Adjustable iron sights?

[galbaldy 0]

In the pursuit of realism and simulation, it is necessary to be able to zero in your sights for different ranges. This could also apply to sniper rifles, with their range and windage knobs.

What do you guys think?

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

It works nicely on World War II Online.

You can dial the M16A2 from 300 meters to 800, in increments of 100, if I remember correctly. Beyond 300 meters is only supposed to be for full-squad suppression fire(i.e., your whole squad is spamming lead at targets at that range), if I remember correctly.

[funnyguy1 0]

Mmmm, snipers with adjustable scopes and spotters...

That would be cool. But well, It`s not the right place to suggest things...

[brataccas 0]

ofp has this already? VBS has it, it was scripted and worked very well

[xela89 0]

Yes, the m21 for example

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> opticsZoomMin=0.04;

opticsZoomMax=0.12;

distanceZoomMin=400;

distanceZoomMax=80;

with minimum zoom, it's zeroed at 80m, with maximum at 400m

[galbaldy 0]

Yes, the m21 for example

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE"> opticsZoomMin=0.04;

opticsZoomMax=0.12;

distanceZoomMin=400;

distanceZoomMax=80;

with minimum zoom, it's zeroed at 80m, with maximum at 400m

I'm not talking about zoom now am I?

[Llauma 0]

The zoom isn't mainly for you to see your target better but for you to zero the aim at the distance which your target is at.

Making the iron sights adjustable shouldn't be hard. Adjusting the aim to compensate for the wind is pointless as the bullets wont be affected by the wind.

[Blake 0]

WW2 online method of adjusting sights would be great and simple enough. Especially with guns which shoot on high trajectories like 7.62x39mm AK-47 it's important to set the sights right.

I remember bullet drop being something like 24cm on 7.62x39mm at 150 meters and over 40cm at 300 meters.

So if you'd aim somebody in the head at 150m with sights set on 300m your bullet would fly over him. And vice versa, you'd hit his torso or leg at 300m if you'd aim with incorrect 150m setting. Needless to say bullet drop at ranges above 300m is extremely big. So I think it would be really necessary to cover the ballistics in AA some way if they have not already done so. Wind is a factor too, at 300m with sidewind blowing hard 10m/s, 7.62x39 bullet would drift left or right a whopping 110cm. But granted that does not have to be modelled, I'd be happy with sights and bullet drop.

SMG's firing pistol ammo which have much more drastic bullet drop and vulnerability to wind. High-velocity 5.56mm or 5.45mm bullets of M16 and AK74 fire from pretty flat trajectories and bullet drop is not as significant at ca.300 meters, maybe around 10cm? I'd figure lighter bullets like 5.56 are somewhat more vulnerable to wind though but on the other hand they fly around 1000m/s...somebody could drag out some ballistics data.

Overall I just suspect it's too late to put these things to AA if they are not already implemented.

[granQ 293]

havnt tried WW II Online so much, maybe good to have the function but its like screaming for a feature that probaly wont be used much?

I only expericend Fn-FNC irl, but we just did a manual adjustment..

if target far away, aim higher, if closer, aim lower.. instead of changing the sight all the time.

i rather want wind (really affects gameplay) then sight..

[rundll.exe 12]

The zoom isn't mainly for you to see your target better but for you to zero the aim at the distance which your target is at.

Making the iron sights adjustable shouldn't be hard. Adjusting the aim to compensate for the wind is pointless as the bullets wont be affected by the wind.

Ballistic kinetic energy: Bullet accuracy and damage are dependent on a number of factors such as wind resistance and distance to the target.

[olemissrebel 0]

You guys are too nit-picky. In real life you don't have time to adjust your iron sights. They are zeroed, yes, you are correct, at 300M. That's the farthest US Army infantry are trained to shoot at. The bullet doesn't drop enough to need to change the iron sights with anything between 1-300M. Anything further than that is just a waste of ammo. That's what precision (yes, it's called that in the army) weapons such as the m240B are for, to reach out & touch.

[Metal Heart 0]

Not everyone uses U.S rifles you know, there's a very good reason why AK47s for example have adjustable rear sights and it doesn't take more than 2 or 3 seconds to set preset elevations on them. Read Blakes post above.

[ThePredator 0]

I'd like to see sight adjustments for scopes for both wind and bullet drop. This adds alot to the tension before you can actually knock your target stiff.

Laser range finders would be awesome, It was a pain in the butt to guess target ranges in OFP without MilDot or known variables to calculate the distance.

When you know the range (either by LRF, MilDot or correctly implemented reticle range estimation) you can take your time to adjust the iron sights too.

In the end, it is a matter of time and preferences. I won't adjust my iron sights in a fierce firefight over distance, but to make a single shot count before all hell breaks loose on me.

For snipers it is most important to be able to estimate range (and wind). The point of aim changes within 100m to gain one shot kills, which is the way snipers work. Otherwise their psychological effect is none (one well placed lethal round will cause terror and fear, many unaimed rounds just suppression of the enemy).

So the adjustment of sights is not just a gameplay issue, it is a tactical decision every soldier / player should be able to make for himself.

I bet tankers would like to dial in target ranges to hit over great distances. If tank grenades got ballistic trajectories, that is.

I don't want to add a new topic for that, but it would be nice if you can cycle the bolt action yourself (like in Red Orchestra). This is another important feature to add for snipers like me (and OFP was the best sniping experience due to great distances to stalk your prey).

[dslyecxi 23]

You can dial the M16A2 from 300 meters to 800, in increments of 100, if I remember correctly. Beyond 300 meters is only supposed to be for full-squad suppression fire(i.e., your whole squad is spamming lead at targets at that range), if I remember correctly.

The M-16A2 sight can be set from 200-800 meters, and it's not in increments of 100. It's in clicks, for instance... 300 yards is the BZO (battlesight zero) setting, you drop down two clicks to get a 200 yard setting.

Also, the M-16A2 is quoted by the USMC to be effective for "point targets" out to 550 meters, "area targets" at 800 meters. Realistically, though, you get the most performance from the 5.56mm rounds when the target is close enough that the bullet is travelling above 2700 feet per second upon impact, as that's the velocity at which the round begins to exhibit the kind of dramatic fragmentation that has a massive impact on the wounding/killing capacity of the round. Depending on the length of the barrel and the bullet being used (M196 vs M855, for instance), this can be from 100 to 150 yards (or so, give or take).

Speaking strictly about the M-16A2/A4/M4 sights, people don't adjust their zeros in combat. You do your BZO, and that's that. Anything up to 300 yards can be engaged with a good BZO, the point of impact/point of aim corresponds very closely from 50 to 300 yards (meaning, it'd be a waste of time and effort to drop to a 200 yard sight setting if you already have a 300 yard zero, it'd move the point of impact inches at best, and unless you're doing extremely precise shooting, you don't need that kind of precision). Sights like ACOG's and such have bullet drop compensators (BDC's) integrated into their reticule patterns, so it's just a matter of holding high on the designated line that corresponds to the distance of the target you're engaging.

If elevation/windage adjustments are implemented, they should be intended for the use of snipers, not the "average" grunt. The average grunt should have an initial BZO that he sticks with for 99.999% of the fighting.

On that note, all reticule patterns should be calibrated such that the mil-dots can actually be used the way they're meant to be used. Or the sight pattern, for that matter. I can't stand looking through a BAS ACOG in OFP and seeing the BDC completely out of scale.

[galbaldy 0]

You can dial the M16A2 from 300 meters to 800, in increments of 100, if I remember correctly. Beyond 300 meters is only supposed to be for full-squad suppression fire(i.e., your whole squad is spamming lead at targets at that range), if I remember correctly.

The M-16A2 sight can be set from 200-800 meters, and it's not in increments of 100. It's in clicks, for instance... 300 yards is the BZO (battlesight zero) setting, you drop down two clicks to get a 200 yard setting.

Also, the M-16A2 is quoted by the USMC to be effective for "point targets" out to 550 meters, "area targets" at 800 meters. Realistically, though, you get the most performance from the 5.56mm rounds when the target is close enough that the bullet is travelling above 2700 feet per second upon impact, as that's the velocity at which the round begins to exhibit the kind of dramatic fragmentation that has a massive impact on the wounding/killing capacity of the round. Depending on the length of the barrel and the bullet being used (M196 vs M855, for instance), this can be from 100 to 150 yards (or so, give or take).

Speaking strictly about the M-16A2/A4/M4 sights, people don't adjust their zeros in combat. You do your BZO, and that's that. Anything up to 300 yards can be engaged with a good BZO, the point of impact/point of aim corresponds very closely from 50 to 300 yards (meaning, it'd be a waste of time and effort to drop to a 200 yard sight setting if you already have a 300 yard zero, it'd move the point of impact inches at best, and unless you're doing extremely precise shooting, you don't need that kind of precision). Sights like ACOG's and such have bullet drop compensators (BDC's) integrated into their reticule patterns, so it's just a matter of holding high on the designated line that corresponds to the distance of the target you're engaging.

If elevation/windage adjustments are implemented, they should be intended for the use of snipers, not the "average" grunt. The average grunt should have an initial BZO that he sticks with for 99.999% of the fighting.

On that note, all reticule patterns should be calibrated such that the mil-dots can actually be used the way they're meant to be used. Or the sight pattern, for that matter. I can't stand looking through a BAS ACOG in OFP and seeing the BDC completely out of scale.

True, but as you have seen from the latest video, the large expanse of terrain means that firefights will begin at distances greater than the normal 250, 350 meter engagement range.

Also, GPmachinegunners have to adjust their sights much more frequently since they operate at longer ranges than rifles or LMGs.

[dslyecxi 23]

True, but as you have seen from the latest video, the large expanse of terrain means that firefights will begin at distances greater than the normal 250, 350 meter engagement range.

Also, GPmachinegunners have to adjust their sights much more frequently since they operate at longer ranges than rifles or LMGs.

Yes, I agree that MG'ers should be able to mess with elevation adjustments as easily as they would be able to in reality. I wasn't thinking of them when writing the earlier post, else I'd have mentioned them as well.

You know, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is the proper modelling of M-203 sights and any sights that work on a similar principle. Meaning, you elevate the muzzle to line up the front sight post with whatever range you're trying to shoot for (which is indicated on the leaf sight for the 203, or if we want to get fancier, you could have the quadrant sight which is aimed in a different but similar fashion, without the use of the front sight post).

I've yet to see a game which properly models M-203 sights, might as well start with ArmA or Game2.

The same principle is employed for the Mk-19 aiming system, and I'm sure there are quite a few other weapon systems out there that utilize similar methods.

[ThePredator 0]

We'll see if there will be some changes in aiming. In some preview they said the iron sight view changed. But I doubt it will be much different from modded sights (colored textures).

3D-Sights are the best but most difficult solution. Don't even now if it is possible at all with such engine.

But this would just rock.

[Guest Ti0n3r]

It's 2006 so I'd say they will include 3D ironsights. And they have to if they want the game to be taken seriously. (In my opinion).

I'll keep my fingers crossed...

[ThePredator 0]

There are many things which should be in ArmA because of current possibilities.

Besides the improved visuals, they should add more options to tactical gameplay and realism. No game had a decent ballistic system for such long ranges. So gravity and wind should affect bullets, latter at distances above 300 m, that is.

There should be 3D sights and you should be able to support the weapon on edges, walls, trees et cetera. There should be weapon jams and correct reloading drills (with specific animations), there should be real tracer rounds (unlike the OFP "tracers") and there should be many features introduced in mods like artillery and vehicle interaction, rucksacks and so on.

But what really counts is the game to be released asap (without rushing the game, of course)

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Quote[/b] ]Besides the improved visuals, they should add more options to tactical gameplay and realism. No game had a decent ballistic system for such long ranges. So gravity and wind should affect bullets, latter at distances above 300 m, that is.

In ArmA, gravity and wind will affect bullets.

[ThePredator 0]

In ArmA, gravity and wind will affect bullets.

You sure or pure speculation?

Gravity already did affect bullets in OFP. But if wind is now a factor, a sniper must be able to adjust for windage, otherwise it would be hardcore to hit moving targets with some light breeze.

It's difficult enough, if the scope sway is still random in every stance. I hope they will introduce bipods or some other way of supporting the rifle in sitting and prone position.

Adding breathing and pulse would be perfect, this would take the long range shooting experience to a new level, not just for the hunter. The enemy will have better chances to survive if the shooter is not skilled but the shooter can discriminate even more with precise shots under such difficult circumstances.

[NeMeSiS 11]

In ArmA, gravity and wind will affect bullets.

You sure or pure speculation?

Its confirmed

[ThePredator 0]

That's great news. Thank you.

Well, I already like the way they changed good ole OFP.

Since I am not into vehicular battles, all that concerns me is infantry (actually unconventional) warfare.

And scoped rifles in OFP are as important to me as they are in my real life. I definitely suck in CQB or charging enemy positions. Stealth and sabotage all the way...and death from afar.

[Emberwolf 0]

In ArmA, gravity and wind will affect bullets.

You sure or pure speculation?

Its confirmed

Just wondering, where's the information on that?

[Guest Ti0n3r]

Placebo;

Quote[/b] ]Ballistic kinetic energy: Bullet accuracy and damage are dependent on a number of factors such as wind resistance and distance to the target.