No T-80UM / T-90 in ArmA? is that smart?

[Ukraineboy 0]

Ugh christ, I shouldn't have even mentioned the T-72's gun. I knew this would turn into a flame war. Okay everyone lets just drop this M1 Abrams vs T-72 argument please...Just, enough.

[InqWiper 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

You need a reality check, any modern tank can be destroyed. Maybe you need to go back into the "game" and be that noob like the post above.

Anyway I agree East will deffinately have a disadvantage, you cant simply have 3 T72 vs 1 M1A1 in MP V's games (easy to setup in single player or coop's but not in V's games like CTI, DM or CTF etc) usualy it comes down to 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 battles which a T72 has little chance of beating a M1A1 with the way the current armor system works in OFP which I think will be similar in ArmA.

West will be the favourite side to pick in MP games, especially CTI's. The easiest way to fix that would be to make a small seperate config of the T72 and have similar values of the M1A1 with a texture color and name change so players can spot the difference until someone releases a T80 addon for AmrA.

Oh there will be a T-80 addon quickly. The Russian community, and community that likes to do russian weapons is large enough that it can actually galvanize to make some nice Russian weaponry.

Yeah or you can just sit down 30 minuts and convert all addons from OFP to ArmA since AFAIK they will be compatible.

[Ukraineboy 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

You need a reality check, any modern tank can be destroyed. Maybe you need to go back into the "game" and be that noob like the post above.

Anyway I agree East will deffinately have a disadvantage, you cant simply have 3 T72 vs 1 M1A1 in MP V's games (easy to setup in single player or coop's but not in V's games like CTI, DM or CTF etc) usualy it comes down to 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 battles which a T72 has little chance of beating a M1A1 with the way the current armor system works in OFP which I think will be similar in ArmA.

West will be the favourite side to pick in MP games, especially CTI's. The easiest way to fix that would be to make a small seperate config of the T72 and have similar values of the M1A1 with a texture color and name change so players can spot the difference until someone releases a T80 addon for AmrA.

Oh there will be a T-80 addon quickly. The Russian community, and community that likes to do russian weapons is large enough that it can actually galvanize to make some nice Russian weaponry.

Yeah or you can just sit down 30 minuts and convert all addons from OFP to ArmA since AFAIK they will be compatible.

True, but I definately wont be doing that with the default OFP tanks

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Sorry, but this balanced Clanwar stuff is bullsh..

I just managed to outmaneuver the UBER-ULTRA-Best Tank in the world, the M1A2SEP(on a search & and destroy mission) by Inquisitor and friends with a simpel T-72 from Orcs.

Oh, and I didn't had any air support by choppers or AT-Infantry Squads or APC's with ATGM's...

It's not only the "put two tanks on desert island and look which one survives."

During our CTI "coop" rounds my M1A2SEP has been killed by:

- Tanks(yes, T-72s also)

- APC's with ATGM's

- AT Infantrie with RPG launcher

- Helicopters

- and all above together

You can also USE terrain to stay alive. And all the other tactics used by atank commander..

MfG Lee

[GBee 0]

But you can't balance gold with plastic.

Err yes you can ...

[DVD 0]

@[CAVE]guerilla

You are damn right.

BTW:

OFP balance...

East / West

- - - / M113

BMP1 / M60

BMP2 / M2A2

Shilka / Vulcan

3*T-72 or 2*T80 / M1A1

Mi24 or KA50 / AH1 or Ah64

SU25 / A-10

Nope! i've played it before these M2A2, Vulcan and other addons were released (look at F.Point manual and you get the picture) ... Oh those good old days when Soviet mech inf. was feared for it's BMP 1s. And A-10 and Shilka were one of it's kind.

M60 was/is a counterpart for T-72 BTW

Wooohaa you still play multiplayer with 1.0, cool!! Old skool!! Yeahh .. How much server have 1.0? i cant see one...

However, if people dont like a good balance, they dont need to take a T80UM or T90 in their missions, its a free world.

But if a good balance is needed (like in CTI) east neededs better tanks, than a downgraded version of a T-64.

If i see how much has changed in ArmA since E3. There shouldn't be a problem for BIS to create a better tank, even if they dont need it for the story.

Its needed for MP.

[NeMeSiS 11]

But if a good balance is needed (like in CTI) east neededs better tanks, than a downgraded version of a T-64.

Or east needs cheaper tanks so they can produce more (Or cheaper artillery/AT-weapons/flying stuff that can shoot tanks, you get the point)

[aus_twisted 0]

Sorry, but this balanced Clanwar stuff is bullsh..

I just managed to outmaneuver the UBER-ULTRA-Best Tank in the world, the M1A2SEP(on a search & and destroy mission) by Inquisitor and friends with a simpel T-72 from Orcs.

[imghttp://lee.plankton.ch/T72vsM1A2SEP.jpg[/img]

Oh, and I didn't had any air support by choppers or AT-Infantry Squads or APC's with ATGM's...

It's not only the "put two tanks on desert island and look which one survives."

During our CTI "coop" rounds my M1A2SEP has been killed by:

- Tanks(yes, T-72s also)

- APC's with ATGM's

- AT Infantrie with RPG launcher

- Helicopters

- and all above together

You can also USE terrain to stay alive. And all the other tactics used by atank commander..

MfG Lee

Thats pretty pointless since Coop is against the AI, the topic is more about MP v's games where I'm sure you would of had problems if a good player was in the M1A2.

[norsu 180]

An upgraded version of T-72 with ERA and other modern stuff would have been a nice balance and addition. Making one should be pretty easy and there's still lots of development time left .

[DVD 0]

Well the skill of a player should make the difference in a MP game, nothing other.

BTW:..

A Sopwith Camel vs. a Harrier?. east sucks ....

http://www.pcgames.de/screenshots/original/1156442371649.jpg

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Thats pretty pointless since Coop is against the AI, the topic is more about MP v's games where I'm sure you would of had problems if a good player was in the M1A2.

So you need a M1A2 to be a good player?

MfG Lee

[aus_twisted 0]

Thats pretty pointless since Coop is against the AI, the topic is more about MP v's games where I'm sure you would of had problems if a good player was in the M1A2.

So you need a M1A2 to be a good player?

MfG Lee

LOL, I never stated that. AI tanks are easy to beat is what I'm stating, sometimes they can be good at long range.

[dmakatra 1]

I don't see the problem. OFP wasn't balanced, and we never had this problem in OFP. BIS T80 v BIS M1A1? Come on, the T80 never stood a chance there. Or what about the classic BMP v M113?

It's a realistic game, and you can't find two single tanks that have the same attributes so we can have one of each on each side. And some have suggested similar values but different models - what's the fun in that? It's like playing WarCraft 2 all over again.

If balance is so important (read: the mission designer is crap) simply use Abrams v Abrams, or BMP v BMP in the mission. You'll notice if it's friendly or not in the radar anyhow. Those of you that have suggested that the game will have to be balanced aren't that much for realism anyhow, so why care that you are fighting your 'own' models?

Sorry if I made myself unclear, am tired.

[Shadow NX 1]

I didnt read the whole thread but i formyself arent pleased that the commies only get T72s... like someoen said they should at least get a upgraded b version with a full era package.

Not much extra work and it would add the balance some here want.

I have a feelign multiplayer will be worser than back then where you always had to use tactics to beat the M1 with the T80.

Well at least we can try to port our T80s for ArmA if theres intrest

[Zerg 0]

Sorry, but this balanced Clanwar stuff is bullsh..

I just managed to outmaneuver the UBER-ULTRA-Best Tank in the world, the M1A2SEP(on a search & and destroy mission) by Inquisitor and friends with a simpel T-72 from Orcs.

Oh, and I didn't had any air support by choppers or AT-Infantry Squads or APC's with ATGM's...

It's not only the "put two tanks on desert island and look which one survives."

During our CTI "coop" rounds my M1A2SEP has been killed by:

- Tanks(yes, T-72s also)

- APC's with ATGM's

- AT Infantrie with RPG launcher

- Helicopters

- and all above together

You can also USE terrain to stay alive. And all the other tactics used by atank commander..

MfG Lee

Ah what we have here is a person telling us about team matches based on his experiences in playing against AI.

___

As for the rest the price can balance only so much. While a T-72 can be made to cost only 1/3 of an M1, your enemy can drive one M1 all by himself while you can`t drive 3 T-72s simultaneously and AI controlled ones don`t have an effect against most players in M1. (And you can`t lower T-72 price into infinity or you start to unbalance the price in comparison to light armor and you cant lower light armor prices not to unbalance infantry prices and you can`t push infantry prices down or they become free of charge... Plus you can`t increase the M1 cost into infinity, as that pushes the price of helicopters into the sky meaning they become near absent from games...)

I guess once ArmA comes out a T-90 addon will be in great demand. (And the remarks about artifical balance are uncalled for as a T-90 is stil a very different (in capabilities) machine from an M1 not to mention it is an acctuall existing Russian-made weapon.)

[AussieForce 0]

As was said earlier if you need a certain weapon to play like a pro then then that should prove that the side with better weapons win the battle......WRONG!, if that were the case then i should be be winning all the wars i have on BF2 CSS ect becuase i allways go on the side of America or CT(America), but the plain and simply truth is if you want to win you should practice with all sorts of weapons so you can accurate and deadly with them.If some one wants to complain about not having a weapon for blind people then that really says something about there skill level.

[lee_h._oswald 0]

Ah what we have here is a person telling us about team matches based on his experiences in playing against AI.  

No, I'm telling you, that you can beat an enemy which has better armor, better weapons, better "radar" better whatever if you are not playing like an idiot.

If balanced units are so much NEEDED for player vs player matches, then why playing a 'realistic' game like ofp/arma?

It's very unrealistic to see 2 "nations" on a battlefield with ~balanced~ units. It's ridiculously.

MfG Lee

[Heatseeker 0]

I think there should be a more powerfull NS tank since the game will have larger MP portion than OPFR.

We can cut with the "realism" stuff already, OPFR was never a realistic armor simulator and Arma wont be one either.

That "tactics" and skill talk is bull, if one tank reloads faster and can take more hits (3) it will be very unbalanced if the players have an equal amount of experience. A T80 should be present for MP atleast, even if it doesnt fit with SP.

The "east" side of Armed Assault is looking very uninteresting to me .

We have seen M4's with silencers, aimdots and acog's and we have seen simple AK74's.

We have seen west soldiers in digital cammo and NS soldiers with shovels and helms that stand out 400M away.

I hope they dont make NS army so crappy that nobody will want to play with it, the NS soldiers already look.. very old .

The ..the comunity will make it! aproach is not a good one imo, im sure that great things will come (with time) but im looking forward to play Arma with optimised, bug free and professional content for a while. People post like good addons are put together in 5 minuts .

[VISTREL 0]

No T-80s - it would suck bigtime, especially, in multiplayer.

I'll tell ya why. Most of servers with higher number of players don't keep maps with addons. It means that majority of online games would involve games without addons/mods, thus, no T-80s or something to counter the M1.

Shilkas and BMPs don't work too well against tanks with huge armor.

[sanctuary 19]

Quote[/b] ] We have seen M4's with silencers, aimdots and acog's and we have seen simple AK74's.

We have seen west soldiers in digital cammo and NS soldiers with shovels and helms that stand out 400M away.

I hope they dont make NS army so crappy that nobody will want to play with it, the NS soldiers already look.. very old

Exactly my thoughts, even if unused in the campaign for "NS being too poor to get modern russian stuffs" reasons , i hope the NS side will have access, at least for mission making, to some modern russian equipment to offer a bit more than "modern weapons and vehicles vs eighties tanks and weapons" scenarios.

Some modern russian equipment with the same BIS quality we have seen so far in the screenshots so far would be really great.

[Bouben 3]

I don't see the problem. OFP wasn't balanced, and we never had this problem in OFP. BIS T80 v BIS M1A1? Come on, the T80 never stood a chance there. Or what about the classic BMP v M113?

It's a realistic game, and you can't find two single tanks that have the same attributes so we can have one of each on each side. And some have suggested similar values but different models - what's the fun in that? It's like playing WarCraft 2 all over again.

If balance is so important (read: the mission designer is crap) simply use Abrams v Abrams, or BMP v BMP in the mission. You'll notice if it's friendly or not in the radar anyhow. Those of you that have suggested that the game will have to be balanced aren't that much for realism anyhow, so why care that you are fighting your 'own' models?

Sorry if I made myself unclear, am tired.

yep, you got it

[VISTREL 0]

I don't see the problem. OFP wasn't balanced, and we never had this problem in OFP. BIS T80 v BIS M1A1? Come on, the T80 never stood a chance there.

Yes, it stood...did you even play the multiplayer ?

There is a big difference between T80 vs M1 and BMP vs M1.

If T-80 could land the first shot and move somewhere then M1 and T80 became balanced. One of players from my clan is really good in tank. M1 is not a problem to bust when in T80 for him.

Now BMP or Shilka or T72 vs M1 is a joke. Too slow reload(T-72) or damage (Shilka) to counter M1. BMP can take M1 out but if M1 finds the BMP, it would take one shot for M1 to kill the BMP.

[norsu 180]

Exactly my thoughts, even if unused in the campaign for "NS being too poor to get modern russian stuffs" reasons , i hope the NS side will have access, at least for mission making, to some modern russian equipment to offer a bit more than "modern weapons and vehicles vs eighties tanks and weapons" scenarios.

Some modern russian equipment with the same BIS quality we have seen so far in the screenshots so far would be really great.

The latest video shows us Ka-50. That's pretty rare and modern unit so perhaps there will be another surprises .

[sanctuary 19]

I sure hope so the NS side didn't wasted all their few money to buy this single Ka50, leaving them with only some T72 and AK74 without ammo

[Lord Archer 0]

Ha, the M1A1 has never been knocked out in battle. The tank is superior to all other tanks. It can withstand direct hit from other M1A1s, even if it's with a sabot round. It can take hits from the rear by an M1A1, which would knock it out but not explode. It can fire going max speed with pinpoint accuracy. It doesn't matter what tank you have or even how many, the M1A1 can engage at a distance of 2 miles. They only way to kill it, because its a game, is if some n00b is driving around and you get behind him.

They said the Titanic was unsinkable...