The atmosphere

[Leopardi 0]

Alright, what do you think, will BIS forget the good atmosphere that we had in Original opflash, and concentrate too much in the looks and gfx of the game and putting some new content in the game? I'm pretty sure that they'll concentrate on the firefights and such and totally forget the atmosphere and a good plot, what made opflash so good.

[Dynamax 0]

what makes you so sure of anything?

we dont have much of anything in terms of true, real info on any aspect of the game other then the real basics like island size, campain, and some screen shots showing the new graphics changes over OFP.

as far as gameplay goes, we dont have any info and so we cant really start saying that it'll be like this or like that.

we are going to have to wait untill zero hour, befor we'll see anything worth disscussing.

[Leopardi 0]

Okay...I just have the feeling.. =) Almost every game have been ruined when making a sequel to it, don't know why.

[malick 0]

Armed Assault is "just" OFP with an updated engine. It's still original flashpoint, just a tad more crispy looking and more modern. It's not a new game built from scratch... So, as they said in their statement, ALL original content will be in, just updated, plus new data.

Malick

[Scrub 0]

Quote[/b] ]Malick Posted on Feb. 22 2006,05:35

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Armed Assault is "just" OFP with an updated engine. It's still original flashpoint, just a tad more crispy looking and more modern. It's not a new game built from scratch... So, as they said in their statement, ALL original content will be in, just updated, plus new data.

Very true.  But, to be fair, there have been statements about features they have been adding that have been above and beyond the original plans, including Mr. Bocan's experienced surprise at ArmA's progress.  Not saying anything to the negative (at all   ).  I just believe we'll get a bit more than an OPF facelift, and no less of an OFP atmosphere.

(Is this what you meant by 'new data'?  If so, sorry for the misinterpretation.)

[malick 0]

I believe ArmA to be more than a simple facelift, as you said. It's a facelift (graphics, DirectX 9, drawdistance), a brain surgery (AI) and a knee and backbone surgery (new scripting commands allowing more flexibility).

Malick

[-kelet0r 0]

To an extent while the real emotion that operation flashpoint created was intense fear - the game also had the power to be intensely frustrating

working into a good position only to be killed by an invisible sniper wasting an hours hard work is just one example of many of the difficulty of the game meaning many just abandoning it - i know too many who played up to after montignac and just binned the game because it became so unfair

If Arma were to include an ingame difficulty adjuster such as in HL2 or to offer more quick save options with maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming experience without losing the intensity and cold fear that the game was so excellent at generating

[dachrinne 0]

i just hope they made new FX sounds and weapon sounds ... thats one of the things i never liked in OFP. (and plz dont come with the argument that i can just replace them and be happy)

Quote[/b] ]i know too many who played up to after montignac and just binned the game because it became so unfair

thats the point ... war is unfair

[dmakatra 1]

To an extent while the real emotion that operation flashpoint created was intense fear - the game also had the power to be intensely frustrating

working into a good position only to be killed by an invisible sniper wasting an hours hard work is just one example of many of the difficulty of the game meaning many just abandoning it - i know too  many who played up to after montignac and just binned the game because it became so unfair

If Arma were to include an ingame difficulty adjuster such as in HL2 or to offer more quick save options with maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming experience without losing the intensity and cold fear that the game was so excellent at generating

Uh... Isn't the unforgiveness of the game the reason why we all love it so much? Why'd you want to remove that? Keep OFP/ArmA hardcore, so we never encounter any of them mainstream buggers that are currently playing BF2, CoD, CS or some other crap FPS.

Besides, Logitech makes a fortune out of OFP. Think of all the keyboards you've smashed because of that invisible sniper. We don't want to make Logitech go out of business, right?

[ck-claw 1]

Uh... Isn't the unforgiveness of the game the reason why we all love it so much? Why'd you want to remove that? Keep OFP/ArmA hardcore, so we never encounter any of them mainstream buggers that are currently playing BF2, CoD, CS or some other crap FPS.

Yepp i agree!!! the times it took me 10 maybe 15 time to complete a mission-just kept me coming back for more!!! The fact that you can actually try and complete that mission 10/15 times and learn from your mistakes each time is half the fun-no limits on how you do it!

[-kelet0r 0]

You see that's exactly what i don't want to hear - this incredibly annoying opf community elitism - 'our game is so tough only real fans will finish it'

Bullshit

I consider myself a gamer, not an Operation Flashpoint gamer and when I consider a game's merit, its ability to immerse me, to make me enjoy the game is key

Operation Flashpoint did achieve that but then minutes later it would destroy all of that immersion in a second by making the game so unfair, by forcing you to throw away possibly hours of work on a mission

Making a game accessible doesnt have to dumb it down or remove the challenge or destroy the immersion and fear - but it damn well does make the game better and more satisfying

[GBee 0]

$keletor, the game didn't force you to die ... you managed that by yourself.

OFP is a simulator and yes, it could be incredibly tough, but it was no more difficult or unfair than a real life war.

Instead of adapting the game to suit the mentalities of the arcade generation, players have to adapt to reality and learn that winning is about staying alive rather than endless replays.

OFP was very fair in this regard, in some missions you could proceed without completing the mission if the rest of your team was killed.

[Zorbtek 0]

This will be very important in AA, the enviorments are truly the only thing that keep the player sitting in their chairs. If trees waver in the wind, waterfalls sprinkle, birds chirp and thunder rumbles, you can expect something truly amazing.

BIS seems to have these aspects down in stone, hence the star constellations, shorelines depending on the season, and other things that made an appearance on the XBox version as well.

Fear was not the first feeling I got when playing this game. I got the feeling that: Holy crap, I'm this little guy in the belly of the beast. I guess that's scary in itself...

[Zerg 0]

OFP is a simulator and yes, it could be incredibly tough, but it was no more difficult or unfair than a real life war.

You dont pay 40 bucks to have a real life war. Infact you get the hell out of its way.

But OFP`s campaign is not terribly hard once you aquire the skills.

[dmakatra 1]

You see that's exactly what i don't want to hear - this incredibly annoying opf community elitism - 'our game is so tough only real fans will finish it'

Bullshit

I consider myself a gamer, not an Operation Flashpoint gamer and when I consider a game's merit, its ability to immerse me, to make me enjoy the game is key

Operation Flashpoint did achieve that but then minutes later it would destroy all of that immersion in a second by making the game so unfair, by forcing you to throw away possibly hours of work on a mission

Making a game accessible doesnt have to dumb it down or remove the challenge or destroy the immersion and fear - but it damn well does make the game better and more satisfying

I considered myself a gamer once too. But unfortunately, the worst thing that could happen the gaming industry (as well as countless other industries) is that it has grown large. I miss the hardcore games from the good old days when only a small amount of people played games, when the wasn't any game ads on the telly, when games where innovative and inspiring.

In many ways the gaming industry has been dumbed down. BIS and a few other indie developers are all what is left of an industry that once was flourishing with creativity. Now all we get are braindead FPS' and RTS' with the same system that has been copied again and again and again.

OFP is for hardcore gamers. I wouldn't call hardcore gamers elitistic, I would call them a minority. Nowadays hardcore gamers are rare. The majority has got their Call of Duty, their Counter-Strike, their Command & Conquer: Just Another Shitty Title That Is Just The Same As The Previous One But With Some Different Units And Different Graphics, their Battlefield 2, their Quake IV, their F.E.A.R., I mean, just pick a title! What have we got? Darwinia, Silent Hunter, Perimiter and a few other lonesome, nearly unknown, titles.

And of course OFP, and soon ArmA.

Since the mainstream majority is, well, the majority it is of course natural that they should get their fair, and bigger, share of the games released. But in a society everyone should be pleased, even the minorities, through compromises. We should get our cut of the games. However, our cut seems to become smaller and smaller for each passing year. I don't want to see ArmA/OFP go from the hardcore cut to the mainstream cut. Do you?

[Hekezu 0]

OFP is for hardcore gamers. I wouldn't call hardcore gamers elitistic, I would call them a minority. Nowadays hardcore gamers are rare. The majority has got their Call of Duty, their Counter-Strike, their Command & Conquer: Just Another Shitty Title That Is Just The Same As The Previous One But With Some Different Units And Different Graphics, their Battlefield 2, their Quake IV, their F.E.A.R., I mean, just pick a title! What have we got? Darwinia, Silent Hunter, Perimiter and a few other lonesome, nearly unknown, titles.

And of course OFP, and soon ArmA.

Since the mainstream majority is, well, the majority it is of course natural that they should get their fair, and bigger, share of the games released. But in a society everyone should be pleased, even the minorities, through compromises. We should get our cut of the games. However, our cut seems to become smaller and smaller for each passing year. I don't want to see ArmA/OFP go from the hardcore cut to the mainstream cut. Do you?

I agree. And the truth is that most of OFP players, or other so called hardcore gamers, are more mature than majority of gamers. Well, that was a subjective truth, but that's the way I see it.

OFP requires patience, the thing many other gamers don't have. This leads into other positive things, such as mature conversations and good co-operation. Patience keeps you from rushing to death and it is the thing that keeps you trying even though you fail.

My friends often ask me, why do I like realistic games. I usually say that there isn't such thing as a realistic game. But there are games that try to push towards realism, games such as OFP. Realistic enviroments require realistic action in order to survive. Missions can be harder and learning curve can be steep. But it is the pleasure of succeeding that keeps me playing realistic games. For example, killing someone in OFP can be more rewarding than killing someone in Unreal Tournament.

And yes, I do feel a little elitist about being a hardcore gamer, or atleast an OFP player. Maybe it is because I'm proud that I am not a mainstream gamer.

It is pretty hard for developers and publishers to target minorities. The only remaining option besides developing ArmA to be the next Battlefield is enlarging the target group of realism friends. This can be done by advertising ArmA and letting people try it out (DEMO). There are a lot of players that would love OFP and ofcourse ArmA, but they just haven't heard about them.

And about the atmosphere, I think that story telling was pretty nice in Resistance and I'm happy that Mr Bocan is working on ArmA. And there should be a lot of atmosphere if the game has any realism in it because real warfare (or atleast firefights) tends to be atmospheric.

[guyguy1 0]

I agree with GBee. Skeletor, there are many more possibilities in OFP than any other fps game to date. You probably think that OFP is unfair because you made some unecessary maneuvers and engagements. In fact, when I played after montignac, i completed it with relative ease. I am not a hardcore OFP gamer, i play CS, BF2, Empire earth 2, and many more- and i love them all. However, OFP is by far the most realistic war simulator ever developed (aside from VBS), and if you think about it, an hour isn't a long time for an After-Montignac type mission. IRL it would take much more than that, and the risk of being killed would be much greater. OFP is definitely not unfair, it's in fact the opposite. If you think that the realism in OFP is too harsh then i suggest you look up single player cheats for OFP and play with those. ArmA will be even more detailed and allow many more possibilities to be played through, so if you think that OFP is unfair then i suggest you not play ArmA and play more accessible games like call of duty, or use singleplayer cheats.

[Scrub 0]

Aaahh $keletor The Frustrated, (I understand) 'This too shall pass'.  You might find yourself getting angry in the next few months, coming back to beat the stupid piece of software and get hooked again (I did).  

Observe, Adapt, Outwit.  I didn't know these things were possible in a computer game until about 2 weeks after the OFP demo was posted.  That's what appeals to my better nature.  Putting myself in an (hostile?) environment and doing my best to achieve my objectives - and blow stuff up for the fun of it, of course...  Oh, and sightseeing... And letting my little girl drive the bus around a huge island  

[back on topic] As said a bajillion times, the atmosphere and realism, among others is what makes OFP.  Period.  Many other games are around for the various tastes of player.  

Why make OFP like them?

[Metal Heart 0]

Quote[/b] ]

You see that's exactly what i don't want to hear - this incredibly annoying opf community elitism - 'our game is so tough only real fans will finish it'

Bullshit

Well there's the cadet mode, extented armour, 3rd person view, map markers, bullet tracers, extented hud info etc, so that's not exactly true.

Quote[/b] ]

Making a game accessible doesnt have to dumb it down or remove the challenge or destroy the immersion and fear...

Making things like unlimited quick saves would ruin the atmosphere and challenge completely, how can you fear of dying if it doesn't cost you nothing but one key press?

Quote[/b] ]... - but it damn well does make the game better and more satisfying

Maybe for some people.

[Jezz 0]

we already have quick saves just not so quick

on cadet the game isnt actully that hard i found H&D's difficult like mountain in comparison

[Albert Schweitzer 10]

To an extent while the real emotion that operation flashpoint created was intense fear - the game also had the power to be intensely frustrating

working into a good position only to be killed by an invisible sniper wasting an hours hard work is just one example of many of the difficulty of the game meaning many just abandoning it - i know too many who played up to after montignac and just binned the game because it became so unfair

If Arma were to include an ingame difficulty adjuster such as in HL2 or to offer more quick save options with maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming experience without losing the intensity and cold fear that the game was so excellent at generating

Uh... Isn't the unforgiveness of the game the reason why we all love it so much? Why'd you want to remove that? Keep OFP/ArmA hardcore, so we never encounter any of them mainstream buggers that are currently playing BF2, CoD, CS or some other crap FPS.

Besides, Logitech makes a fortune out of OFP. Think of all the keyboards you've smashed because of that invisible sniper. We don't want to make Logitech go out of business, right?

Absolutely. That is the reason why I loved Operation Flashpoint so much, you realy realy had to be cautious because any stupid and unplanned action could cost your life and ruin up to two hours of playing. I dont want to say that I love to be treated unfair but I need this pressure in order to get into the right mood of fear, stress and fear of losing my life!

Any other game is not so tough to crack for me, I think I am creative so I experiment over and over again, no matter how often I die I will find a silly solution that works around the capabilities of the AI. In Flashpoint I dont have the time nor the save-points to test out the stupidity of the AI whenever I want to. I have to guess their reaction, and that is, in my eyes, tactical thinking! In other games it is just creativity, map routine and a little bit of patience.

What would be the purpose of a military simulation if it would make your enemy weaker than he actually is? Just so kids and beginners dont feel so frustrated? To make OFP more family friendly?

If you are beginner then you have to learn that lesson and simply die several hundred times during the first missions! This is a good lesson for the kiddies to continue playing their stuff and for the lovers of simulation to try harder and one day be realy proud to succeeed!

Lunch time!

[-kelet0r 0]

Dont take this as a rant against Operation Flashpoint - i loved it to bits and played it for hours on end and Armed Assault has me more hyped than any other game coming

My point was that OPeration Flashpoint for all its merits had a tendency to punish rather than reward the gamer to the detriment of the gaming experience

the difficulty levels at times didnt reflect the game at times - a game should be all about the gameplay not 'wow it only took me 20 hours to complete that 20 minute level'

a hardcore and an expert level on a par with Opf is a necessity just like oxygen but what about a beginners level - where there are quicksaves where you mess around, explore, do all the things you want to do without the punishments that the expert level has

operation flashpoint had the potential to be both immersive and FUN - if you';ve ever played the custom maps included in the game you will see that they were made more for having a blast rather than worrying whether running another 10 m will mean restarting the level

A compromise can be reached - I want the simulation experience but at the same time i also want to have the option to change the difficulty ingame like in halflife 2 for want of a better example in order to just get the most out of the game

Surely that wouldnt lose any of what made OPF great - i have no wish to take away the hardcore nature of the game, but offering the ability to play the game at a much more accessible level is NOT to much to ask

Am I the only one who thinks that Armed Assault being the most successful game of 2006 is a good thing?

[dmakatra 1]

So you mean like having difficult levels similar to those in Elite?

[ade_mcc 0]

Realism has been mentioned a few times in this and other threads. If it was purely realism that we wanted, then we'd all be playing Combat Mission. But this thread is about atmosphere and After Montignac has it a plenty. Its just the feeling of being part of a much bigger operation at some parts, and then feeling so alone. Its great and very emotional.

[CsonkaPityu 0]

Quote[/b] ]Am I the only one who thinks that Armed Assault being the most successful game of 2006 is a good thing?

If being successful means turning the game into a pile of Battlefield 2 then, yes.

You are looking for Operation: Flashpoint 2, developed by Codemasters. Besides there are tons of games out there for your kind of people who just wanna have fun and stuff, play Far Cry for example. What i want is a game that makes me think about what the damn i'm doing not one that makes me hit the F6 button constantly.

No offense meant but i don't understand what you wanna do to the game.

Quote[/b] ]maybe an ingame punishment such as restricting access to a new weapon in the next level would be a fair way of trading off the gaming

"Collect all of the hidden gold coins on the level to gain access to a new flamethrower!!!" ... eh sorry about that bit of mockery...