd be very easy for me to put in my sig "Chris' OFP addon studios", but in reality it's all made on my PC in my bedroom - though "Chris' OFP addon bedroom" doesnt really have the same glamour i guess....

[dm 9]

About the whole "studio" thing...

Dictionary.com defines the term "Studio" as

Quote[/b] ] the workroom or atelier of an artist, as a painter or sculptor.

Now technically, the act of modelling can be compared to sculpting, and texturing to painting. So your workroom, whether it be a bedroom, office or other space is your "studio"

But yeah, the proliferation of "studios" and "labs" is getting a bit tiresome. Some creativity mayhaps people?

P.S. BAS was one of, if not the first, addon team to coin the term "Studio" in our name, so

[blackdog~ 0]

Are you guys trying to tell me that

<span style='font-size:16pt;line-height:100%'>BD<span style='color:orange'>1</span> ADDON STUDIO</span>

is not an original or creative name?

Surely you are both mistaken!

[DKM Jaguar 0]

You have told us, the community, we don't want to learn.

nah he's actually talking about the arrogant people who call themselves "artists" before they can do something of decent quality (like adding shadows on textures and so on)

the problem is his posts make it sounds like he's accusing everyone of lazyness when in fact he's just criticizing this whole "praise lazy ass work" that eventually applies to a small part of this community in my point of view

In that case I completely agree with him, and I appologise for any insult from my post.

Don't listen BD! I'm sure we came up with the ideas for the style of our addon studios' names at exactly the same time and therefore they are both original.

Or not.

[Sennacherib 0]

if you see me at a pretentious guy. this is ok, for me. but for me, the word artist is for:

- picasso

- miro

- goya

- klimt

- klee

modern stuff

- pixar

-dreamworks

(unless of course its meant as a joke)

but i'm maybe a stupid guy, who don't understand the real artistic life.

to close this topic: good night.

[Pathy 0]

Are you guys trying to tell me that

<span style='font-size:16pt;line-height:100%'>BD<span style='color:orange'>1</span> ADDON STUDIO</span>

is not an original or creative name?

Surely you are both mistaken!

I think

<span style='font-size:16pt;line-height:100%'>BD<span style='color:orange'>1</span> ADDON BEDROOM</span>

Works better  

edit: Thinking about it, there is yet to be a team who has had an addon bedroom yet!

Deadmeat, BAS is different, it wasnt trying to be pretentious by calling itself a studio, whereas....

[Fab. 0]

I actually agree with that. I think its ridiculous that someone who can say, respray someone elses M4 texture with "camo", should call themseles a texture artist, and that someone who can pinch bits off other models (with or without permission) should call themselves a modeller.

exactly. and the funniest is they often get more praise than the guy who worked xxxx hours to do the whole addon before him...

which is pretty much what dante was trying to explain (especially if the guy who just paints a camo puts "2d artist" in his sig )

in the end there's nothing wrong with using bits of other mods i think, as long as you make it clear what is it you actually did and what was made from someone else

i get really annoyed when i see on the news "whathisname posted screnshots of HIS new soldiers and gets all sort of praise when in fact he just badly repainted some existing soldiers... People who modify existing stuff should make it loud and clear that they havent done everything of what you can see in the screenshots, and the news posters should align to that too... (dont get me wrong i'm not talking about everyone here, just talking about what you see in the news once in a while...)

[soul_assassin 1723]

if you see me at a pretentious guy. this is ok, for me. but for me, the word artist is for:

- picasso

- miro

- goya

- klimt

- klee

modern stuff

- pixar

-dreamworks

but i'm maybe a stupid guy, who don't understand the real artistic life.

to close this topic: good night.

unless its meant as a gentle joke

but picasso didnt draw shadows in his abstract work, didnt have mud or dust on his paintings. we dont know if it was intended or perhaps he just couldnt be fucked to learn it or was just plain talentless. You see you brought yourself to the conclusion that most people were mentioning. just because picasso didnt draw like rembrandt doesnt mean he sucked, and believe me, he still called himself an artist (oh and i think you called him that just now too). Just because some people are really talented (marfy, manfred etc.) and can draw mud and such by free hand, doesnt make it a standard. art isnt perfection or following standards....art is something that comes out of your heart......thats art. That is why we, the addonmakers, call it art. because we put our soul into the things we make. but we can argue about it for ages, art is the most subjective thing.

[Fab. 0]

but picasso didnt draw shadows in his abstract work, didnt have mud or dust on his paintings.

yeah but picasso wasnt an ofp addon maker, his art was meant to be abstract.... he also painted some very realistic portraits etc... with all the shadows (and probably mud if needed) you would expect

if picasso did a new M4 carbine for ofp i think everyone will agree that it would be pretty crappy unless he makes it realistic as he is supposed to.

so he was good in his abstract art thats what makes him an artist. whereas a good ofp addon maker is someone who can make things look rather realistic rather than disproportionate abstract stuff (unless its meant to like picasso) - which in ofp would be addons not made from blueprints or good reference... ok sometimes blueprints are not available but in well documented cases there is no excuse..

so the point is you see a lot of somewhat "abstract" work by people who call themselves artists when their work is supposed to be realistic...

its fine if you cant paint shadows and mud, but why call urself an artist when you cant do something that easy to learn... its a bit pretencious i think...

[chipper 0]

wowww can we just delete this retarded thread.

[adumb 0]

I like pie.

[Silent N Deadly 0]

Have some Peace Pie!

But in seriousness, I do agree with some of the stuff.

[crashdome 1]

Whose ass did this thread spew out of?

I only read pages 1, 2 and 5 and I can already tell its just amatuers pissing on posers.

What a waste of space.

Quote[/b] ]About the whole "studio" thing...

Dictionary.com defines the term "Studio" as

Quote

the workroom or atelier of an artist, as a painter or sculptor.

Now technically, the act of modelling can be compared to sculpting, and texturing to painting. So your workroom, whether it be a bedroom, office or other space is your "studio"

But yeah, the proliferation of "studios" and "labs" is getting a bit tiresome. Some creativity mayhaps people?

P.S. BAS was one of, if not the first, addon team to coin the term "Studio" in our name, so... BLAH BLAH BLAH

Sorry but you're all wrong. "Studio" is a term originally coined to groups of developers that were employed by movie publishers to produce interactive content usually to coinside with a movie or show release (originally full motion video and later 3D content). Hence all the "XYZ Studios" and "XYZ Interactive" names. Everything other than that has merely been names coined to market themselves in the gaming industry solely to compete yet have no affiliation with any major movie publisher (i.e. BIS - although they do motion capture they are not affiliated with a publisher like MGM or such).

Regardless, none of this applies to anyone in this community and is no more than me developing scripts and calling it "CrashDome Enterprises". It's not an enterprise and certainly not worth a corporate name. It would only be to make me feel good or to needlessly impress people...

like the purpose of this whole thread