What ArmAs needs for custom content management?!

[Dwarden 1124]

As ArmAs is still WIP and there is 25% to go +- some %  i think this is major point to be discussed prior release. So everyone is welcome to post Your suggestions and opinions.

With all the effort to overhaul and improve OFP/OFPR/OFPE/VBS1 into ArmedAssault there is little to no information about how ArmAs handle custom made content.

btw. this topic is not about unrealistic demands for e.g. DX10 visuals ...

Modding was one of main reasons OFP/OFPR is still alive but there was no ingame manager or BIS tool to handle it. And with tons of addons it turns into pain in ass.

Also if we ignore OFP mission downloading there was no inbuilt custom content downloader. I know You can say someone made one but that is last option as official solution helps game more.

Any mistake or lack in that area can ruin ArmAs success as “usual gamers market†is bit more demanding that years ago.

I think the game content system should contain following features and handle mentioned problems:

1. Simplify the way how user obtain content from server by high quality downloader, filename system and content manager:

- cache system for downloader (user option to define if content downloaded from server is permanent or temporary)

- automatic on background downloading "AFTER" joining server's chat room (stare on screen to see Download status = 0.5% while joining server is quite depressing)

- download system must allow pause&resume , must be able handle download Interrupts&resume (connectivity problems)

and be robust to prevent damaged chunks or complete files (ideal to use Bittorrent style)

- on-the-fly compression to preserve bandwidth is supported (automatic use of bzip (like Source engine) or 7-zip)

and of course automatic extraction after (but this can be overcome by some standard addon file format see below)

- multiple content download sources (user can define) and engine chooses fastest or user proffered one (ie at server same LAN/WAN or within ISP network, same country etc)

- ingame browser should show complete size (KB//MB) of custom content needed to download .

Plus there should be some sort of extended query to show all custom content used (not just MOD package names like now).

* suggestion to improve query protocol and ingame browser http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....159;hl=

- same as above but for servers as forward option for content uploads to players (admin defined )

* server related suggestions here http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....868;hl=

- system should contain some intelligent priority solution to download “gameplay†critical files first

and then e.g. on background (option-able of course) less important stuff like server/clan logos, custom faces, server sounds, music and so on ….

- Priority loading and background transfers be perfected by content itself

(let say if I spawn in city at north side of custom island I don’t need download models/textures somewhere 20km to south and download it on background while I already play)

but this depends on how game handle content sorting, loading and etc. * more like Game2 feature

- use hashes for filenames to prevent issues with different files same name (ie two different textures from different mods) in way like filename_hash.extension

* this is used already in Unreal Engine 2.x cache, yet UE is unable to choose correct file when engine request it

(so if You have two maps with same name saved in cache with hash name or one in cache and one in normal map dir = error)

to overcome this problem game editing/SDK tools need to save file hash together with all filenames in addon that way unlimited amount of same named files can exist

and engine always request correct one but i guess this is way too complicated to be in ArmAs so again more like Game2 feature

2. Official custom content managing tool should be standalone executable

(running in classic windows UI) rather than part of ingame GUI (as that mean issues with fonts, resolutions, sizes, problems with rows and columns etc) ...

(as example I use Oblivion Mod Manager http://timeslip.chorrol.com/ but there are similar 3rd party tools for other games like UT2004 etc.)

but this tool should be BIS developed or over-watched, distributed with game since release

in worst case bit later as official download from BIS page ...

- ability to install / enable / disable / add (download) / update (details below) / remove any of installed custom content

- ability to detect addon errors or cross-addon collisions and show optimal way how handle them

3. there is need for enhanced standardizing format of addons packages

(here i mention again Oblivion Mod Manager and it's omod format http://timeslip.chorrol.com/omod_format.txt

and as another example Unreal Engine .umod format which allow fast multi-platform and multi-language addon install)

yes I’m aware of AddonsAtEase but this is not just for some exclusive top mods

but for all or most of custom made content …

- It allows easy installation on any platform

- it contains information about author, some screenshot, readme etc

- keeps file naming scheme ~ OFPEC TAG (but this can be overcome by content hash2filename (filename_hash.extension) too)

- option-able compression allowed

- possible automatic addon updates from author provided location and/or user defined trusted sources

- this system provide anticheat friendly solution (easy to configure to work with)

* anticheats were discussed here http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....505;hl=

and here http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin....247;hl=

** - for hashing i guess SHA-1 will be best as it goes hand in hand with bittorrent verification of downloaded content ...

yet someone can complain about SHA-1 or MD5 being "too demanding and slow" so feel free offer something more usable ...

In summary i hope this will be really considered before it’s too late when custom content “chaos†unleash after ArmAs release  …  

[Average Joe 0]

Very nice dude, you got alot of great points in there!

[Commando84 0]

yeah totally agree with ya on the points there

[Ukraineboy 0]

I hate to be a backseat moderator, but...

"Please do not post suggestion/request/demand regarding Armed Assault."

It says that in the sticky.

[Friedchiken 0]

Its seems that BIS has already experimented with various ways of managing addons, from the implementation of "mod folders" to their "addons at ease" project.

Hopefully they will later experiment with other methods of organization sometime after the development is done.

I personally use the addon manager developed by Kegetys.

[450R 1]

I hate to be a backseat moderator, but...

"Please do not post suggestion/request/demand regarding Armed Assault."

It says that in the sticky.

This is one of the most important additions BIS could make to Armed Assault. Dwarden put a lot of thought and effort into his post ... it's hardly the normal suggestion thread. I think it deserves to stay open so these ideas can be fleshed out by the community that would be benefiting most from it ... the same community that's been supporting OFP since day one and kept it going to this day.

[TheRocket 0]

Really nice ideas... But i wouldnt want to delay ArmA.

If there would be a global ingame chat(hosted by BIS/publisher servers) you can do addonsharing in there, instead of the game servers. For example, joining a game server, you get an error "Missing addons blablabla.pbo <-- this one get automated queued and the player can select to download it right away, this will make him disconnect so the server wont get too loaded... But great ideas

[the unknown 0]

How about this silly idea lets keep it like its now.

The Unknown

[Ukraineboy 0]

This is one of the most important additions BIS could make to Armed Assault.

Wrong. This is one of the most important additions you think BIS could make to Armed Assault. Not everyone thinks that. I don't think that, I couldnt careless.

[Dwarden 1124]

This is one of the most important additions BIS could make to Armed Assault.

Wrong. This is one of the most important additions you think BIS could make to Armed Assault. Not everyone thinks that. I don't think that, I couldnt careless.

Even negative opinion is still opinion. I can only wish others will be bit more constructive ...

btw. i can also simple say i don't care as i already preordered Armed Assault but i care as i don't want another game w/o players ...

[blackjack-VS- 0]

i agree with majority of the ideas presented here. nice post btw...

i hope that,by this time, things at BIS are already planed and almost done, relating to arma final features. so most things are finally done. even so, many of this SUGESTIONS could be usefull in the future. who knows?

just want to give my 2 cents about 1 small thing.

as the day we all expected (aa release) is getting closer, the number of "parachuters" posters is increasing. we all see the coutless posts that placebo and moderator team have to close (99% of the times with all justice), majority of them by stupid people demanding ALL the kind of features, or asking questions that were asked a zilion times,etc. i dont think this post has that kind of silly questions or ideas, so i dont get the point to say what some pleople said to Dwarden.

so if u have enough ofp hours + some usefull SUGESTIONS why not share them?

take care! now i'll come back patiently to my "waiting arma" corner..

[Friedchiken 0]

I think an addition like this would work great as an external program.

In that way, BIS can develop this program long after AA is finished.

[450R 1]

This is one of the most important additions BIS could make to Armed Assault.

Wrong. This is one of the most important additions you think BIS could make to Armed Assault. Not everyone thinks that. I don't think that, I couldnt careless.

Yep, it's my opinion. If you noticed, I never insisted or requested that BIS implement his idea ... just that the topic be left open so we can discuss the potential for improvements in this area. If BIS chooses not to do anything then at least we can use the ideas brought up in this thread to design a 3rd party solution for everyone's benefit.

[armandobronca 0]

This is a must have.

[.kju 3241]

would be a major step forward.

[sirex 0]

yea, it would definatly give ArmA an edge.

[lwlooz 0]

I seem to remember that this was already discussed and the option I liked best was this:

Whenever you click on a server,it like shows you what addons they run and you need and which you dont have (with a little description for each addon) and then you can decide what you want to download or not.Possibly even select the mirror from where you want to download it. And most important of all,be still able to group addons together.So that you could have different setups of what addons to load.I.e Setup1 includes Mod1 and Addons A,B and E. Setup2 includes Mod2 and Addons C,D and F.

That combined with dynamic loading/unloading of Addons ingame would pretty much do the job of addons handling for me,without some sneaky background processes running which i neither can control or observe.

[Dwarden 1124]

way to link together various downloaded content into user defined groups isn't bad idea too and

if combined with let say group info on server it can simplify user's life

yet You still need well done way how get content and file format

that background stuff was meant for ingame downloading (let say You download all what You need to get into game and play, but why wait another 10 minutes before finishing download of less important music, clan logos, faces etc ? it can be slowly downloaded at some cap speed e.g. 5kB/s as You defined in options)