No T-80UM / T-90 in ArmA? is that smart?

[DVD 0]

It dont look very smart for the multiplayer part, that east has no heavy tanks.

I mean i dont need T-80UM or T-90 for the campain.

But for multiplayer wars is a good balance needed.

It makes no sence if one side is super heavy equipped (West with M1A1, Harrier "jump jet" and AH-1W Super Cobra) and east has what? T-72?

Is that a joke?

[NeMeSiS 11]

It dont look very smart for the multiplayer part, that east has no heavy tanks.

I mean i dont need T-80UM or T-90 for the campain.

But for multiplayer wars is a good balance needed.

It makes no sence if one side is super heavy equipped (West with M1A1, Harrier "jump jet" and AH-1W Super Cobra) and east has what? T-72?

Is that a joke?

Alot of T-72s, numbers can balance the whole thing out. Balance is up to the mission editor instead of the game which is good IMO, real wars arent balanced either

[sniperandy 0]

Shilka and BTR-T should take care of that I guess. And don't forget that we can make whatever we want for ArmA...

[DVD 0]

Dude i hear that every time.

But you can't balance gold with plastic.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

I'll miss an official T80/T90. But oh well, what can you do?

[NeMeSiS 11]

Dude i hear that every time.

But you can't balance gold with plastic.

That depends on the amount of plastic

Seriously, its a game, not real life, there are different standards here and you dont need as many T-72s as in real life to take on an M1a1.

And east still has air-support, artillary, mines, AT weapons and other stuff to get rid of those nasty tanks

[Second 0]

Blah! They (communists) might have Spike MR missiles to blast that poor M1A1 to other realm, or panzerfaust3 or Apilas launchers. M1 is deadmeat againts all of these if they are used correctly... In original OFP there was BMP1 vs. M113, or Soviets had Shilkas as US hadn't single Selfpropelled antiairgraftguns. I liked the balance, one was superiour in something and other was superiour in something else. That was good balance of things.

Quote[/b] ]Dude i hear that every time.

But you can't balance gold with plastic.

In certain terrain M1A1 becomes plastic and inf-AT is gold... And has there been statement that ArmA's M1A1 would be HA version? If not then it's very much destroyable peace of plastic

[Scrub 0]

Yes you can... just use LOTS of plastic!  

Just like the North is going to use.

19.32 Specific Gravity of gold

1.41 Specific Gravity of Delrin (an engineering polymer)

[Zander 0]

kornet atgm should be enough

[guerilla -MCY- 0]

i think its sad to not have those tanks, because as soon as we use addons in clanwar, all problems are starting like cheats, missing addons etc. should'nt be a big work to add at least a T80

[Average Joe 0]

You know whats not smart? thinking its the end of the world because these tanks arent included. Dude you only need to think about what the community will do with this game once its released...

[DVD 0]

@[CAVE]guerilla

You are damn right.

BTW:

OFP balance...

East / West

- - - / M113

BMP1 / M60

BMP2 / M2A2

Shilka / Vulcan

3*T-72 or 2*T80 / M1A1

Mi24 or KA50 / AH1 or Ah64

SU25 / A-10

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Hmm maybe BIS will create a T80/T90 addon later on. Like they did with the Bradley, BRDM etc for OFP...

[benreeper 0]

This is not BF2! Like was said, the mission-maker balances the game. Artificial balancing is STUPID and I hate it. In BF1942, Japan didn't even use their own weapons for crying' out loud! I was turned completely off by the game after that.

It also seems that armor value is scriptable now so there is the potential to have missions with "artificial balancing" if you like that kind of game. Such as:

1 T72 vs 1 M1A1 as opposed to 3 T72's vs 1 M1A1.

--Ben

[Second 0]

@[CAVE]guerilla

You are damn right.

BTW:

OFP balance...

East / West

- - - / M113

BMP1 / M60

BMP2 / M2A2

Shilka / Vulcan

3*T-72 or 2*T80 / M1A1

Mi24 or KA50 / AH1 or Ah64

SU25 / A-10

Nope! i've played it before these M2A2, Vulcan and other addons were released (look at F.Point manual and you get the picture) ... Oh those good old days when Soviet mech inf. was feared for it's BMP 1s. And A-10 and Shilka were one of it's kind.

M60 was/is a counterpart for T-72 BTW

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Artificial balancing is STUPID and I hate it.

--Ben

You are so right!

MfG Lee

[DVD 0]

And i like it, because i play cti and its boring to play against publics in crap tanks.

And it makes clan matches even more interresting, if both side have a fair chance.

You may have your reasons for your coop missions, to keep this 1:3 balance, but this is nothing for me.

[Ukraineboy 0]

I agree with the above sentiment of artificial balance...it is stupid.

I just hope this thread doesn't become another East vs West flame war like usually happens.

Just remember one thing. The 125mm 2A46M gun on the T-72 can destroy an M1 Abrams. In the hands of a good crew, T-72s can go toe to toe with Abrams tanks. You just have to use it right.

[wamingo 1]

You were turned off by bf1942, because the japs used the wrong weapons? Sorry, but out of all the reasons one can have to dislike bf1942 that has to be one of the more absurd ones

It's kind of a problem that a player with an m1a1 needs only 3 units to man it while opposing forces needs 6-9... Possible to balance through mission design? Not without some serious scripting voodoo... Good luck I say. Basicly you could never have a player with 3 or more abrams. Maybe not even more than 1. And then on top of that they couldn't fill up all of the remaining unit slots either... So what's this "artificial balance" you be talking about again?

Anyway, we won't need artificial balance if we can have a heavier battletank, do we.

[Spyder001 1]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

[Ukraineboy 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

The M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle because it faced tanks from 1945 with inferior ammunition, most of the ammunition the Iraqi tanks used had steel penetrators and half-charges of propellant! It has never faced a well trained crew in a tank battle, and many Iraqi tanks were taken out by air superiority and because of better training. The 125mm gun on the T-72 is just as powerful as it's 120mm counterpart, there's no argument about that. And finally, the 2miles distance isnt a great feat. The 125mm 2A46M can reach that, and even greater when it uses a barrel fired ATGM...Tanks are only tools, the main thing is the training and tactics of a crew, and other supporting elements. There is no such thing as a 1v1 battle. Even moreso with the T-72 as it was designed specifically to be a mass-produced second line tank to fill production gaps. The M1 Abrams is a great, robust modern tank, but it isn't a God amongst tanks. War isnt a video game where it will be a 1v1 battle, there are huge number of other elements.

Also, enough of this "the tank is superior to all other tanks" talk like that will only create stupid dick waving arguments.

edit: Why am I even arguing with you? Aren't you that pompous kid who thinks he is a genius about military tactics?

[sanctuary 19]

I am not really caring about balance at all, but i will miss a lot the T80 , my favorite OFP BIS tank .

[aus_twisted 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

You need a reality check, any modern tank can be destroyed. Maybe you need to go back into the "game" and be that noob like the post above.

Anyway I agree East will deffinately have a disadvantage, you cant simply have 3 T72 vs 1 M1A1 in MP V's games (easy to setup in single player or coop's but not in V's games like CTI, DM or CTF etc) usualy it comes down to 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 battles which a T72 has little chance of beating a M1A1 with the way the current armor system works in OFP which I think will be similar in ArmA.

West will be the favourite side to pick in MP games, especially CTI's. The easiest way to fix that would be to make a small seperate config of the T72 and have similar values of the M1A1 with a texture color and name change so players can spot the difference until someone releases a T80 addon for AmrA.

[Ukraineboy 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

You need a reality check, any modern tank can be destroyed. Maybe you need to go back into the "game" and be that noob like the post above.

Anyway I agree East will deffinately have a disadvantage, you cant simply have 3 T72 vs 1 M1A1 in MP V's games (easy to setup in single player or coop's but not in V's games like CTI, DM or CTF etc) usualy it comes down to 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 battles which a T72 has little chance of beating a M1A1 with the way the current armor system works in OFP which I think will be similar in ArmA.

West will be the favourite side to pick in MP games, especially CTI's. The easiest way to fix that would be to make a small seperate config of the T72 and have similar values of the M1A1 with a texture color and name change so players can spot the difference until someone releases a T80 addon for AmrA.

Oh there will be a T-80 addon quickly. The Russian community, and community that likes to do russian weapons is large enough that it can actually galvanize to make some nice Russian weaponry.

[InqWiper 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

I thought there was a T72 that shot a HEAT in the side of the turret of an Abrams in Iraq or something and the crew had to bail out because the tank was filled with smoke but I might be wrong. I should trust you more than TV. IIRC it was a tank left behind to round up some POW when a dug in T72 got a perfect target on the Abrams from the side. They said that the routine was changed after that so the tanks arent used as stupid POW wagons or something similar to that

You have to be kidding me saying the M1A1 is superior. The M1A1 isnt even used anymore is it? Its the M1A2 SEP or something like that now I think. The Abrams is not superior to other western tanks. If you watch documentaries and stuff it will come down to Abrams, Challenger 2 or Leopard 2. I have no clue what would make the Abrams so superiour. The Leopard 2 looks like it has more armour on the front than the Abrams and when it comes to accuracy its pretty much the same on all of the modern tanks. AFAIK the swedish version of the Leopard 2 (strv 122) has a superior command and control system. The Leopart 2A6 has a gun better suitet for range (and probably not as well suited for urban enviroments) than the Leo 2A5. Since sweden isnt a flat desert I think the strv122 might be better suited here than leo 2a6.

Here it says that the swedish version of the leopard 2 is the most advanced one. Im not saying that makes it the best.

Anyway if you are a fool (which alot of people are   ) you can use eventhandlers to make the T72 as powerful as a M1A2 if you want.